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Single Tight Female posted:The last couple of times they've been mentioned, City and Mall of Horror have been lumped together. Is City just a straight upgrade or something? Looks like Mall is older and pretty much out of print but just checking. I've only played mall, city is by most accounts a bit more complicated and larger without necessarily being better, but it is still mostly the same game with the same good parts. And yes, easier to find, mall is very out of print.
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Apr 25, 2015 00:55
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After playing 1 full game of Galaxy-Trucker we went ahead and added all expansion tiles and adventure cards, althouh we're still too babyish for Rough Roads and Cruel Machinations we had a great time. Galaxy trucker is still good, yo.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:06
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Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? On a related note, what are some good deckbuilding games to move on to after Dominion?
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Apr 25, 2015 01:17
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Rutibex posted:It's like people getting upset about large nosed Jewish caricatures, in an economic game about conducting the holocaust most efficiently. It could be like Last Will, first person to get rid off all his meeples wins.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:17
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Zurui posted:Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? The stand alone Ascension expansions are good fun. The base game is a bit dull. It's a very different experience though, since you're drafting from a random row of 5 cards that change every time a card is bought.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:23
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Zurui posted:Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? Smash Up is boring and random with an appealing theme and simple rules. I'd recommend it for casual play only as a gateway game. I like Blood Bowl Team Manager better, despite being probably just as random. WH40k Conquest is probably the best game of that type of area control (location control? I dunno) that I know of. For other good area control type games, I'd recommend Tammany Hall or Dominant Species, but both are waaaaay harder than Smash Up. Depends on your group, really. People recommended Eminent Domain, but only with the expansion. Mage Knight is probably my favorite deckbuilder, but it's also way more complicated than Dominion. Dominion has lasting power and is believed by many to be the best deckbuilder, as evident by the discussion in this thread. Anything with a market row is trash unless you're playing it on your phone/tablet while in transit/pooping.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:36
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Zurui posted:Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? It's complete poo poo. quote:On a related note, what are some good deckbuilding games to move on to after Dominion? More Dominion. Seriously. Unless you've exhausted all the expansions, there is nothing to see another pure deckbuilder. And even if you've exhausted all the expansions, all you'll see in other deckbuilders is a rearranging of the deck chairs. Except for Eminent Domain. That genuinely does do something completely different. The real answer is hybrids like Mage Knight, Mythotopia or A Study in Emerald, that take deckbuilding and integrate it into a broader game. Trains is babby's first hybrid.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:38
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Zurui posted:Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? Smash Up is OK but not good, it has a lot of downtime and also one of the same problems as multiplayer Magic: you usually can't do anything on other players turns but sometimes you can. Definitely play with random combos. I think it needs tweaks to deal with length or downtime, right now I'll occasionally play it since the person I know with it likes Munchkin (and it's much better than that) but would basically never suggest it.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:38
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Zurui posted:On a related note, what are some good deckbuilding games to move on to after Dominion? Puzzle Strike?
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Apr 25, 2015 01:45
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You can also try Quarriors, which mixes deck building with dice rolling. Haven't played it myself. Legendary was recommended to me, the Marvel themed deck builder. My suggestion though is Dominion Adventures, just came out and it rules.
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Apr 25, 2015 01:57
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Gutter Owl posted:I honestly find the theme a bit off-putting, but here's the thing about theme: You can depict a system, and even fictitiously engage with a system, without morally condoning it. War games have been doing this for generations. Most people playing Totaler Krieg aren't piloting the Third Reich to demonstrate the superiority of the Nazi ethos. I don't presume to speak for a whole people about this, but I am actually half Pacific Islander (Filipino) and I actually kind of like Archipelago's engagement with the theme because of the agency the natives get. Compared to, say, Catan or Puerto Rico, the island nation inhabitants play a much larger role in the proceedings. You can actually be a sympathizer or pretend to be a sympathizer in order to cause your opponents to treat the natives better. I'm white passing so I don't have as much experience with racism as it is lived in day to day life as dark-skinned Filipino person might, but I think Archipelago is somewhat unjustly torn down for racism. When compared to the white-washed racism of Catan, Puerto Rico, or most "orcs at the gates" type games, Archipelago looks positively progressive. Like what Gutter Owl said, Archipelago depicts an evil theme. And its art IS very patronizing. But it is the only game of its kind to even represent native island people as anything other than pawns. How different is the other thread darling, Mage Knight, where you systematically brutalize an island's inhabitants as a competition against other colonists?
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Apr 25, 2015 02:02
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http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/post/review-panamax/ So, Paul reviews a complex economic game and does a good job. Is this a hand reaching out from the grave to arrest the slide of SUSD into the braindead funhavers abyss, or just simply a dead cat bounce?
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Apr 25, 2015 02:12
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silvergoose posted:I've only played mall, city is by most accounts a bit more complicated and larger without necessarily being better, but it is still mostly the same game with the same good parts. And yes, easier to find, mall is very out of print. Neat, that's all I needed to hear. It's on the list. Speaking of, Dominion Adventures owning goons, anyone know if it's only being printed by Hasbro? The base game/Intrigue reprints I got are frankly dogshit and I will do whatever I can to avoid them. Anyone with experience able to confirm? "Made with pride in the USA" badge on box, low quality cardstock, cards that don't fit in the insert when sleeved, misprinted font on the layout insert?
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Apr 25, 2015 02:15
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I'll check when I get home, but my copy was fine. The cards felt great and the tokens and other components were solid.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:22
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taser rates posted:Or hell, zombie Space Alert. But those might accidentally be good zombie games I know, right? I've been tempted to experiment with theming galaxy trucker to work as a barricade building zombie game. Block up a gap in the wall with junk in a mad scalable with the other players, see what gets through.
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Apr 25, 2015 02:26
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Dead Space the board game
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Apr 25, 2015 02:32
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Impermanent posted:Like what Gutter Owl said, Archipelago depicts an evil theme. And its art IS very patronizing. But it is the only game of its kind to even represent native island people as anything other than pawns. Oh, I'll totally agree that Archipelago is quite a few steps above Puerto Rico and its little brown "colonists" in terms of native agency. And I'd easily believe Archipelago's missteps are born from tone-deafness rather than actual malice. I'm not saying we need to burn the racist witch. But just because a game makes fewer fuckups than its predecessors, that doesn't mean we can't still demand better. Like, it's cool that the natives push back against their treatment, but they're still largely a function of the colonists' actions, rather than having any real agency. Plus, the natives need to be "protected" by a colonial Sympathizer, which is kinda white-savior-y? I'd still love to see a high-profile colonization game wherein the natives are player-controlled. Navajo Wars and Comancheria are the only ones I can think of. (Disclaimer, I am white as all gently caress. I did spend a small part of my childhood growing up on Honolulu, but it was in a haole-as-all-gently caress suburb.) As for Mage Knight: Fluffwise, you're taking over the remnants of the Atlantean Empire (who totally aren't the post-fall Romans, honest), largely with the direct help of the local population. Post-imperial fracturing and wars of succession at least a different sort of historical atrocity.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:00
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Impermanent posted:How different is the other thread darling, Mage Knight, where you systematically brutalize an island's inhabitants as a competition against other colonists? Archipelago's shortcomings are disappointing precisely because it does such a good job otherwise. I agree that it's better than Puerto Rico in this respect but it could have been a shining light for how to create games about difficult themes. I don't think you're ever presented as a 'good guy' in Mage Knight and it's difficult for dragons to be offended by their representation in the game. edit: Vlaada has specifically stated that this sort of thing is why he tends to use fantasy/sci-fi settings. Gutter Owl posted:And I'd easily believe Archipelago's missteps are born from tone-deafness rather than actual malice. Definitely. Five Tribes is another example where the designer just sort of threw a questionable depiction in and wondered what the big deal was. Zurui posted:Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? Smash Up is just awful. Puzzle Strike, Eminent Domain, Paperback. Bottom Liner posted:You can also try Quarriors, which mixes deck building with dice rolling. Roll for the Galaxy does everything about that idea better and it's not even supposed to be a deckbuilder analogue. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 03:03
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The End posted:http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/post/review-panamax/ I still watch all their reviews, but I'm to the point where the only ones I look forward to are the ones with Paul in them.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:22
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I actually like Quarriors. It's a bit on the swingy side, but I'd be hard pressed to call it bad.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:30
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Zurui posted:Hey all-knowing board game goons: how is Smash-Up? Smash Up is a light game that has a decent amount of fun hidden within, especially if you really get into the themes. It has lot of replayability, but it is not a mechanically elegant game. And since this thread seems to prize mechanics above all other factors, you're bound to hear a lot of "it sucks" kind of replies. So with that said, I enjoy the game. I don't ever really think "Man, I want to play Smash Up!" but when it does come out, I never fail to have fun. Many people in this thread use Splendor as their baseline for good or bad. As in, "If it's better than Splendor, it's a good game. If it's worse, it's bad." For me, my baseline is Smash Up. Pros: The themes and art are mostly well done and frequently funny, some more than others. One of the expansions has Giant Ants, of which every Action card (and a few minions) is a joke based on a Queen song. Nothing like throwing a Killer Queen down and playing Another One Bites the Dust on top of it. The spies deck (also in an expansion) is nothing but James Bond jokes, and in the stock game, the Dinosaurs have all these high-tech augments that remind me of the 80s cartoon Dino Riders. Only a few decks are complete duds. The rules are easy to learn and make sense. The competition aspect isn't super confrontational for most decks. Most of the time it's better to help yourself than it is to gently caress the other guy over, so you don't end up in Munchkin-esque stalemates. Games are pretty quick--about 15 minutes plus 5 per player if everyone knows what they're doing. Cons: Some deck combinations really suck or are overpowered. In the stock game, Dinosaurs are pretty weak and Robots are quite powerful. Usually you balance this out by choosing random decks or doing a round-robin style pick, but you can absolutely end up in a position where it's virtually impossible to win or to lose, depending on your factions. (I really prefer random deck selection for this reason) Two player games show this imbalance more than larger games. Decks that flood the game with minions (zombies, robots) are incredibly powerful in two player games, for example. As mentioned before, there are some clunky mechanics. The most ubiquitous is probably the shuffle/draw mechanic which drives the game. Unlike Dominion, you can't build your deck so that you have a reliable engine. This means that you will often not be able to use cards in their best combinations. This affects everyone equally, so it's not really a handicap, but people who prefer to min-max their experience may not enjoy it.
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Apr 25, 2015 03:40
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I found the Smash Up! rules to be too light for their own good and the card wording ambiguous just often enough to be really frustrating. It could really do with an MtG style rewording and a bit more rules clarification.
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Apr 25, 2015 04:14
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I assume that the expansions (for Smash Up) are probably done better than the base game (which was pretty bad). There's no reason the core game couldn't have functioned OK as a casual, light game - but the starter factions were a mess. Similarly, I think they eventually made a playable game out of Quarriors, with the expansions and rules updates. Again, the original shipped game was pretty terrible with obvious auto-pilot strategy most of the time. Heck, even Pandante might be playable with the new Version 2 rules. All of their problems could have been caught with some reasonable playtesting, or some more thought in design. For my group, the core problems in every one of those were apparent in game 1, and just got worse with more plays. We're too sour on any of these to give them another go (and I think a lot of into-board-games people are), but to be fair I think they're all probably significantly better than they were last time I played them. Kind of unrelated, but I object to the idea that we're all down on casual games because all we care about is "mechanics" or don't understand fun or theme or whatever. First, "we" aren't all anything. Among the forum regulars, there's lots of variety of opinion on games - and people disagree all the time without issue, because while we might all like different things, even posts you disagree with the conclusion of are often informative. What starts the boring fights is when posters focus on people and winning arguments instead of games - stuff like "the only reason you think X is because you're Y", "when you say game X is terrible, that's rude because you're somehow making fun of me", "anyone who says X doesn't understand or doesn't like the right things" or "here's your opinion twisted into a bizarre absolute because that's easier for me to argue with". And yes, I realize I'm not talking about games right now... but one last bit of meta-posting: I really appreciated the discussion about racism in Archipelago in the last few pages (though I have nothing to add). Last time the same subject came up, it was kind of shouty and unproductive; this time I feel like I gained some understanding/perspective so thanks for posting that stuff. jmzero fucked around with this message at 04:52 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 04:44
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Yep, well put. There's a well founded push back against people defending poor games as 'fun' and therefore excusable (hence the 'funhaver' pejorative ) but beyond that, there is a diverse range of perspectives here and the hive mind slurs are poorly founded
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Apr 25, 2015 05:19
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ConfusedUs posted:
This is my main issue with Smash Up. It's got decent theme and art, but I typically play quick, more luck-based games with new players. And Smash Up has far too much text on the cards for a fast first game. My first game of Smash Up (base game) dragged over an hour with 4 players. If Smash Up was more elegant and suited to a competitive scene, it might come out enough for everyone to become quick. But that won't happen with my typical playgroup. Maybe my group is more AP prone than yours, but Smash Up does not play fast when people want to win on their first game.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:21
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jmzero posted:Kind of unrelated, but I object to the idea that we're all down on casual games because all we care about is "mechanics" or don't understand fun or theme or whatever. The OP contains Dixit, Resistance, Coup, Ugg-Tect, Cash n Guns and Love Letter after all. When it comes to light/casual games there's IMO really only two major mechanical requirements: 1. The rules should support "fun" play and make it congruent with "good" play as much as possible. 2. The rules and mechanics should otherwise get the hell out of the way. Dead of Winter has problems in both of these categories with rules that generally make optimal play pretty gamey (betrayer spiking and secret objectives in general) and rules that exist pretty much just to stop players doing what would seem reasonable (trading forcing use). Smash Up isn't bad in the first category other than unbalanced decks but has an issue in number 2 that I think many people don't recognise - if your rules are too loose then that's an obstruction as well. If I have to stop playing my light casual game to scour the rulebook and internet for clarification on an interaction because you didn't put enough effort in to the rules and card text you have a problem. A counter-example would be the "good team can't fail missions" rule in Avalon, which probably seems like a weird rule to add but the game really benefits stating outright that you can't do it. Dixit is near-perfect in both of those categories, it only has issues in category 1 when people are able to give clues about in-jokes or something (and theoretically this should work itself out with a steady group). By contrast CaH makes almost no attempt at fulfilling requirement 1. edit: Golden Bubble's comment is another aspect of the issue with smash up. Games with a lot of unique card text are essentially moving their rules on to the cards. Dominion handles this way better through both having clearer rules/wording and only having 10 cards for every player in the game to read and understand. Bubble-T fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 05:28
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Does anyone else love Hive as much as I do? It's really fantastic and everyone I've shown it to has immediately had fun, from kids to older adults. It's also the perfect quick game or game to play by a campfire (I have the pocket edition). One question though, it seems like the person that goes first has a major advantage. Am I right or just seeing things on too small a scale? EDIT: according to BGG, it has about a 6% win-rate advantage to white, which is smaller than the white side advantage in chess (11-12%), so not so bad. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 05:33
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Some great posts in this thread gang. Dead of Winter avatar approves. Also, preorder Cuba Libre, and let's have a discussion about it's treatment of the subject matter.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:44
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fozzy fosbourne posted:preorder Cuba Libre loving do this. Get this sucker to 500 so they can hurry up about reprinting it.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:53
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Bottom Liner posted:The stand alone Ascension expansions are good fun. The base game is a bit dull. It's a very different experience though, since you're drafting from a random row of 5 cards that change every time a card is bought. This is someone's alt, trolling account, right? Gutter Owl posted:I'd still love to see a high-profile colonization game wherein the natives are player-controlled. Navajo Wars and Comancheria are the only ones I can think of. Have you tried this one? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/94246/1812-invasion-canada I'm not sure it is in the same sort of genre of colonization, but one player gets to play the First Nations Canadian dudes and try to take out America.
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Apr 25, 2015 05:55
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Bottom Liner posted:Does anyone else love Hive as much as I do? It's really fantastic and everyone I've shown it to has immediately had fun, from kids to older adults. It's also the perfect quick game or game to play by a campfire (I have the pocket edition). Here's something I've heard of to combat the first turn advantage that could work as a house rule. A plays a first move as white. B can decide whether or not they wants to take that move. If they do, B becomes the white player, and A plays as black starting with placing the first black piece, otherwise play continues with B playing as black. I don't know if there's a name for this kind of game start. EDIT: EvilChameleon posted:Have you tried this one? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/94246/1812-invasion-canada I'm not sure it is in the same sort of genre of colonization, but one player gets to play the First Nations Canadian dudes and try to take out America. Isn't that the one that's a deck builder where trashing is an unbeatable strategy? unpronounceable fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 06:02
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EvilChameleon posted:Have you tried this one? https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/94246/1812-invasion-canada I'm not sure it is in the same sort of genre of colonization, but one player gets to play the First Nations Canadian dudes and try to take out America. This actually came to mind when looking for examples. The upcoming COIN game Liberty or Death will also feature a playable Native coalition. And Fire in the Lake is arguably about Southeast Asian decolonization and resistance to colonial imperialism. Of these, however, I'm only familiar with the play of Fire in the Lake. (And even then, I haven't played a full game. I've just toyed with it, and know the COIN system in general.) So I can't really comment on the portrayal in these games. unpronounceable posted:Isn't that the one that's a deck builder where trashing is an unbeatable strategy? No, that's Martin Wallace's A Few Acres of Snow. gutterdaughter fucked around with this message at 06:22 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 06:18
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unpronounceable posted:Isn't that the one that's a deck builder where trashing is an unbeatable strategy? That's A Few Acres of Snow, I think.
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Apr 25, 2015 06:18
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Echophonic posted:I actually like Quarriors. It's a bit on the swingy side, but I'd be hard pressed to call it bad. It's fun to roll dice but the base game is you trying to get better numbers than the opponents with very few choices that matter. Like risk but much shorter.
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Apr 25, 2015 08:56
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Gutter Owl posted:We already had this discussion for like three pages in the last thread. If the islander being depicted is supposed to be performing a maori haka, it's a) badly-conveyed, b) inaccurate to the historical purpose and usage of the haka, and c) presented without appropriate context for distribution to a market (America and Europe) that at large does not understand this gesture except through an infantilizing lens, when d) that market has a longstanding history of perceiving Pacific Islander cultures as infantile, uncivilized, and savage. Oh, I agree on all counts. The art should have been more generic and as it stands can be easily interpreted as ridicule. I was just pointing out that it does have a historical precedent, so it's more likely the artist/designer just did a google image search then went 'Welp, job's done!' than actually went out of their way to be racist. When I play with friends, we have trouble even using the black meeple to represent local unrest, instead using a spare 5th player purple meeple ('cause they're purple with rage or something). bobvonunheil fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 11:22
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golden bubble posted:This is my main issue with Smash Up. It's got decent theme and art, but I typically play quick, more luck-based games with new players. And Smash Up has far too much text on the cards for a fast first game. My first game of Smash Up (base game) dragged over an hour with 4 players. If Smash Up was more elegant and suited to a competitive scene, it might come out enough for everyone to become quick. But that won't happen with my typical playgroup. Maybe my group is more AP prone than yours, but Smash Up does not play fast when people want to win on their first game. In my experience Smash-Up is a substitute for Munchkin, nothing more nothing less. It's not going to win any mechanics awards, but it is a clearly better game than Munchkin and appeals to the same kind of people. You buy Munchkin so that you can bring it to game night and when "that guy" demands to play Munchkin you can say "lets play Smash-Up instead!"
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Apr 25, 2015 11:25
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nimby posted:It could be like Last Will, first person to get rid off all his meeples wins. That's... actually not a bad idea. Is there a game that works like this? Other than Village, I guess. It'd have that neat "the closer you get to winning, the less power you have" thing going on.
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Apr 25, 2015 13:56
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Gutter Owl posted:This actually came to mind when looking for examples. The upcoming COIN game Liberty or Death will also feature a playable Native coalition. And Fire in the Lake is arguably about Southeast Asian decolonization and resistance to colonial imperialism. Of these, however, I'm only familiar with the play of Fire in the Lake. (And even then, I haven't played a full game. I've just toyed with it, and know the COIN system in general.) So I can't really comment on the portrayal in these games. Interestingly, the genesis of FITL was a Mark Herman design for a Vietnam game where the players were the RVN and VC, with the US as an entirely non-player faction. That got scrapped after Andean Abyss came out and they decided to adapt it to the COIN system, but the game is still largely about the Vietnamese experience rather than the US.
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Apr 25, 2015 15:45
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The U.S. largely serves as an operational force for ARVN anyway. They don't even want to be in nam at all. Fire in the Lake is an amazing game that manages to juxtapose seemingly contrasting win conditions with what's necessary to prevent your enemies from gaining the upper hand. But maybe you guys should preorder Cuba Libre to get your toes wet.
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Apr 25, 2015 15:53
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Single Tight Female posted:Neat, that's all I needed to hear. It's on the list. This is how my version of Adventures is, hadn't heard of it being a thing before. I'm kind of bummed, but also Adventures is really cool. Only problem is none of the kingdom generators have updated to include it yet!
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Apr 25, 2015 16:34
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