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quick someone unironically deploy privilege_scorecard.jpg
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Apr 28, 2015 03:58
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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-freddie-gray-violence-chronology-20150427-story.html#page=1quote:A group of men who said they were members of the Crips — they wore blue bandannas and blue shirts — stood on the periphery and denounced the looting. http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/the-brutality-of-police-culture-in-baltimore/391158/ quote:$5.7 million is the amount the city paid to victims of brutality between 2011 and 2014. And as huge as that figure is, the more staggering number in the article is this one: "Over the past four years, more than 100 people have won court judgments or settlements related to allegations of brutality and civil-rights violations." What tiny percentage of the unjustly beaten win formal legal judgments? These judgements include BPD cops kicking the poo poo out of an 87 year old woman, a church deacon, and a lady selling church raffle tickets.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:19
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L-Boned posted:I feel like we need more of this. this would literally be the last day of the united states (and not in moral "oh we have lost our way" sense)
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Apr 28, 2015 04:21
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The Insect Court posted:We need some sort of term to describe vicarious identification with and glorification of destructive rioting and looting in the bigoted belief that a handful of idiots throwing bricks through windows is a more "authentic" expression of black feeling than non-violent protest. Hrm I think it might be less "identification with and glorification of" than "why are people surprised, this is what happens" but I'm guessing you miss that because you are the type of guy who wouldn't act out if you grew up in the ghetto, you'd just learn to code.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:25
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Riots are bad. Violent protests are less legitimate than nonviolent protests. It is good that the police and national guard are going to restore order in Baltimore.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:27
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the rioters are a bunch of high school kids http://coed.com/2015/04/27/baltimore-riots-mom-slap-video-freddy-gray-protests-looting/
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Apr 28, 2015 04:29
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pacmania90 posted:Riots are bad. Violent protests are less legitimate than nonviolent protests. It is good that the police and national guard are going to restore order in Baltimore. Generally yeah, but violent protests don't grant a get out of jail free card to excuse the systemic brutality/oppression that instigated them.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:37
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pacmania90 posted:Riots are bad. Violent protests are less legitimate than nonviolent protests. It is good that the police and national guard are going to restore order in Baltimore. This post is devoid of objectionable statements, yet it seems like we cannot even agree on these things as a society.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:38
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:the rioters are a bunch of high school kids Schools are closed tomorrow, but I'm sure all the parents in West Baltimore have babysitters and nannies all lined up for however long the unrest lasts.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:40
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pacmania90 posted:Riots are bad. Violent protests are less legitimate than nonviolent protests. It is good that the police and national guard are going to restore order in Baltimore. I don't know the Stonewall riots were pretty effective.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:41
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http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/ Ta-nehisi Coates making a fairly well-reasoned defense of rioting
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Apr 28, 2015 04:42
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:the rioters are a bunch of high school kids Accounts from locals indicate that the police claimed a "credible threat of gang violence" and descended on a local high school before it let students out, shutting down the public transit around it. This resulted in some rather miffed students finding out that their school was surrounded by riot cops and they had no way to get home reliably. It's very similar to what occurred in Ferguson, where peaceful protests were met with rifle-armed officers and snipers and antagonism until a few thrown water bottles gave the excuse to deploy tear gas and shoot reporters.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:42
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In what way are they less legitimate?
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Apr 28, 2015 04:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/ So did MLK but then a white dude shot him and now we talk about how successful he was due to nonviolence.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:45
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Nonviolence "worked" at one time because at one time people were appalled by the idea of state force being deployed against nonviolent black people.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:50
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chitoryu12 posted:Accounts from locals indicate that the police claimed a "credible threat of gang violence" and descended on a local high school before it let students out, shutting down the public transit around it. This resulted in some rather miffed students finding out that their school was surrounded by riot cops and they had no way to get home reliably. I haven't seen a guns out in Baltimore. poo poo's bad, but I think this is more of a "undercurrent of mistrust and resentment coming to the surface" than "that plus also the cops are LARPing"
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Apr 28, 2015 04:51
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Parody Threads posted:Nonviolence "worked" at one time because at one time people were appalled by the idea of state force being deployed against nonviolent black people. Just going by memory here but I believe every time a nonviolent movement has been successful at achieving political change, it was the "good cop" alternative to a parallel "bad cop" violent movement (black panthers, etc.) I could be wrong but I believe this holds true for Gandhi as well. Of course the counterargument is that violence is sortof humanity's default setting so of course there's always a violent movement and it's the nonviolent movement which makes change possible, which is a defensible argument (and the reason that agents provocateurs are so often inserted into nonviolent protest movements!) Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 04:59 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 04:53
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With Ghandi's case losing control of India in the middle of WWII was the bad cop option.
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Apr 28, 2015 04:59
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Radbot posted:In what way are they less legitimate? Innocent people get hurt during violent protests. That's what I mean. Also want to clarify that there is a distinction between less legitimate and illegitimate. pacmania90 fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 04:59
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pacmania90 posted:Innocent people get hurt during violent protests. That's what I mean. Yes, and who is hurting the citizens again? Hieronymous Alloy posted:Of course the counterargument is that violence is sortof humanity's default setting so of course there's always a violent movement and it's the nonviolent movement which makes change possible, which is a defensible argument (and the reason that agents provocateurs are so often inserted into nonviolent protest movements!) I think rather we'd prefer to attribute success to the Good and Peaceful people than admit in our national fables that being violent and aggressive sometimes helps you achieve your goals.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:00
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Yes, and who is hurting the citizens again? In this scenario, it is the violent protestors.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:05
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pacmania90 posted:In this scenario, it is the violent protestors. It looks like more people are being hurt by the police, actually. This is something that the protesters are in fact protesting about. The police don't care if a protester is violent either, such as when they beat up a Baltimore Sun journalist on camera. The police, generally, are very violent because they know that the laws of the state are designed to protect the police from legal repercussions for their crimes.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:06
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pacmania90 posted:Innocent people get hurt during violent protests. That's what I mean. There was only one innocent man and he died for it.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:07
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Apr 28, 2015 05:14
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It looks like more people are being hurt by the police, actually. This is something that the protesters are in fact protesting about. The police don't care if a protester is violent either, such as when they beat up a Baltimore Sun journalist on camera. The police, generally, are very violent because they know that the laws of the state are designed to protect the police from legal repercussions for their crimes. Perhaps two things can be bad, at the same time
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Apr 28, 2015 05:14
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Just going by memory here but I believe every time a nonviolent movement has been successful at achieving political change, it was the "good cop" alternative to a parallel "bad cop" violent movement (black panthers, etc.) I could be wrong but I believe this holds true for Gandhi as well. Gandhi's nonviolence movement didn't achieve anything, the British weren't budging until they got bankrupted by WW2. So basically Hitler freed India.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:15
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Popular Thug Drink posted:It looks like more people are being hurt by the police, actually. This is something that the protesters are in fact protesting about. The police don't care if a protester is violent either, such as when they beat up a Baltimore Sun journalist on camera. The police, generally, are very violent because they know that the laws of the state are designed to protect the police from legal repercussions for their crimes. Do you have any examples of protestors getting hurt by the police?
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Apr 28, 2015 05:15
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tekz posted:Gandhi's nonviolence movement didn't achieve anything, the British weren't budging until they got bankrupted by WW2. Appropriate as wasn't Gandhi also a huge racist?
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Apr 28, 2015 05:16
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Luigi Thirty posted:Appropriate as wasn't Gandhi also a huge racist? He was the good type of racist, the kind that backs their stuff up with facts and numbers.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:17
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Luigi Thirty posted:Appropriate as wasn't Gandhi also a huge racist? I don't believe so but this thread is about Baltimore and cops so lets not derail it too much.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:17
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How do you arrest a small group of violent protestors within a larger group of peaceful protestors? Genuinely curious.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:19
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pacmania90 posted:How do you arrest a small group of violent protestors within a larger group of peaceful protestors? Genuinely curious. cop answer: trick question: they're all violent
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Apr 28, 2015 05:21
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pacmania90 posted:Do you have any examples of protestors getting hurt by the police? http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-protest-journalists-20150426-story.html pacmania90 posted:How do you arrest a small group of violent protestors within a larger group of peaceful protestors? Genuinely curious. easy, you beat and arrest everyone and tell the media they were all violent and deserving of a beating
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Apr 28, 2015 05:22
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that article posted:Police had broadcast a message that said "something like, 'This is no longer a legal assembly. This is no longer a peaceful protest,'" and warned people in the area they would be detained, Woods said. Do the police actually get to decide that, or are they just bullshitting? There isn't a curfew in place yet, as I understand it. I guess there is the problem of deciding what is and isn't a peaceful protest.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:39
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Speaking as someone who's been quietly keeping an eye on this thread since around page ten, it's really interesting to see how many people who've wandered in on the last few pages seem to think that saying 'The protests are reasonable and the riots, while unfortunate, are understandable' basically means 'gently caress the police, gently caress society and gently caress you' Because, like, seriously folks? I don't think anyone here is sincerely arguing in favor of the destruction of public property. If you really want to look at it that way, go make another thread and yell at your strawmen in there. Nobody in this thread should have to follow up everything they say about the riots with a cute little back-and-forth where you actively misunderstand what they're saying. Also, nice avatar, Popular Thug Drink. Seeing you actually have one for once threw me off a little, tho. 
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Apr 28, 2015 05:42
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pacmania90 posted:Do the police actually get to decide that, or are they just bullshitting? yep. if the police order a crowd to disperse anyone who doesn't can be arrested in maryland for Failure to Obey an Officer 10-201(c)(3) they can order a crowd to get lost if it's a disturbance of the peace boner confessor fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 05:42
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pacmania90 posted:How do you arrest a small group of violent protestors within a larger group of peaceful protestors? Genuinely curious. Usually the violent ones break away from the peaceful ones.
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Apr 28, 2015 05:51
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Edmund Lava posted:I don't know the Stonewall riots were pretty effective. The Boston Tea Party was too. pacmania90 posted:Do the police actually get to decide that, or are they just bullshitting? There isn't a curfew in place yet, as I understand it. Strangely the cops are pretty gung-ho about declaring protests against them violent. But of course they're being perfectly rational and not letting being the target of the protests cloud their judgement. Of course, to lose the cheek here, the protests are probably severe enough a disruption to public order that the cops are legit in ordering dispersal. axeil fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:00
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Were the black protesters in the violent wing of the civil rights movement known for looting? Mom catches son rioting 
shrike82 fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:03
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Skipping ahead several steps in my thinking, but it seems like the big issue is people not respecting the authority of police; not to say that they necessarily deserve it.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:05
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