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If you want i can just dump a bunch of questions onto the ask us anything thread and josh dev man will reply to them within a day generally. Also on the "all the generals murder eachother" note - one of karth's starting abilities is that the entire world is immediately more reckless and quick to anger, so yeah, that is more likely to occur with him as the GOO. There was also a neat post about someone doing a "do nothing" azlan run where the objective was just to hope the world functioned business as usual until Azlan reached full power and won the game through becoming fully awake that ill try to find. Normal Adult Human fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Apr 25, 2015 |
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Apr 25, 2015 01:35
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Honestly, I want someone like the Watch it Played guys to do a video on this game. I've actually bought a couple board/cardgames after seeing the Watch it Played videos (Puzzle Strike and Small World). It has everything you need to know about the actual game, and you can see if it WORKS and is FUN. For some games, this isn't necessary... but the fact is, That Which Sleeps is going to live or die based on it's interactivity and AI. It's just something we're going to need to see. I don't think questions are going to cut it.
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Apr 25, 2015 09:07
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1stGear posted:Those of you who are waiting for a new dev video at the crack of dawn Saturday better be ready to keep waiting. Since the Kickstarter launched, KDP have managed to miss literally every single deadline they've set for themselves. Dev posted:Just went to record and my mic is broken - I'll run out and grab a new one tomorrow but voice quality might be bad on the next videos. By tomorrow I assume he means saturday, timezones and all that.
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Apr 25, 2015 11:17
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VARmgV8uEzs
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Apr 26, 2015 09:38
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The tag system looks quite versatile when searching for modifiers inside the modding tool. You can even create tags that have no effect ingame amd are just used for sorting in the modding tool which is very cool, I'm also really liking the trait system for elite units that triggers certain events in combat so if you don't have a counter for something an elite unit can seriously wreck your poo poo. I know from previous dev blogs and rantings on the forum that traits also exist on regular minions which allow your agents to do certain actions. For example an agent can pick up a thaumaturge with thaumaturgy skill that lets the agent do some whacky magic stuff through rituals.
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Apr 26, 2015 10:11
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I didn't know I wanted this game until I found this thread.
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Apr 26, 2015 13:23
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At least all of this watching and waiting will help us get into character by the time we get our hands on it.
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Apr 26, 2015 13:33
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Just watched that, it sounds as if armies are seperate (but sort of attached to) Agent manipulation. That sounds interesting.
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Apr 26, 2015 17:24
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As far as I can make out, "armies" are just certain kinds of minions attached to an agent.
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Apr 26, 2015 17:30
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I think it might be different "type" because you do not neccesarily need an agent, I think, but on top of that he mentions how Giants can be both units and minions, surely that means that the Army and the Minion/Agent thing is very different?
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Apr 26, 2015 17:31
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Well presumably when you go to the giant's PoI, you could recruit a giant agent or a giant minion. It's just what tag(s) that particular entity has been assigned in the editor.
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Apr 26, 2015 17:46
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Armies are separate entities on the main map but you can attach an appropriate agent to lead it, in place of a regular NPC and control it directly. Pretty sure if you don't have an agent you don't control the army itself and it just works off the AI. You can also have your agent follow the army but not lead it as kind of protection, but heroes can break through the lines to get to you and force an attack, I think what happens then is they get a few turns before lots and lots of orcs start showing up as throwaway minions.
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Apr 26, 2015 17:53
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Still don't know how armies interact with agents/heroes. Do they just increase danger on a point of interest and spawn chaff during fights? Can they blockade a poi and prevent passage? nobody knows.
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Apr 26, 2015 19:48
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Normal Adult Human posted:Still don't know how armies interact with agents/heroes. Do they just increase danger on a point of interest and spawn chaff during fights? Can they blockade a poi and prevent passage? nobody knows. I assume that they are either a) Led by them or B) increase the opportunity for negative effects. Personally I am excited about what I have seen now. Just wish it wasn't wrapped up in dull rear end mod talk.
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Apr 26, 2015 20:33
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Everything we have seen so far is great, but this really will be made or broken by how the AI handles the vent system. So far it seems they are just chucking together a bunch of variables with little to no determination and hoping that the game that emerges is the one you want. It's a big ask, and at the very least is going to take an immense amount of user testing and tweaking to get the game to not descend into madness (the unfun totally random kind) long before the end game. In many ways the closest parallel I can think of would be Europa Universalis 3 on release. After EU2 which was heavily scripted paradox went full sandbox and the result was total chaos. It was fixed, many patches, 5 expansions and some deterministic events/modifiers later, but it was a long road. It's going to be a very fine line indeed between making the game winnable, but keeping the AI behaving plausibly.
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Apr 26, 2015 20:42
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Pharnakes posted:Everything we have seen so far is great, but this really will be made or broken by how the AI handles the vent system. So far it seems they are just chucking together a bunch of variables with little to no determination and hoping that the game that emerges is the one you want. It's a big ask, and at the very least is going to take an immense amount of user testing and tweaking to get the game to not descend into madness (the unfun totally random kind) long before the end game. That's why I'm not optimistic. If the developers are reluctant to show off the most amazing feature of their game or have problems explaining how are you even supposed to play it, it rarely ends well.
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Apr 26, 2015 20:49
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If they are going the route I think they are going: coding wise, if two completely identical heroes, down to traits and stats and all that, spawn and they always react the same to the same event then I do think it is possible to code that. Same for rulers and all that. The randomnes comes into play by introducing half randomized stats and traits. And a looot of events. Otherwise yeah, it could certainly work out pretty dull. But Afaik Josh said something along the lines of minimising randomization.
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Apr 26, 2015 20:57
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The advantage they have is that the game is asymetric by nature. They can make the AI do whatever behind the scenes, you have no way to know whether that cool thing that just happened was a rare accident or really good scripting.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:02
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extraordinary posted:If they are going the route I think they are going: I agree it's possible, but I would be more confident if I saw something that even resembles a gameplay. It's common sense to finish the core features first and I don't understand the logic of showing off completely superficial things instead. It's like trying to present an FPS shooter and starting with the options menu. Riso posted:The advantage they have is that the game is asymetric by nature. They can make the AI do whatever behind the scenes, you have no way to know whether that cool thing that just happened was a rare accident or really good scripting. That was one of things that made Master of Orion 3 crap - the AI wasn't that bad, but made every decision behind the scenes and never told the player why.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:20
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You can design the AI and events to lead the nations down predictable paths like heroes ensuring world peace or whatever. The randomness and gameplay comes from your interference in the world. If you just pass turns and do nothing the AI nations will keep trading or fighting with the orcs and other uncivs. The guilds and orders will do their thing and suppress random undead and the world will continue to spin. But they will eventually find you and put you down. Basically the AI veers towards order and you are the chaos that's turning that one king mad for gold and power, handing that one guild the artifact it needs to become the illuminati and unifying the orc tribes to march on the republic.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:25
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I'm going to remain on the cautiously optimistic end of the spectrum. Not out of any in depth knowledge of how games like this usually fit together, but more based on how the developers are trying to be nice about it. Plus it is not like we are dealing with things like the Star Citizen developers here. Josef bugman fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 21:26
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Gantolandon posted:I agree it's possible, but I would be more confident if I saw something that even resembles a gameplay. It's common sense to finish the core features first and I don't understand the logic of showing off completely superficial things instead. It's like trying to present an FPS shooter and starting with the options menu. The map in the last few updates wasn't even one of the scenarios, it was quickly thrown together to test the impact of all the changes on the ai.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:35
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extraordinary posted:I asked the same on the beta forums and paraphrased, they basically built the game completely new after the success of the kickstarter and are using the modding tools themselves to recreate it. So they had finished a game and then decided to make the modding tools to make a new one? Jesus that sounds a bit complex.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:41
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Josef bugman posted:So they had finished a game and then decided to make the modding tools to make a new one? Jesus that sounds a bit complex. They had a finished game only needing art assets but the stretch goals added religions and a bunch of other AI stuff got expanded.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:42
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Jeez. Well I hope those of you in the beta get your backer stuff by the end of the weekend. That way at least you can start making races and other things in preperation,
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Apr 26, 2015 21:44
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Josef bugman posted:Jeez. Well I hope those of you in the beta get your backer stuff by the end of the weekend. That way at least you can start making races and other things in preperation, I'm already sperging about my amazonian aztec lizardmen with east indian company style colonialist explorers mod  The modding videos up so far have me pretty hyped and I'm 100% as spergy as the worst of them on the beta forum right now.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:48
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It's actually been postponed to sometimes during the week. And still missing two of the three videos so yeah. I mean, I get that dates can slip but they slip a lot. Edit:^^^ You will never be as spergy as the guy whose every post ends in "I need to know this for my touhou mod, you see. Let me tell you about it."
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Apr 26, 2015 21:48
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Well as long as he doesn't start beginning his posts like that.
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Apr 26, 2015 21:57
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Okay I am now really tempted to make an Old One called "an'ime" just to really irritate all the inevitable people who are going to demand that sort of mod.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:00
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extraordinary posted:It's actually been postponed to sometimes during the week. And still missing two of the three videos so yeah. The mod tools release or the beta release or both?
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Apr 26, 2015 22:00
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quote:well when it comes to "old ones" to play we would have options
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Apr 26, 2015 22:04
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extraordinary posted:I asked the same on the beta forums and paraphrased, they basically built the game completely new after the success of the kickstarter and are using the modding tools themselves to recreate it. That sounds a bit sketchy, to be honest. Even if they were forced to rebuild the entire game from the scratch (which is a warning sign in itself), they should at least have some gameplay from the earlier version. At very least, they should be able to describe the system they're trying to make accurate enough that the player understood how are they going to play the game. Right now it seems like they're slapping together different elements into the gaming equivalent of primordial soup and hoping for some gameplay to emerge eventually.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:06
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Well they do admit dwarf fortress is one of their inspirations. My cognitive dissonance allows me to believe that all of the tight gameplay they describe is in the scenarios/prodecural scenarios and all of the pipe dream bullshit is for endless mode.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:07
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Normal Adult Human posted:The mod tools release or the beta release or both? Mod tools. Nothing specific about beta except that they'll continue working on it after the mod tool release. And there were already some mod proposals. Warhammer, which could work, some others that seem pretty generic and, I poo poo you not, a My little Pony mod.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:07
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A mod tool release will at least allow us to look at some game mechanics/game data instead of weekly anecdotes. That said releasing a map editor and mod tools before you release a game is pretty weird.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:08
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Gantolandon posted:That sounds a bit sketchy, to be honest. Even if they were forced to rebuild the entire game from the scratch (which is a warning sign in itself), they should at least have some gameplay from the earlier version. At very least, they should be able to describe the system they're trying to make accurate enough that the player understood how are they going to play the game. They do actually have one or two gameplay videos up on their youtube channel. Combat, too.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:09
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Every time I think I'm a turbonerd for planning to make a WoW mod, I'll just read this post and feel better about my life. extraordinary posted:They do actually have one or two gameplay videos up on their youtube channel. Combat, too. And yeah, if you haven't watched the original Kickstarter videos, you probably should. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-VRnQ7piJg Scenario Generation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K461KtsmEQk POIs and Map Overview https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neOqkdZOhiQ Combat (If you watch no other, watch this one) They actually explain the basis of the game and they don't show much, they showed enough that the Kickstarter was incredibly, wildly successful. They also show why the game needed new art. 1stGear fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Apr 26, 2015 |
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Apr 26, 2015 22:09
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Josef bugman posted:I'm going to remain on the cautiously optimistic end of the spectrum. Not out of any in depth knowledge of how games like this usually fit together, but more based on how the developers are trying to be nice about it. Its just a growing fish in a pond of simulation agents is an exceedingly difficult sort of game to design because of balancing the robustness of the underlying simulation with making fun tools for the player to use to affect the simulation. That's what makes the gameplay semi-blackout so frustrating because its hard to get a read on the second part from static screenshots and developer stories.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:09
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tides of darkness era wow mod writes itself. 7 or so human cities, an elf city, 3 dwarf cities, orc uncivs to the south and troll uncivs near the elf city. Great seal gets put in the blasted lands.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:11
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Pretty much, just wish we could learn more about it. Maybe we should hoof the developer :tenbux: to get onto here. Oh and I think 2nd age of middle earth was a great idea too. I really want to play as Sauron.
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Apr 26, 2015 22:14
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