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What those guys said re: AKI games. Honestly HD texture mods that make those games look "SOOO GOOD" just really make 'em uglier. They're perfectly fine with some, uh, severe wackiness. Look up VPW2 high-def mods and watch how eye-bleeding they get. Besides, buncha wimps probably have a problem with Mike Awesome's tights permanently reading "AWFUL" across the rear end. I will powerbomb flippy men with an awful rear end and be proud of it.
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Apr 26, 2015 16:53
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The worst part about the Yukes games by far is the reversal system. The way they are set up, reversals make up like 75 percent of the game play once you get good at the timing. Despite this Yukes has never really put any effort into making reversals fun or interesting at all. Reversals dominate the game, yet it may be the main stream wrestling series with the least variety of animations for them.
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Apr 26, 2015 17:02
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remusclaw posted:The worst part about the Yukes games by far is the reversal system. The way they are set up, reversals make up like 75 percent of the game play once you get good at the timing. Despite this Yukes has never really put any effort into making reversals fun or interesting at all. Reversals dominate the game, yet it may be the main stream wrestling series with the least variety of animations for them. There is a way to fix that, if I recall you can literally turn reversals off. But then you're at the mercy of never getting to reverse any offense, leading to bullshit chain combos exhausting you, followed by signature, finisher, pin. And if you get out of the first pin you won't get out of the second. 
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Apr 27, 2015 03:56
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I'm pretty sure you can only turn off reversal damage, which only makes the reversal fest matches last longer. The sliders just make the timing more precise, but the timing is easy, so the reversals continue. Can you turn off reversals on next gen? Seems it would make the game pretty much unplayable.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 04:04
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How did no mercy handle reversals again?
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Apr 27, 2015 04:31
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You could block, reverse, or dodge strikes and grapple attempts by timed button presses of L for grapples and R for strikes. Actual grapple move reversals and stuff like diving to ground reversals were partly random, partly based on spirit meter. Different fighting styles had different reversal animations. No Mercy cut down a bit on some of the Japanese style reversals the earlier games had, like the german suplex no sell to running strike. The lack of full control on reversals didn't allow you to dominate the game like the fully timing based setup in the Smackdown games do. To be fair Fire Pro has a similar problem with its timing based game-play, but if you put the difficulty high enough in it you will lose grapples.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 04:46
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RBX posted:How did no mercy handle reversals again? Hit R at the right time to block a strike. The reversal depended on the character's settings. CAWs could be set to do counter strikes or counter grapples. You could reverse certain reversals, such as the foot catch, by mashing B before the person hit A or B to do a counter move. Hit L at the right time to shrug off a grapple. Mash R to reverse a grapple move. I don't know what determined if it worked. I don't think it was timing based. It didn't work every time obviously. Hit R at the right time when being thrown to the ropes to hold the rope. Pretty much hitting R at the right time which was usually obvious if you have any sense of flow. The AKI engine has a great flow. I've been playing VPW2 on my phone. Even with lovely onscreen touchpad controls, it's great. But because now people are talking about wrestling games that aren't poo poo, I have to re-mention Giant Gram 2000. I need to find a GDI rip so I can play Giant Gram 2000 on my phone. Giant Gram 2000 is pretty much the perfect Japanese wrestling game. The CAW is limited in appearance but extremely deep in move development and selection/learning. Also the flow is immaculate. Great representation of the 90s AJPW style. (I don't know what the current files rules are but I own the game legit twice, and even have the red Giant Baba VMU with Giant Baba minigame.) Reversals were great in that game as well. You could have great chains of positional exchanges and move interruption. It was all timing based.
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Apr 27, 2015 04:46
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Who Gotch Ya posted:Hit R at the right time to block a strike. The reversal depended on the character's settings. CAWs could be set to do counter strikes or counter grapples. You could reverse certain reversals, such as the foot catch, by mashing B before the person hit A or B to do a counter move. Yeah it had a bit of a learning curve but it was badass. I've actually seen Japanese tournaments for the game and I was really struck by how much it played out like an actual AJPW match, despite playing like a hybrid fighter/wrestling game. Also the unlicensed looks for the bonus characters were great, Antonio Inoki is a translucent purple man with visible organs. The AKI reversal chat kinda reminds me of one of the problems I had with even the good WWE games, in that the reversal timing for a lot of moves felt kind of counter-intuitive to when you'd actually go for the reversal, and the prompts always seemed to come up too late to be of actual use. RE: The Fire Pro reversal problem, Fire Pro has really tight timing and was mostly meant to be played competitively, and non-back or MMA counters had a lot of stats under the hood telling whether or not the reversal would go through. The more single player-oriented entries to the series were tighter to the point of kinda being assholes, or at least to the point that it wasn't easy to have a full reversal chain going.
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Apr 27, 2015 05:45
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LvK posted:Yeah it had a bit of a learning curve but it was badass. I've actually seen Japanese tournaments for the game and I was really struck by how much it played out like an actual AJPW match, despite playing like a hybrid fighter/wrestling game. Whoa Giant Gram tournament. Were CAWs allowed? I want to get a Giant Gram 2000 arcade cabinet. I've had some pretty good reversal/transition chains in Fire Pro Returns on the ground. Especially using the transitional grappling moves. The timing is hard for some of the MMA stuff, but you just have to be really good at Fire Pro, and I've been playing that poo poo since the 90s.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:02
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Any issue with timing based game-play aside, Fire Pro had interesting and varied reversals. I never got timing down perfectly from difficulty 5 up anyway, so it at least could be challenging when you wanted it to be. What issues I have with Fire Pro come mostly from endless amounts of chop, stomp, and abdominal stretch finishes. The WWE games of late suffer similarly, as so many matches end in abdominal stretches and chinlocks. SVR 2008 had a pretty good fix for that actually, you had to take an ability that let you win matches with non finisher submissions. SVR 2008 was otherwise one of the worst in the series however. I never got to play Giant Gram 2000, only ever heard of it, Is it better than King of Colosseum 2? The bad finishes in FP are way worse when simming, if you are into that. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 06:07
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remusclaw posted:Any issue with timing based game-play aside, Fire Pro had interesting and varied reversals. I never got timing down perfectly from difficulty 5 up anyway, so it at least could be challenging when you wanted it to be. Very different. Apples and oranges. KoC2 is way more sim and completely different gameplay. Giant Gram 2000 is literally an arcade game. It just happens to be a pretty nice representation of the AJPW style. I love both games. Dreamcast emulation is pretty easy and GG2k isn't hard to find. It's also pretty easy to hook up a PS4 or Xbox 360 control to your PC and play it. I recommend it to anyone who hasn't played it. It has one of the best career/CAWs if you're willing to use a translation guide or know how to read at least katakana. Or like buy a Dreamcast on ebay for cheap and track the game down. It's worth it. Edit: yeah you have to be pretty good at the mechanics of Fire Pro to avoid submitting someone with a chinlock sometimes, and you usually have to know your character pretty well too. You can even knock someone out in the MMA mode with something like releasing a mistakenly attempted pinfall or a positional reversal. Then you have to pick up their dead body and Weekend at Bernie's / Ric Flair Broomstick your way through a halfway decent finish. The ab stretch is a legit finisher though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxMSsmhFGpM Who Gotch Ya fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 06:16
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Nah, no CAWs. Not sure the arcade version had them, but * japanese arcades * I'll dig em out tomorrow. One thing about Fire Pro is that basically any MMA-primary move does grotesque amounts of spirit damage, especially with high MMA stats, to make it easier to sim in more realistic submissions. Double legs and guard pulls all day will absolutely wreck a lot of foes. E: also shooter type characters have their highest chance for a quick sub or flash KO in the early match, and playing dirty/rapid fire pinfall attempts/mma tactics early on soften the hell out of a foe by the late game, unless they have one of the fighting comeback perks LvK fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 06:30
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I always thought No Mercy's reversals were mostly based on health? Like going for big moves early on get reversed easily early on? That ought to be the basis of a modern reversal system. You go for a gently caress off powerbomb as your first move, 99% your gonna get back body dropped. Arm Drag? More likely to succeed.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:33
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LvK posted:Nah, no CAWs. Not sure the arcade version had them, but * japanese arcades * You could plug your VMU in and use your dude.
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Apr 27, 2015 06:44
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I would say No Mercy reversals are mostly based on spirit meter. Fire pro works a lot like what you mentioned. I actually kind of forgot about FP auto reversals for trying big poo poo too early because I have gotten so used to the gameflow that I just instinctively move up to bigger moves right around when they become viable now. Getting too good at wrestling games actually kind of sucks alot of the fun out of them. I like how submissions are handled to a point in Fire Pro, being based on spirit more so than on limb damage. The big name guys should take forever to tap in wrestling, even when you're pulling on a broken leg. I like how the AKI games handle limb selling though. Needs to be a good middle ground found there. Did Fire Pro Returns lower the amount of time holds are held? All the 5 count DQ moves break on their own way too fast to actually get DQ'd. Though, now that I think about it, that could just be me using slow counting refs. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 06:46
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No Mercy reversals were definitely based on spirit meter. If you had an opponent on a roll it was basically the only circumstance in which you wanted to use light weak grapples (ex. a snapmare or european uppercut). Against a weak opponent they actually increased their spirit, but they also couldn't be countered. The systems in No Mercy were just so much tighter. Strike spam was definitely not something you could lean on to get you out of a jam, the reversals were brutal. 2k15's stamina system at least allows for extended downtimes sort of like the ones you would fall into into in No Mercy when a match dragged on, but it's still not the same.
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Apr 27, 2015 11:52
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Okay, yeah, * japanese arcades *remusclaw posted:I would say No Mercy reversals are mostly based on spirit meter. Fire pro works a lot like what you mentioned. I actually kind of forgot about FP auto reversals for trying big poo poo too early because I have gotten so used to the gameflow that I just instinctively move up to bigger moves right around when they become viable now. Getting too good at wrestling games actually kind of sucks alot of the fun out of them. Agreed, I pretty much have to cycle wrestling games. I think i've mostly stuck with Fire Pro for so long because I'm genuinely fascinated with exploring the system mechanics and getting wrestlers to do what I want them to do, even if I don't really sim. And in all that time I think i've seen two DQs so yeah pretty sure they cut that poo poo short. I feel like the "Heel" offense type might be able to hold onto them longer? But don't quote me on that.
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Apr 27, 2015 13:22
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So those of you who've gotten No Mercy mods to work, uhh, how? I haven't had much luck and the modders seem to not be very helpful.
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Apr 27, 2015 13:44
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLPBaeCIm4c Here's a Giant Gram 2000 ranking battle set. Channel is a Japanese arcade that runs all sorts of wacky poo poo, including a few more GG2K vids (can't find the tournament on my phone but there is a proper one in there,) NJPW Toukon Retsuden 4 (honestly doesn't look as good,) SNK's forgotten kakutougi-era MMA game Buriki One, and Kinnikuman Muscle GP2. e: no CAWs and, sadly, no secret characters, either. Might be a good reason for that but still, weird urban punk commando bandit Keiji Mutoh was wicked fun Also I feel like Kinniku GP2 is severely underrated in "good wrestling game" talk. It's primarily a 1-on-1 fighter but it's drat good at the wrestling side. Plus it has Lenne Hardt as the system announcer, going insane on the character select screen! Snacksmaniac posted:So those of you who've gotten No Mercy mods to work, uhh, how? I haven't had much luck and the modders seem to not be very helpful. If you can't get this by the end of the day, I have a friend who is one of the only No Mercy modders i've known of who isn't a raging dickhead and I can ask LvK fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 14:06
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Thanks for the details guys, me and a friend had been playing it again and forgot all of that. Also the WWE 2K15 preload is up. GMG sent me my key last night.
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Apr 27, 2015 15:03
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One of the cool and potentially infuriating things about the AKI games spirit system is that it cools down over time simulating the flow of a back and forth match. It is the only wrestling series that lets you play both as Larry Zybysco, and in the way Larry Zybysco is meant to be played. Taking a breather on the outside when the other guy goes all no sell on you. Against a human opponent it even gets heat on par or better than spamming running attacks in a Smackdown game, and has the benefit of being true to genre. Although Roman Reigns seems to have built a lot of his style around spamming running attacks.
remusclaw fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Apr 27, 2015 |
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Apr 27, 2015 15:06
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Snacksmaniac posted:So those of you who've gotten No Mercy mods to work, uhh, how? I haven't had much luck and the modders seem to not be very helpful. It's been awhile since I've installed one, so I decided to download the mod I posted here and it looks like it has everything you'll need. When you extract the folder it should have Project 64 and everything else you'd need to run this. Go to settings and set the video plugin to Rice's Video Plugin, then go to Configure Graphics Plugin. In general options makes sure the Render Engine is set to OpenGL, then go over to the Texture Filers tab and click "load hi-res textures if available." Load the game and I'm pretty sure you have to use a standard USA copy of the rom. When the game loads go to System, select Cheats, and turn on all the Attire Hacks, Move Replacement, Move Hacks, Arenas, and pretty much anything that doesn't look optional. I don't know if there's any more steps, since I have a few different Mods and each needs a seperate version of Project 64 my computer remembers some of the default settings between them.
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Apr 27, 2015 21:20
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LvK posted:
Cool thanks. Yeah you could really overpower the CAWs in gg2k. Some of the moves were crazy if you got em up high enough in level, and the black dreadlocked Bruiser Brody secret character had some crazy poo poo too. As did the see through robot Giant Baba. I never got to play buriki one. I have the rom but have no idea how to emulate hyper neo geo 64 or whatever. I guess I've never really tried that hard. Toukon Retsuden 4 was fun but not really worth checking out at this point. It was cool when it was the only import wrestling game on Dreamcast and I had to do the pre-boot disc ridiculous swap trick to play it. But when KoC2 exists, TKR4 is kinda obsolete. Edit:: hahaha the commentary on the GG2k vid is great Who Gotch Ya fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 00:26
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Who Gotch Ya posted:Cool thanks. Yeah you could really overpower the CAWs in gg2k. Some of the moves were crazy if you got em up high enough in level, and the black dreadlocked Bruiser Brody secret character had some crazy poo poo too. As did the see through robot Giant Baba. Hyper NG64 is almost completely unemulated at this point, sadly. Buriki One looks pretty fun, and it's a game where the Ken and Ryu are Sakuraba and Gracie (and instead of Zangief, you get Karelin and Goldberg[with some sort of nWo Goldust alternate outfit]) (also the Goldberg guy is Dutch because of course the big brute forcer in a '90s JMMA game would be Dutch) I don't even know what the hell was up with that Giant Baba thing in GG2k, it had Giant Baba's model, the anime Tiger Mask's moveset, and Misawa's super move. And it was a translucent yellow guy with a computer in his thoracic cavity. I'm not even sure where the Super Brody thing came from but it was hilarious. So this is pretty niche, but since wrestler behaviors came up, one behavior I kinda wanna see in a wrestling game is the shoot style rope work - light bounces into rebound takedowns, sacrificing your ability to defend a hold you're in to try and jump towards the bottom rope, risking your advantage to yank an opponent away from the ropes mid-hold, etc. The SNES Fighting Network RINGS game tried that a bit but it was mostly just controller-breaking button mashing, the UWFi game was a bit more lenient but still just button mashing with no risk element for the attacker.
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Apr 28, 2015 01:30
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Alright I had an ebay refund go to my paypal so I bought the dumb wrestling game while it's $36 on GMG. is it worth trying to get some steam matches goin
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Apr 28, 2015 02:14
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It didn't unlock yet, did it?
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Apr 28, 2015 02:35
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Snacksmaniac posted:It didn't unlock yet, did it? tomorrow at like 1pm est or so
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Apr 28, 2015 03:47
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I think the 2k15 PC release is probably the most silent release I've ever seen. Any word on loading times / modding capabilities?! I didn't get any DLC for 2k15 on PS4, so I might be tempted if the PC has modding.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:56
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There is almost no chance this will be even a passable port of a pretty bad base game. That said, instantly preordered. It would be fun if someone modded universe mode back in but that's just not gonna happen
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Apr 28, 2015 15:21
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Universe Mode is in according to the manual on Steam.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:28
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whoa i thought it got removed? that might redeem this game
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Apr 28, 2015 15:31
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I think you're thinking of create a story.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:46
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mearn posted:Universe Mode is in according to the manual on Steam. Is Universe mode less repetitive in 2K15? I loved the idea in theory, but it's too accurate to real WWE booking in that feuds are "X faces Y on every show leading to a PPV match"
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Apr 28, 2015 15:48
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triplexpac posted:Is Universe mode less repetitive in 2K15? I loved the idea in theory, but it's too accurate to real WWE booking in that feuds are "X faces Y on every show leading to a PPV match" Not really. Sometimes you get fun cutscenes, though.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:54
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Swagger Dagger posted:Not really. Sometimes you get fun cutscenes, though. God that reminds me. The year they did the Attitude Era, I never got one of the new Attitude Era Universe Cutscenes they hyped up. I even tried doing a roster using only Attitude guys, but no, nothing.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:01
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The Bee posted:I think you're thinking of create a story. Oh yeah. PC version seems like the best place to include that, it always seemed like it could be cool but typing things out was horrible and (at least when I tried) keyboards didn't work. I hope they up the room for CAWs since I heard it's pretty low on consoles (also you can't make divas lol)
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Apr 28, 2015 16:01
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triplexpac posted:God that reminds me. The year they did the Attitude Era, I never got one of the new Attitude Era Universe Cutscenes they hyped up. I even tried doing a roster using only Attitude guys, but no, nothing. It only worked if you didnt use the unlock everything season pass thing.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:03
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Golashes posted:I hope they up the room for CAWs since I heard it's pretty low on consoles (also you can't make divas lol) Oh yeah didn't they do some dumb thing that limited the number you could download per day?
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Apr 28, 2015 16:06
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triplexpac posted:Oh yeah didn't they do some dumb thing that limited the number you could download per day? Google says you could download 10 and upload 5 a day. That sucks. And you have a max of 25 vs 100 in prior years.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:11
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The per day limit at least should be pretty trivial to get around on PC by downloading caw files and chucking them in the right folder.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:13
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