Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Retro Games > Early FPS Megathread: the kids need to learn about TekWar sooner or later

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A Fancy 400 lbs: Jul 24, 2008

Just wait til Brutal Doom goes on the Steam Workshop for only $20 to celebrate v20. :v:

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:35

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# ? May 21, 2024 04:24

Bread Pudding: Aug 7, 2010

Dominic White posted:

Going on what I read on the official facebook page, apparently v20 has scaleable gore (it's still pretty messy at even half blood, and downright silly at 4x)

I hope at max gore it's just like the old Mortal Kombat brutalities and zombiemen explode into eight arms, eight legs, four ribcages and four heads.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:40

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Dominic White posted:

It also comes with a 30-map campaign of its own, so those worried about it messing with map balance don't even have to use Doom's maps!

I am so down with this.

Also, is Going Down compatible-ish with BD? I'll try it without, but I'd like to give it a whirl with it, too.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:44

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I am so down with this.

Also, is Going Down compatible-ish with BD? I'll try it without, but I'd like to give it a whirl with it, too.

It should be. It's very tightly balanced as-is, though - I just used Smooth Doom (which updated recently, too) to spruce it up a little.

It's a pity that Valiant wasn't even compatible with Smooth Doom due to some sassy things it did with tweaked mancubi and SS trooper units.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:47

Rupert Buttermilk: Apr 15, 2007; 🚣RowboatMan: ❄️Freezing time🕰️ is an old P.I. 🥧trick...

Dominic White posted:

It should be. It's very tightly balanced as-is, though - I just used Smooth Doom (which updated recently, too) to spruce it up a little.

It's a pity that Valiant wasn't even compatible with Smooth Doom due to some sassy things it did with tweaked mancubi and SS trooper units.

I'll check out Smooth Doom. Does that work with GZDoom?

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:48

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Bread Pudding posted:

I hope at max gore it's just like the old Mortal Kombat brutalities and zombiemen explode into eight arms, eight legs, four ribcages and four heads.

I think it just adjusts the amount of blood particles and splatter effects. At 4x, enemies are basically giant pressurized cans of ketchup.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:49

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I'll check out Smooth Doom. Does that work with GZDoom?

Yeah. It's just a pure graphical upgrade mod, and it's really good for the most part. Nice way to spruce things up a bit for when you're running tightly tuned vanilla maps, or mods close to it.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 20:52

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

Rupert Buttermilk posted:

I am so down with this.

Also, is Going Down compatible-ish with BD? I'll try it without, but I'd like to give it a whirl with it, too.

Going Down apparently has a bug where the final boss doesn't work properly if you're using a gameplay mod, but there's probably a patch for Brutal Doom somewhere.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 21:05

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

Elliotw2 posted:

Going Down apparently has a bug where the final boss doesn't work properly

This is because the final boss is a DEHACKED creation, which reclaims and replaces frames from monsters and objects not used in the other levels, for maximum source port compatibility. DECORATE lets you add new frames without much of a thought, which causes DEHACKED creatures to poo poo themselves and turn into bugged out messes.

Not much you can do about it, sadly. It's the nature of the beast.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 21:13

Uncle Kitchener: Nov 18, 2009; BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
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So, DemonSteele is what Daikatan should've been? Nice, I'll give it a try.

I always hoped there would be a FPS with a superior melee system to Necrovision and this seems to be the game.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 21:28

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

uncleKitchener posted:

So, DemonSteele is what Daikatan should've been? Nice, I'll give it a try.

I always hoped there would be a FPS with a superior melee system to Necrovision and this seems to be the game.

Jedi Outcast and Blade Symphony and Chivalry all have pretty cool melee systems for FPS games.

I need to play Necrovision, I was just thinking about it last week...

# ? Apr 24, 2015 21:42

laserghost: Feb 12, 2014; ^{trust me, I'm a cat.}

The trick to play NecroVision is to melee the gently caress out of everything, with knives, kicks, shovel and only occasional bullet to the head. Sadly some levels are boring-rear end Gears of War-like "cover and wait for time to shoot" bullshit. But somewhere in the middle you get the Demonic Glove or whatever it's called, and everything gets kicked into high gear.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 22:12

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Necrovision is such a weird game. It practically switches genre and setting altogether at the halfway point, switching from Weird War 1 to Painkiller With Techno-Vampires.

# ? Apr 24, 2015 23:00

Dominic White: Nov 1, 2005

Looks like there's one last delay - Brutal Doom V20 won't be out until June 5th.

But here's the trailer, and it's looking rather impressive, in all honesty! The maps look like an interesting bunch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSzYliSASKc

Edit: Lots of new stuff in there. Demons fighting while wounded, akimbo assault rifles (and plasma!?), what looks like a bunch of open-plan urban maps, some with allied marines, new gore effects.

Also, that slaughtermap'ish bit near the end? Apparently the guy only has a pretty crappy i3 CPU, so that + recording at 1080p/60fps = still playable? Yep, huge performance boosts.

Thyrork posted:

E: Heh, watched the trailer, it still has that loud as gently caress laugh that always grated on me.

If I remember right, I think you can turn off the voice. It always seemed fitting for him to be bellowing at the top of his lungs, though - it's meant to be the roided out meat-mountain from the Doom comic, after all.

Dominic White fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Apr 25, 2015

# ? Apr 25, 2015 01:16

Thyrork: Apr 21, 2010; "COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.; Slippery Tilde

uncleKitchener posted:

So, DemonSteele is what Daikatan should've been? Nice, I'll give it a try.

I always hoped there would be a FPS with a superior melee system to Necrovision and this seems to be the game.

Shadow Warrior, the new one, is pretty good on the swordplay as well.

E: Heh, watched the trailer, it still has that loud as gently caress laugh that always grated on me. :haw:

Thyrork fucked around with this message at 01:41 on Apr 25, 2015

# ? Apr 25, 2015 01:37

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

After the Soldier of Fortune talk a while ago, I decided to watch some Youtube videos of the first game and drat does it have some satisfying and meaty weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_yEn8zwxc

Listen to that machine gun and Desert Eagle; they're loving awesome.

However, watching the videos did bring back a major problem I had with the game; it would let you choose whatever weapons you wanted, but would railroad you into using certain weapons in a mission because there was very little or no ammo for things like the Shotgun. Like, in the Japan mission, the game essnetially made you use the Suppressed MAC-11 and the 5.56mm chambered weapons because enemies only dropped ammo for them, while the Iraq missions push you towards using the Desert Eagle, weapons chambered in 5.56mm, and Rocket Launcher. Letting you choose what weapons to bring at the start of a mission is pointless if you're just going to force the player to use the same weapons chambered in 5.56mm and a "speciality" weapon. It would've been much better if they put universal ammo pickups in the game so that you can use whatever you wanted throughout the game.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 02:39

A Fancy 400 lbs: Jul 24, 2008

Dominic White posted:

Necrovision is such a weird game. It practically switches genre and setting altogether at the halfway point, switching from Weird War 1 to Painkiller With Techno-Vampires.

Luckily, both of them are amazing settings!

# ? Apr 25, 2015 03:25

Karasu Tengu: Feb 16, 2011; Humble Tengu Newspaper Reporter

closeted republican posted:

After the Soldier of Fortune talk a while ago, I decided to watch some Youtube videos of the first game and drat does it have some satisfying and meaty weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_yEn8zwxc

Listen to that machine gun and Desert Eagle; they're loving awesome.

However, watching the videos did bring back a major problem I had with the game; it would let you choose whatever weapons you wanted, but would railroad you into using certain weapons in a mission because there was very little or no ammo for things like the Shotgun. Like, in the Japan mission, the game essnetially made you use the Suppressed MAC-11 and the 5.56mm chambered weapons because enemies only dropped ammo for them, while the Iraq missions push you towards using the Desert Eagle, weapons chambered in 5.56mm, and Rocket Launcher. Letting you choose what weapons to bring at the start of a mission is pointless if you're just going to force the player to use the same weapons chambered in 5.56mm and a "speciality" weapon. It would've been much better if they put universal ammo pickups in the game so that you can use whatever you wanted throughout the game.

There are ammo crates and stuff that give you ammo for everything. I remember bringing the SPAS-12 for 90% of the game and never really running out of ammo. The only weapons that really suffer from not being enemy equipped/in the world are the heavy weapons.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 03:51

Uncle Kitchener: Nov 18, 2009; BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
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Zaphod42 posted:

Jedi Outcast and Blade Symphony and Chivalry all have pretty cool melee systems for FPS games.

I need to play Necrovision, I was just thinking about it last week...

I made a whole post about this a couple pages back, but I love NV despite its shortcoming and it does have a lot of those.

Om the other hand I have all these sharp and blunt things I can murder things with.

uncleKitchener posted:

Since there's been some Duke and Wolf talk, I thought I'd go back to one of my favorite games, Necrovision.

Since it's the centenary of The Great War, I decided to come back to this game.

Personally, I consider this to be next successor to Duke 3D after SiN. Obviously, it has loads of silly issues and doesn't give a very good first impression in early chapters, but once you beat the first major boss of the game and get the claw weapon, the game dynamics change completely.

Some of my favorite things about this game are the melee and close range combat mechanics. You got your might boots, bayonets, small throwing knives, clubs, an almighty vampire claw that turns into a combine harvester when dealing with crowds, an akimbo weapon dynamic mixing melee and ranged weapons and a pretty good selection of weapons.

Complimenting that (sort of) is the flawed but really fun combo mechanic that builds up two bars; one is the yellow meter for bullet time and sprinting (also used to replenish health if you're under 25%) and the combo meter that builds up with different types of kills. With positional damage and different weapon stats, you can mix things up, ultimately becoming a real killing machine. The expansion adds new weapons like the Blood flare gun and a spiked rod.

Problem is that the game never explains these mechanics at all and there's no way of figuring out how this system works unless you're actually willing to sit down and figure it out on your own like a gaijin playing a Japanese game while being completely nihon-illiterate.

Once you get the claw, you start learning new spells, ranging from fire, Ice to poison needles and projectiles, all of which use mana. Mixing up ranged, close combat and magic attacks really speeds up the game. Actually managing all three things turns it into a completely different game, because you get to have options you really don't have in a lot of other shooters at all.

Another cool thing about this game is the sheer scale of the game thanks to the Painkiller engine. The levels end up being very large in scale and loads of secrets hidden throughout levels. Levels were scaled down a bit in the expansion, but it was still a big game like the original Necrovision.

A lot of weapons from early chapters are really not that accurate with the exception of the pistol and the rifles, which actually end up complimenting close to mid range combat more in the trenches. From chapter 4 onwards you get the next tier of weapons and unfortunately the guns from earlier chapters end up cluttering up the weapon selection screen a bit, but it's not that bad.

Another really cool thing about the game is the vehicles sections where you get to ride a mech on a few occasions and a dragon for two chapter. The dragon sections were the only thing I felt were on rails, but you get some side objectives where you go on foot to deactivate thingamajigs and get more waves and monster closets, so they're generally pretty fun.

Challenge mode is pretty fun once you get used to the mechanics and learn the game. I definitely recommend it after the first playthrough.

One thing that made no sense was the story of the game, a batshit clusterfuck of all kinds of different horror and action elements. You start in a WWI setting in the Battle of Somme and you move onto a vampire underworld all the way down to hell. The game tries too hard to push some themes and elements ranging from the cliche 'war is hell', then completely ignoring it for Lovecraftian horror and onto Doom E4. I had to ask the game artist about the setting to actually make sense of who is who and what everyone is fighting for.

Another weak point of the game are the boss fights which can be very random. In one playthrough they're following their patterns and in another they behave very randomly. I think this may have something to do with the variable framerate of the game, but that's just one of my many theories about why this game can be so random.

If you're a fan of Duke3D, RTCW and Painkiller, I definitely recommend this and the expansion, Lost Company.

closeted republican posted:

After the Soldier of Fortune talk a while ago, I decided to watch some Youtube videos of the first game and drat does it have some satisfying and meaty weapons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL_yEn8zwxc

Listen to that machine gun and Desert Eagle; they're loving awesome.

However, watching the videos did bring back a major problem I had with the game; it would let you choose whatever weapons you wanted, but would railroad you into using certain weapons in a mission because there was very little or no ammo for things like the Shotgun. Like, in the Japan mission, the game essnetially made you use the Suppressed MAC-11 and the 5.56mm chambered weapons because enemies only dropped ammo for them, while the Iraq missions push you towards using the Desert Eagle, weapons chambered in 5.56mm, and Rocket Launcher. Letting you choose what weapons to bring at the start of a mission is pointless if you're just going to force the player to use the same weapons chambered in 5.56mm and a "speciality" weapon. It would've been much better if they put universal ammo pickups in the game so that you can use whatever you wanted throughout the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5maaOjzXo

Charlie Brooker's review of the game pretty much sold me on the game back in the game and the subway level is still one of my favourite FPS levels of all time just because you're in an 80s action setting gunning bad guns down like you're the Punisher or some action hero.

I really wish they game could come out a digital service if it's not in some legal hell.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 06:02

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

Elliotw2 posted:

There are ammo crates and stuff that give you ammo for everything. I remember bringing the SPAS-12 for 90% of the game and never really running out of ammo. The only weapons that really suffer from not being enemy equipped/in the world are the heavy weapons.

Really? I don't remember finding any of those.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 06:34

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

uncleKitchener posted:

I really wish they game could come out a digital service if it's not in some legal hell.

It's in one of the lesser legal hells. The developer and publisher (Raven and Activision) are still alive and well, and there's no licensed music or whatever that usually gums up the works, but they do use the name and likeness of an actual mercenary and of Soldier of Fortune magazine, so they'd have to renegotiate all that I suppose.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 07:12

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

uncleKitchener posted:

I made a whole post about this a couple pages back, but I love NV despite its shortcoming and it does have a lot of those.

Om the other hand I have all these sharp and blunt things I can murder things with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y5maaOjzXo

Charlie Brooker's review of the game pretty much sold me on the game back in the game and the subway level is still one of my favourite FPS levels of all time just because you're in an 80s action setting gunning bad guns down like you're the Punisher or some action hero.

I really wish they game could come out a digital service if it's not in some legal hell.

The whole thing is a mixture of late 80s and 90s action flicks. 80s stuff includes the main bad guy being a white supremacist from South Africa and an episode that takes place in Japan, while the 90s stuff is things like going to Kosovo. an abandonded base in Siberia, and loving Iraq.

SOF2, whicle techically better, tried to go more for the BLACK OPS TACTICAL feel, which ruined the cheesy charm that the original had. I blame Counter-Strike.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 07:24

Jblade: Sep 5, 2006

SOF2 suffered from having dull as gently caress level design where everything was just a hot mess of grey and boring corridors. Even the jungle level was pretty blah.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 08:37

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

Jblade posted:

SOF2 suffered from having dull as gently caress level design where everything was just a hot mess of grey and boring corridors. Even the jungle level was pretty blah.

SOF2's problems are that the maps are dull and it doesn't have any of the charm that the original game has. The gore feels more like a legacy thing from SOF1 that doesn't actually fit the rest of the game, which is an early-2000s realistic game. The weapons are fun but it's not as exciting as gunning down a heavily-armored Iraqi with a beefy-sounding Desert Eagle or blowing white supremasists away with a shotgun that sounds like a cannon when it's fired.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 08:50

SCheeseman: Apr 23, 2003

The Kins posted:

It's in one of the lesser legal hells. The developer and publisher (Raven and Activision) are still alive and well, and there's no licensed music or whatever that usually gums up the works, but they do use the name and likeness of an actual mercenary and of Soldier of Fortune magazine, so they'd have to renegotiate all that I suppose.

I'd be okay with them ripping all the licensed stuff out. Soldier of Fortune doesn't need any more money, nor do they deserve it.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 09:16

Guillermus: Dec 28, 2009

SoF 2 had that level generator wich was kinda nice but as I posted earlier, SoF1 multiplayer was absolutely fantastic. Set up always run ON (shift key will make you walk) so you can sprint forever, fast as quake, lots of ammo pickups on the maps and fast respawn. Getting kills with nutshots was a plus.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 09:32

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

SwissCM posted:

I'd be okay with them ripping all the licensed stuff out. Soldier of Fortune doesn't need any more money, nor do they deserve it.

Removing the SoF stuff would be easy (just replace any textures that mention SoF with new ones), but actually making the textures and getting rid of Mullins would take far more time and money than a company like Activision would be willing to do.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 09:39

SCheeseman: Apr 23, 2003

closeted republican posted:

Removing the SoF stuff would be easy (just replace any textures that mention SoF with new ones), but actually making the textures and getting rid of Mullins would take far more time and money than a company like Activision would be willing to do.

It'd take less time and money than re-negotiating the license.

Which is probably why it hasn't been released digitally.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 09:56

closeted republican: Sep 9, 2005

SwissCM posted:

It'd take less time and money than re-negotiating the license.

Which is probably why it hasn't been released digitally.

Basically, any option requires Activision to shell out money besides the usual for getting it on digital distribution platforms, which means there's no way in hell we'll see the old SOF games on sites like Steam or GOG.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 10:11

Tim Chuma: Dec 19, 2009

Cat Mattress posted:

The most interesting Terminator game from Bethesda is the first one, called just The Terminator. It was basically a GTA game, written entirely in assembly. It looks pretty awful, but you just have to admire the sheer spergery that went into creating it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ix9iD64pV4

They also made The Terminator 2029 which was basically an old-school dungeon-crawler (moving square by square on a grid).

Then they made Rampage, Future Shock, and SkyNET.

I remember seeing the Terminator game reviewed in C+VG back when I used the buy the magazine regularly (even the website shut down now). I did try to buy Future Shock but it was very buggy and crashed my computer a lot.

I actually upgraded my computer to a gaming rig so I could have better performance editing photos and such, might get around to playing games one day. Even checking if Grezzo 2 does not explode my computer which it did last time.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 14:26

Nokiaman: Mar 2, 2013

I just started playing SiN and oh man the death animations are so satisfying so are the double pistols and shotgun. Wonder why the pistols were absent in the sequel

Also I don't know why, but the urban areas feel so DX1-like. The puzzles are also pretty fun and neither stupidly hard or easy.
I should've played this game earlier :v:

# ? Apr 25, 2015 14:41

Flannelette: Jan 17, 2010

Dominic White posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSzYliSASKc

I'm very impressed by the amount of new sprites that have been made, maybe more here than if you added all the character sprites from every 90s 2.5D game together even?

# ? Apr 25, 2015 14:46

Thyrork: Apr 21, 2010; "COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.; Slippery Tilde

Do you want to know what magic feels like? Smashing an overcharged hammer into a cyber demon in Demonsteele after spending the entire charge time gliding around it like some kind of super angel ninja. :fuckoff:

Oh and by the way, idle when playing demonsteele, one of the idle animations in particular is adorable. :3:

Thyrork fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Apr 25, 2015

# ? Apr 25, 2015 16:19

Segmentation Fault: Jun 7, 2012

Go into Iron Maiden mode and kamehameha a cyberdemon. It's loving atomized.

Speaking of Iron Maiden who do we have to pay and how much do we have to pay them to get someone to animate Hae-Lin transforming into the Iron Maiden, Sailor Moon-style?

# ? Apr 25, 2015 16:22

Thyrork: Apr 21, 2010; "COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.; Slippery Tilde

Segmentation Fault posted:

Go into Iron Maiden mode and kamehameha a cyberdemon. It's loving atomized.

Speaking of Iron Maiden who do we have to pay and how much do we have to pay them to get someone to animate Hae-Lin transforming into the Iron Maiden, Sailor Moon-style?

Oh my god I just did this. :magical:

HOW DEEP DOES THIS BLOODY MOD GO?

You know the hammer has a ranged attack too right? Press and hold left mouse then right to fry 'em. :getin:

Drains soul energy!

Thyrork fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Apr 25, 2015

# ? Apr 25, 2015 16:25

Uncle Kitchener: Nov 18, 2009; BALLSBALLSBALLSBALLS
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How do you actually use this mod? Do you place the pack in whatever sourceport folder you're using or is there more to it?

# ? Apr 25, 2015 16:44

Catalyst-proof: May 11, 2011; better waste some time with you

Okay, clearly I need to pick up Demonsteele again. Last time I tried I got two levels into Scythe 2 (which I thought the mod was basically balanced against) and all I did was bounce around haphazardly, run into walls, and die.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 17:13

The Kins: Oct 2, 2004

uncleKitchener posted:

How do you actually use this mod? Do you place the pack in whatever sourceport folder you're using or is there more to it?

1.) Drag and drop the PK3 onto your ZDoom or GZDoom EXE.
2.) Press F1 in game to learn how to play.
3.) Pretend you're playing a Character Action Game
4.) Slice and dice until your heart stops

# ? Apr 25, 2015 17:25

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Nokiaman posted:

I just started playing SiN and oh man the death animations are so satisfying so are the double pistols and shotgun. Wonder why the pistols were absent in the sequel
Also I don't know why, but the urban areas feel so DX1-like. The puzzles are also pretty fun and neither stupidly hard or easy.
I should've played this game earlier

Don't forget that in SiN your actions in earlier levels can lead to changes as severe as completely skipping one of the levels later on and skipping significant chunks of other ones. The old GameFAQs walkthroughs for it have decent info on what changes based on what.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 18:26

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# ? May 21, 2024 04:24

LvK: Feb 27, 2006; FIVE STARS!!

horse mans posted:

Okay, clearly I need to pick up Demonsteele again. Last time I tried I got two levels into Scythe 2 (which I thought the mod was basically balanced against) and all I did was bounce around haphazardly, run into walls, and die.

Ohhhh Scythe 2! I tried it with Scythe 1 and thought it was spammy and unfun.

It still hasn't clicked for me but it's definitely way better and rad on Scythe 2.

# ? Apr 25, 2015 18:40

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