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Phoon posted:What the gently caress!? I think you will find that this is a good thing because  ....I've never made a "farrrrrrt" post, but drat GW is pushing it.
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Apr 27, 2015 14:15
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embrace the fart Moldy Crow is rad because Jedi Knight is rad and Kyle Katarn is a cool dude
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Apr 27, 2015 15:16
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This seems like a cunning GW plan to print a new codex for everything every six months, but I think that's giving them too much credit for being able to come up with schemes to earn money. It's just fallout from the Chapterhouse thing. They no longer feel safe releasing rules without models, but they can't release too many things at once, so they have to print a new codex with every release. It's why the Knights and the Skitarii are both getting two books. It's not some clever plan, it's short-term panic at the thought that someone else might make a model or conversion kit for an Imperial Knight with two chainswords and a turret on the top.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:22
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I have no idea why GW thinks they have to have models for every rule. PP doesn't do that (my example of a big company). I understand Gw likes money but if someone makes a model based off their rules certainly that does not keep them from releasing their own model. Is the concept of someone making money off conversions that abhorrent to them? Do they think there are giant untapped money piles being stolen by plebian peasant companies? That if they just wrote rules on a napkin their 10 year old wrote down everyone would fight to pay hundreds per model? I guess what I am saying is IPS still apply right? A company couldn't release a sly Marbo anymore then I could make Ford Mustang made of cardboard and a tricycle? Doctor Borris fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 15:31
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Doctor Borris posted:I have no idea why GW thinks they have to have models for every rule. PP doesn't do that (my example of a big company). Because any rule without a model is an opening for another company to make one, and every single dollar sent to one of those companies would instead have gone to GW if they'd had a model instead, using the MPAA mathematical standard. Because that's basically stealing they started sending out lawsuits, but some idiot judge turfed most of their claims, so now they have to cut rules with no models and release new ones in small groups at a time.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:43
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Doctor Borris posted:I have no idea why GW thinks they have to have models for every model. PP doesn't do that (my example of a big company). I understand they like money but if someone makes a model based off their rules certainly that does not keep them from releasing their own model. Is the concept of someone making money off conversions that abhorrent to them? Do they think there are giant untapped money piles being stolen by plebian peasant companies? That if they just wrote rules on a napkin their 10 year old wrote down everyone would fight to pay hundreds per model? Once upon a time GW (pbuh) had rules that contained units that did not have Official Models (tm), so that Hobbyists (tm) could Convert (tm) or Scratch-Build (tm) their own while waiting for GW (pbuh) to lovingly craft their jewels If another company producing lumps of coal and not jewels says anyone can use anyone else's lumps of coal in their game, well, of course they could - it's just interchangeable crap anyway, not jewels. Hey, I bet you could even use jewels in that crappy game that other company uses, have you looked at our jewels? We'll deign to sell them to you, although I assure you they'd be better in a Premium Game. e:f;b (slowed down by excessive smarm)
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Apr 27, 2015 15:44
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its really dumb that the massive titan just like, comes in resin like any normal kit They should have made it a statue out of some other more sturdy material
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Apr 27, 2015 15:45
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There's no such thing as excessive smarm here
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Apr 27, 2015 15:45
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They used to make rules for things and just let them sit for a decade without models. So of course other companies produced mycetic spores and droppods.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:46
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This is GW just slowly easing everyone into their new release plan of updating every codex every 6 months. With radical changes to internal balance.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:46
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Doctor Borris posted:I have no idea why GW thinks they have to have models for every rule. PP doesn't do that (my example of a big company). I understand Gw likes money but if someone makes a model based off their rules certainly that does not keep them from releasing their own model. Is the concept of someone making money off conversions that abhorrent to them? Do they think there are giant untapped money piles being stolen by plebian peasant companies? That if they just wrote rules on a napkin their 10 year old wrote down everyone would fight to pay hundreds per model? Privateer Press "rules" without models may not be used in competitive Warmachine/Hordes games, period. PP also has comparatively draconian conversions/counts-as rules as part of its exceptional organized play rules packet, which drives every aspect of competitive Warmachine and Hordes play, so if you do get a third-party model, you can't use it even after the official one comes out. Finally, every bundle of rules is pretty much guaranteed to get a model within a few months of the rules' release. There are exceptions, but the majority of PP models come out before their book, not after.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:00
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Sulecrist posted:Privateer Press "rules" without models may not be used in competitive Warmachine/Hordes games, period. PP also has comparatively draconian conversions/counts-as rules as part of its exceptional organized play rules packet, which drives every aspect of competitive Warmachine and Hordes play, so if you do get a third-party model, you can't use it even after the official one comes out. Finally, every bundle of rules is pretty much guaranteed to get a model within a few months of the rules' release. There are exceptions, but the majority of PP models come out before their book, not after. Still waiting for PP to work out the kinks in their hard plastic so I can get my Reliant, though 
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Apr 27, 2015 16:08
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Cynic Jester posted:This is GW just slowly easing everyone into their new release plan of updating every codex every 6 months. With radical changes to internal balance. My observations are more often lately GW has begun releasing codexes with little new models but blatant points reshuffle to sell more. Best examples are Tyranids and Dark Eldar though most marine codexes sort of avoid it. The huge hotness of Eldar were Wave Serpents. Now it is support batteries, jet bikes, and Wraithguard. Accident or planning? I wonder how long a company can sell 10 buck update pamphlets for 50 bucks without releasing anything. After getting the latest chaos codex I know I personally was done. PP is not the best example of third party stuff. Though even they do allow conversions are long as the armament is the same and the model is 50% origional. One of the things I really *abruptly and violently throws up* miss about GW. Doctor Borris fucked around with this message at 16:19 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 16:11
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Pyrolocutus posted:Still waiting for PP to work out the kinks in their hard plastic so I can get my Reliant, though Yeah I had to wait way too long for my Riphorn. I have it now and it's all magnetized but one of the variants doesn't fit properly Also, if it wasn't clear, I view everything in my above post as a good thing, at least for the kind of game PP wants to make (and its fans, including myself, want to play).
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Apr 27, 2015 16:13
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Cynic Jester posted:This is GW just slowly easing everyone into their new release plan of updating every codex every 6 months. With radical changes to internal balance. Magic's doing the same thing too and lol if it doesn't get everyone to just play the other formats where you don't have to update your cards at all.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:16
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Doctor Borris posted:I guess what I am saying is IPS still apply right? A company couldn't release a sly Marbo anymore then I could make Ford Mustang made of cardboard and a tricycle? Oh I didn't see this edit. I guess you haven't seen much of the third party market. Have some primarchs. Er I mean, "Knights of Legend" http://www.kabukimodels.com/13-knights-of-legend These guys just say hell with subtlety. A dynamic pose on my Ragnar Blackmane? And Chibi Primarchs (now there's a market intersection)! http://legendarion.com/antagonism.html http://legendarion.com/other.html I think the Legendarion guys are just staying in the appropriate country not to get sued (considering what GW sued over in the past...), either that or staying under the radar, but the Kabuki guys are naming things just close enough, which is what the million other third party companies do.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:18
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GW's IP nightmares.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:42
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thegodofchuck posted:Oh I didn't see this edit. I guess you haven't seen much of the third party market. The name stuff is a direct violation obviously. The other stuff is the cost of doing business when a company has the market saturation GW does with the price level they are at. When prices are so high it becomes cost competitive to sculpt knock offs. It sucks but it is not like they could sell their own bits or addons. It is an empyrically proven fact no real company sells bits as a worthwhile endeavor anyway.
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Apr 27, 2015 16:46
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chrisoya posted:GW's IP nightmares. The night
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Apr 27, 2015 16:58
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I am really tempted to spend the day photoshopping fake White Dwarf prices and sending them to various news sites. Good Idea / Bad Idea?
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Apr 27, 2015 17:22
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Hollismason posted:I am really tempted to spend the day photoshopping fake White Dwarf prices and sending them to various news sites. Good Idea / Bad Idea? Somewhat redundant, as the actual prices will be enough of a troll. But if you do, I recommend photoshopping them to be lower than the real prices. Make them fall in a range that would actually seem reasonable. I think that would make it much more entertaining.
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Apr 27, 2015 17:25
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Photoshop, print out, and photograph. It'll be a "real photo" and the fanboy detectives will do the work for you by confirming it.
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Apr 27, 2015 17:32
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Doctor Borris posted:The name stuff is a direct violation obviously. Copying the name of a character in someone else's text is clearly plagiarism, but may or may not be a "violation" of law. It is not as simple as: any character name I have in my copyrighted text is protected. At the very least, most GW character names are not registered trademarks. So, you can't sell a Spider-Man figurine with the name Spider-Man on it (regardless of what it looks like), because Spider-Man is a registered trademark of Marvel. Where the legal grey area comes in, is when you sell something that is not only using a name from someone else's fiction, but is also a "likeness" from their artwork. Copyright law tends to focus on creative work... there is some atomic minimum amount of creative work you have to do before you have something that is copyrightable. A unique character, with their name and likeness, artwork depicting them, part of a copyrighted (or set of copyrighted) works, though... yeah, you can probably make a claim. Especially when the violation is a commercial exercise in which someone else is selling something, in the same market as your own products, which directly competes with your own products. But even then, it is not an open-and-shut case. See: the battletech lawsuit, FASA vs. Playmates, in which FASA went to Playmates with some mech designs for toys, which Playmates agreed to make, and then decided not to, and then sold toys blatantly ripping off the designs FASA had shown them. And then Playmates won the lawsuit! FASA lost. The reason they lost, is that military giant piloted robots had extensive prior art, before Battletech ever existed: so, FASA's mech designs weren't sufficiently unique to be able to claim a copyright on them. E.g., when your own work is derivative of stuff that is already in the public domain, you can't sue other companies that are also making stuff derivative of what's in the public domain, even if their stuff looks a hell of a lot like your stuff. This is where GW's giant pauldrons come in, by the way! Creating a distinctive look-and-feel is the only way GW can create a defensible intellectual property for most of their models. So... is a space-wolf knockoff model a violation? Well... it's not using exactly the same name as GW's characters. And, it doesn't look exactly the same: it's not a recast. So a putative suit by GW would have to convince a judge that their own model is distinctive enough from the general world of little dudes in power armor that GW can make a clear, unambiguous claim to uniquely owning that design, and any designs that are clearly derivative of it. That is not an open-and-shut case, at all. Maybe GW has lost enough money on lawsuits that they're now going to be a bit more cautious about trying to press that kind of claim. e. In case you are interested, and enjoy reading long legal opinions by judges which talk about science fiction stompy robots: FASA CORPORATION and VIRTUAL WORLD ENTERTAINMENT, Plaintiffs, v. PLAYMATES TOYS, INC., Defendant. No. 93 C 2445 Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 17:33
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Leper, your posts are awesome and I glad to have been an inspiration. On another note that's pretty interesting. Didn't Fasa also lose rights to all its macros stuff? Was that an issue?
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Apr 27, 2015 17:55
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Doctor Borris posted:Leper, your posts are awesome and I glad to have been an inspiration. The rights to Macross in the US are a long and terrible saga of poo poo people doing poo poo things
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Apr 27, 2015 17:59
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Leperflesh posted:Copying the name of a character in someone else's text is clearly plagiarism, but may or may not be a "violation" of law. It is not as simple as: any character name I have in my copyrighted text is protected. There are also, in some countries, laws that govern satire. The United States, for example, you are permitted to use the names and likenesses which do not belong to you in order to make a satirical statement. The burden is, however, to show that you're not using their likenesses as the main driving force for any revenue. So, for example, Mad TV can make fun of Apple and be protected against a lawsuit, but if they called their show "Apple Presents- Mad TV" for a whole season it would not be protected by those laws for a number of reasons. In some very liberal countries, such as Spain or France, there are laws that protect your art from being used in a non intended manner. These laws are retroactive, meaning that the children's children of a famous poet can claim damages if somebody uses their great grandfathers poem, even if its very old, outside of the original context. You see this most commonly in movies and games where some director uses a painting or poem in a horror movie or something and is litigated by defendants in European courts.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:55
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YF19pilot posted:You can get army lists for free off their website. Not true anymore, they put most of them behind a Paywall IIRC. This annoyed me until I realized I had a copy of my army on my HD.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:01
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This thread dropped off the first page.... does this mean the 'bad' thread is so full of negativity that this one is redundant ?
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Apr 27, 2015 23:26
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idunno
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Apr 27, 2015 23:35
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give it a few days, eventually it'll correct back to people talking about their new competitive lists just the way the eldar codex did I can't wait to see who the first person is to unironically talk about how they're buying six of whatever the new knight is so that they can field an army of them on day 1
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Apr 28, 2015 00:05
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Renfield posted:This thread dropped off the first page.... does this mean the 'bad' thread is so full of negativity that this one is redundant ? Maybe it means everyone is enjoying reading a super long 1996 legal opinion by noted Judge Castillo. Because I enjoyed doing that and therefore by rule of projection from my unique experiences to generalization of everyone else's, you all no doubt are just as engrossed in the minutiae of one Judge's carefully considered rulings on whether or not one company's stompy robot toys are or are not stealing from another company that makes stompy robot toys.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:05
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I had a moment of weakness since I was painting for the first time in months. I thought about a new army list for my dwarf army and how I wanted to play, but then I remembered I'd have to play end times horseshit and the additions to my list would easily cost me $200-300 for what amounts to like 30 dudes and a war machine.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:17
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I almost bought a new army recently then I decided I couldnt really afford the lobotomy that would make that seem like a good idea
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Apr 28, 2015 00:29
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Business Gorillas posted:I had a moment of weakness since I was painting for the first time in months. I thought about a new army list for my dwarf army and how I wanted to play, but then I remembered I'd have to play end times horseshit and the additions to my list would easily cost me $200-300 for what amounts to like 30 dudes and a war machine. It's a broken record but mantic, dude
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Apr 28, 2015 00:34
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JerryLee posted:It's a broken record but mantic, dude The only store close to me is a GW store and while mantic is a cool and good company, their dwarf sculpts aren't my favorite.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:40
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Business Gorillas posted:The only store close to me is a GW store and while mantic is a cool and good company, their dwarf sculpts aren't my favorite. There's this thing called the internet where you can order things, and this other thing called a postal service that will bring them to you! If the sculpts aren't your favorite then that's valid, though. Hope sometime they come out with better sculpts that you like 
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Apr 28, 2015 00:42
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If I could go back and do it all over again I'd have a moderate-sized Forge Fathers army. *sigh*
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Apr 28, 2015 00:43
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Yeah I had contemplated buying a 1500 point eldar list packed to the gills with Scatter Laser bikes and D-Weapons to bust out at my FLGS and stomp people with, but then realized it'd be something like $600 and I considered the fact that I could get two to three Warmachine or Dropzone Armies, or all the X-Wing ever for that price and decided not to/
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Apr 28, 2015 00:46
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FrostyPox posted:Yeah I had contemplated buying a 1500 point eldar list packed to the gills with Scatter Laser bikes and D-Weapons to bust out at my FLGS and stomp people with, but then realized it'd be something like $600 and I considered the fact that I could get two to three Warmachine or Dropzone Armies, or all the X-Wing ever for that price and decided not to/ You did the right thing.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:49
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FrostyPox posted:Yeah I had contemplated buying a 1500 point eldar list packed to the gills with Scatter Laser bikes and D-Weapons to bust out at my FLGS and stomp people with, but then realized it'd be something like $600 and I considered the fact that I could get two to three Warmachine or Dropzone Armies, or all the X-Wing ever for that price and decided not to/ OR, OR you could just go down to the local elementary school playground and push some kids over into the dirt. Just as fair of a fight, and a hell of a lot cheaper.
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Apr 28, 2015 01:10
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