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jivjov posted:I'd go with you on this if you were talking about a couple dozen cards you wanted gone...but you have precisely 2 that you've named that you don't like. Nothing is broken by deciding that there are 2 types of card out of over 200 (i.e. Less than 1%) that you just don't want in your games. Again, I don't have time to do 1000 words right now, but just so you can get off this "it's only 2 cards" kick, the 2 card TYPES I named count for 13 unique cards and from Guilds alone, you could throw away everything except Plaza, Soothsayer, Doctor and Herald and not lose anything really. In fact, since the Coin token thing didn't really turn out well, and since Doctor can really throw a start lopsided, I'd say the only real keepers are Herald and Soothsayer. For DA, get rid of all 10 knights, the Shelters, Pillage, Death Cart, Graverobber, Procession, Feodum, Sage, Vagrant, and Poor House. I've never seen any of those lead to an interesting game and/or decision tree. And again, as long as the default format I can expect to see when I sit down across from strangers (and the format that I reasonably expect to see when matchmaking) is ~literally everything~, yes, I can be disappointed when significant portions of the set are either wildly unbalanced or just more chaff. It winds up with a lot of samey boards when 4-5 cards are useless and a lot of runaway victories when the swingy cards hit. It's worse than a 4-village board because, depending on the rest of the kingdom, there might be very good reasons to take any or all of those villages.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:49
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Toshimo posted:Again, I don't have time to do 1000 words right now, but just so you can get off this "it's only 2 cards" kick, the 2 card TYPES I named count for 13 unique cards lol Sorry duder, knights don't count ten times as much as every other kingdom pile no matter what hoops you jump through.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:52
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Madmarker posted:I stand corrected, I didn't realize that was a new game. It's from last year's Essen crop.
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Apr 27, 2015 18:53
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Toshimo posted:Again, I don't have time to do 1000 words right now, but just so you can get off this "it's only 2 cards" kick, the 2 card TYPES I named count for 13 unique cards and from Guilds alone, you could throw away everything except Plaza, Soothsayer, Doctor and Herald and not lose anything really. In fact, since the Coin token thing didn't really turn out well, and since Doctor can really throw a start lopsided, I'd say the only real keepers are Herald and Soothsayer. For DA, get rid of all 10 knights, the Shelters, Pillage, Death Cart, Graverobber, Procession, Feodum, Sage, Vagrant, and Poor House. I've never seen any of those lead to an interesting game and/or decision tree. What the heck is wrong with Death Cart of all things? It is powerful certainly, but you definitely need to build around it Shelters are pretty drat awesome, and completely change some kingdom evaluations, they definitely liven up gameplay. even if they gently caress over Baron. Jedit posted:It's from last year's Essen crop. Gotcha
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Apr 27, 2015 18:58
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Toshimo posted:Again, I don't have time to do 1000 words right now, but just so you can get off this "it's only 2 cards" kick, the 2 card TYPES I named count for 13 unique cards
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Apr 27, 2015 19:13
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BTW, for the people doing Seaside dirty, even without the Duration cards (which are each rad as hell in their own way), when I'm looking to put together cool kingdoms, Embargo, Native Village, Ambassador, Warehouse, Cutpurse, Salvager, Bazaar, and Treasury are all A+ cards. It's probably the best expansion besides Cornucopia for raw playable value and it doesn't have Tournament so...
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Apr 27, 2015 19:14
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So, boardgoons. We can mostly agree that Vlaada Chvatil (praise be unto him) is the living gift of the heavens, sent to the Czech Republic as a divine apology for both Monopoly and communism. We can all recite the holy canon at the unbelievers: Through the Ages, Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert, Dungeon Lords, Dungeon Petz, Mage Knight, Pictomania, drink. But I almost never hear about Vlaada's other games. Have any goons played Arena: Morituri te salutant, or Travel Blog, or Sneaks & Snitches? Any opinions? I know Prophecy has a reputation as Vlaada's big early failure, and Bunny Bunny Moose Moose is evidence that Vlaada drinks sometimes.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:14
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Toshimo posted:Pillage, Death Cart, Graverobber, Procession, Feodum, Sage, and Poor House. I've never seen any of those lead to an interesting game and/or decision tree. Then your experience with the game is poor. I played a game where I won almost entirely with Feodums and a trashing engine. Graverobber can lead to some very interesting decisions and plays very differently if it's the only trashing outlet in a kingdom vs. multiple trashing outlets. A friend of mine made a deck with his main money cards as Poor House. I have seen every card work well in some deck or another. The only two cards I don't like are Pirate Ship (which I just learned I read wrong) and Rebuild. And maaaaybe Swindler. On the other hand, could someone explain to me the Baker hate? I like the way it changes the game up, but I'm not sure it's any better than a Market.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:16
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Sneak and Snitches is so bad I completely expunged it from my mind. It's a bad game.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:16
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OmegaGoo posted:Then your experience with the game is poor. I played a game where I won almost entirely with Feodums and a trashing engine. Graverobber can lead to some very interesting decisions and plays very differently if it's the only trashing outlet in a kingdom vs. multiple trashing outlets. A friend of mine made a deck with his main money cards as Poor House. Ive absolutely dominated a game by running only poorhouse, throne room, and villages. The only card in the game I've never been able to use is Rats.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:19
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OmegaGoo posted:On the other hand, could someone explain to me the Baker hate? I like the way it changes the game up, but I'm not sure it's any better than a Market. Baker fundamentally alters the game and potentially magnifies the difference between a 5/2 and 4/3 start to a heinous degree. It's also hot garbage during the actual game so it's basically a pre-game condition and not an actual card.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:20
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Cutpurse, Bazaar and Treasury are boring Graverobber, Procession, Feodum, Poor House and coin token cards aren't edit: how in hell is Baker a garbage card but Bazaar and Treasury are your favorites?
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Apr 27, 2015 19:20
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Gutter Owl posted:So, boardgoons. We can mostly agree that Vlaada Chvatil (praise be unto him) is the living gift of the heavens, sent to the Czech Republic as a divine apology for both Monopoly and communism. We can all recite the holy canon at the unbelievers: Through the Ages, Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert, Dungeon Lords, Dungeon Petz, Mage Knight, Pictomania, drink. Travel Blog has been a hit with non-gamers and casual gamers every time I've brought it out. It has the same "real-time decisions, let's see how terribly they pan out in a resolution phase" as many of his other games. A bunch of country (Europe) or state (US) cards are laid out, with the starting point(s) being revealed last to initiate the real-time element. For most rounds, you have a stipend up front and want to cross as few borders as possible without choosing actually-adjacent countries/states. A little knowledge of geography gives you an edge but not as much of one as you'd think, since knowing what countries are close doesn't necessarily give you the shortest (i.e. fewest borders) routes. People choose the countries/states they visit in real-time, and you are penalized for each person who chose your places ahead of you. homullus fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 19:26
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Gutter Owl posted:So, boardgoons. We can mostly agree that Vlaada Chvatil (praise be unto him) is the living gift of the heavens, sent to the Czech Republic as a divine apology for both Monopoly and communism. We can all recite the holy canon at the unbelievers: Through the Ages, Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert, Dungeon Lords, Dungeon Petz, Mage Knight, Pictomania, drink. This is a great time to pimp VlaadaCon, where we play only vlaada games all day long! Haven't played Arena, we couldn't secure a copy. Travel Blog is extremely light, newbie friendly, you're just trying to choose the shortest route without seeing a map, either in Europe or in the USA (simplifying the mechanics, but that's the gist). Definitely filler. Sneaks and Snitches was, as Tekopo said, pretty bad, I enjoyed getting to try it once and will probably never want to play again, it was chaos without much in the way of mechanics, though I did get to screw my wife over in that one game, so as I said, I enjoyed it. Prophecy is mediocre, it's his version of Talisman in many ways and doesn't drag on quite as long. Other not as well known game: Graenaland was *fantastic*, it felt like a weird resource denial game where area control was important but securing your goods is even more important. Only played it the once, I really want to try it again.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:29
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Nevvy Z posted:Ive absolutely dominated a game by running only poorhouse, throne room, and villages. Rats exists to turn low-value garbage into high-value garbage. Which can be important if your deck is powered by burning garbage--Apprentice, Bishop, Salvager, Remake, et cetera. Toshimo posted:Baker fundamentally alters the game and potentially magnifies the difference between a 5/2 and 4/3 start to a heinous degree. It's also hot garbage during the actual game so it's basically a pre-game condition and not an actual card. Except for the part where Baker does the exact opposite of what you just said. Baker is often a huge equalizer for openings, giving everyone access to a 5/3 open, and 5 is almost always the magic number in the early game. 6/2 is rarely better than 5/3. At best, a 6 open can get you a Gold or Hireling. The other six-cost cards are either mediocre in the early game (Nobles, Harem, Adventurer, Farmland, Fairgrounds) or inaccessible (Grand Market). And Gold is going to be a bit weak on a Baker board, as Baker is a really solid cantrip, which pushes the ideal strategy towards an engine and away from Big Money. I'll admit, Baker/Hireling can be a tilted opening, sure. (But I'd still rather play against that than a Familiar board with a poo poo potion draw.) And maybe Lost Arts or Training will be a defining open worth passing up a 5/3. But that's still waaaaay within standard variance tolerances.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:37
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Gutter Owl posted:Rats exists to turn low-value garbage into high-value garbage. Which can be important if your deck is powered by burning garbage--Apprentice, Bishop, Salvager, Remake, et cetera. Uhh... Buying turn 1 Goons/Altar/Hunting Grounds or, depending on kingdom, Border Village can be really, really goddamn good. I don't know why you ignored all of the best 6s, but it's not a very good argument. Also, there exist plenty of boards where the reverse is true as well. The aformentioned Rats/Remake is a hell of a 4/4 open and can put a real hurt on an opposing 5/2+baker player before they can catch up.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:43
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HGTV could probably make a killing reskinning travel blog for house hunters international since every person on that show is writing a travel blog.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:46
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Gutter Owl posted:Except for the part where Baker does the exact opposite of what you just said. Baker is often a huge equalizer for openings, giving everyone access to a 5/3 open, and 5 is almost always the magic number in the early game. 6/2 is rarely better than 5/3. At best, a 6 open can get you a Gold or Hireling. The other six-cost cards are either mediocre in the early game (Nobles, Harem, Adventurer, Farmland, Fairgrounds) or inaccessible (Grand Market). And Gold is going to be a bit weak on a Baker board, as Baker is a really solid cantrip, which pushes the ideal strategy towards an engine and away from Big Money. The various copper cantrips are some of my favorite cards. Highway, treasury, peddler (especially peddle). Baker's effect definitely fluctuates with the board and really you are both right depending on the circumstances. In the worst of cases you just go back to the tried and true strategy of vetoing some cards.
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Apr 27, 2015 19:53
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Nevvy Z posted:The various copper cantrips are some of my favorite cards. Highway, treasury, peddler (especially peddle). Baker's effect definitely fluctuates with the board and really you are both right depending on the circumstances. In the worst of cases you just go back to the tried and true strategy of vetoing some cards. Or even...mirrored openings? give everyone 5/2 or 4/3, like you used to be able to do on isotropic That literally solves the problem he's complaining about without getting rid of any cards
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Apr 27, 2015 20:02
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It should be noted that the Dominion base rule book saysquote:players can choose the 10 kingdom cards using any method they agree on. So choosing to not include certain cards is not house-ruling at all, that's literally the rules of the game. Our favorite way to do it is to have each player pick 7 cards from the sets we're using, then shuffle those together and draw 10. Works well. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 20:37
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You can manufacture situations where one split is much better than the other under Baker, but they're much rarer than situations where one split is better than the other without Baker. Nine times out of ten 5/3 is the correct split, and Baker gives everyone that option.
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Apr 27, 2015 20:42
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To be clear "Baker is bad during the game" is a pretty rare opinion. The rating sites have it pretty high.
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Apr 27, 2015 20:59
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Bottom Liner posted:Our favorite way to do it is to have each player pick 7 cards from the sets we're using, then shuffle those together and draw 10. Works well. Ooh, I rather like that a lot. Gonna steal that sometime.
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Apr 27, 2015 21:12
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Toshimo posted:Uhh... Buying turn 1 Goons/Altar/Hunting Grounds or, depending on kingdom, Border Village can be really, really goddamn good. I don't know why you ignored all of the best 6s, but it's not a very good argument. Because it's Monday and work is melting my brain. Okay, I'll totally cop to the fact that 6/2 Goons is a mean opening. But look at it this way: is it really that much worse than a 5/2 Mountebank opening? (They're pretty close in the early turns--$2, a 1VP swing, and a punch to the development.) Likewise, 6/2 Hunting Ground has about the same positive feedback loop as 5/2 Minion, 6/2 Altar is comparable to 5/2 Rebuild, et cetera. What I'm getting at is, an unbalanced 6/2 is rarely more unbalanced that a bad 5/2. But the universal available of a 5/3 open smooths the opening bell curve a lot. e:f,b
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Apr 27, 2015 21:19
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Gutter Owl posted:So, boardgoons. We can mostly agree that Vlaada Chvatil (praise be unto him) is the living gift of the heavens, sent to the Czech Republic as a divine apology for both Monopoly and communism. We can all recite the holy canon at the unbelievers: Through the Ages, Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert, Dungeon Lords, Dungeon Petz, Mage Knight, Pictomania, drink. I own Travel Blog and it was ok, but I've honestly only played it maybe twice. On the other hand, if you don't enjoy Bunny Bunny Moose Moose than you probably have no soul.
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Apr 27, 2015 21:23
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Big McHuge posted:I own Travel Blog and it was ok, but I've honestly only played it maybe twice. News flash, Tek has no soul wait we knew that already.
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Apr 27, 2015 21:35
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I've only played Travel Blog once, but it's cool. It's basically the closest thing to a trivia game he's done when you get down to it. BBMM owns hard. He also has some weird RPS styled game that was only ever published in Polish or something I think, I don't remember the name.
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Apr 27, 2015 22:00
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Gutter Owl posted:So, boardgoons. We can mostly agree that Vlaada Chvatil (praise be unto him) is the living gift of the heavens, sent to the Czech Republic as a divine apology for both Monopoly and communism. We can all recite the holy canon at the unbelievers: Through the Ages, Galaxy Trucker, Space Alert, Dungeon Lords, Dungeon Petz, Mage Knight, Pictomania, drink. I wrote a review of Travel Blog way back in the bowels of the previous thread.... here St0rmD fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 23:02
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silvergoose posted:News flash, Tek has no soul wait we knew that already. Which is odd because I'm fairly certain I've agreed with him on a fair number of other games/issues.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:10
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My dream world is a mix of Bladerunner and 1984, where we administer the 'Bunny Bunny Moose Moose' test to see who reacts positively to it, who are then labeled as deviants and locked up for the good of society. my hate for BBMM is highly exaggerated
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Apr 27, 2015 23:31
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Tekopo posted:My dream world is a mix of Bladerunner and 1984, where we administer the 'Bunny Bunny Moose Moose' test to see who reacts positively to it, who are then labeled as deviants and locked up for the good of society. If you want a vision of the future, imagine a deck of dice stamping on a human face forever.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:37
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Rutibex posted:If you want a vision of the future, imagine a deck of dice stamping on a human face forever. Also, we have always been at war with Eurogames.
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Apr 27, 2015 23:42
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The Ministry of Fun
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Apr 28, 2015 00:01
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It's too bad she won't play The Game of LIFETM! But then again who does?
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Apr 28, 2015 00:17
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Bunny Bunny Moose Moose exists in a weird limbo where it's too fluffy and wacky for most core gamers and has too weird a gameplay structure for casuals to easily learn it. I've found it tends to fall flat with both types of groups.
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Apr 28, 2015 03:25
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Tekopo posted:labeled as deviants yo, standing right fuckin' here. 
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Apr 28, 2015 03:27
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Not gonna read 277 pages——has anyone mentioned Lewis and Clark yet? that poo poo fuckin rules yo
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Apr 28, 2015 03:54
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Nevvy Z posted:Ive absolutely dominated a game by running only poorhouse, throne room, and villages. I have used rats to eat my feodums and make me silver to buy more feodums. I also had some way to trash the leftover rats. It was a fun time and I did well. So there, I like Rats and Feodum. In fact, I like Dark Ages a lot. Guilds, I'd agree is weaker, but I also have a lot less experience with it.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:53
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I really wish I didn't know about the existence of Big Money in Dominion. The game went from building a Rude Goldberg machine to buying like, 2 action cards total and racing Big Money. Maybe it's a symptom of playing the AI in Androminion that improves with live competition, but it did kill the magic for me.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:00
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Jimbozig posted:I have used rats to eat my feodums and make me silver to buy more feodums. I also had some way to trash the leftover rats. It was a fun time and I did well. So there, I like Rats and Feodum. In fact, I like Dark Ages a lot. Guilds, I'd agree is weaker, but I also have a lot less experience with it. Rats is the best card because it helps you get more rats.
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