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shrike82 posted:Were the black protesters in the violent wing of the civil rights movement known for looting? The Boston Tea Party, aka the most famous American riot/protest was entirely about looting and destroying private property, so if people venerate that I think it's pretty hypocritical to slam the riot/protest in Baltimore for having people looting stuff.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:06
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shrike82 posted:Were the black protesters in the violent wing of the civil rights movement known for looting? if "were there riots and looting during that era which were used to discredit the social movement as a whole and specific grievances related to injustice at the hands of police", yes
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Apr 28, 2015 06:07
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I was asking about the civil rights movement.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:07
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shrike82 posted:I was asking about the civil rights movement. The civil rights movement was fifty loving years ago Reminder that Tupac had it right. https://youtu.be/HuBWjhEax3g
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Apr 28, 2015 06:09
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shrike82 posted:I was asking about the civil rights movement. Why does it even matter if people are looting? It doesn't make the "hey the police are loving murdering us" argument any less correct. pacmania90 posted:Skipping ahead several steps in my thinking, but it seems like the big issue is people not respecting the authority of police; not to say that they necessarily deserve it. The cops don't really seem to respect people's right to not be killed so I'm not surprised people have zero respect for their authority. Would you respect cops that are going around killing your friends and neighbors?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:09
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Is anyone using the looting to defend police behavior? I'm just wondering why posters are falling over themselves defending looting as some honorable tradition passed down among blacks from MLK.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:10
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shrike82 posted:Is anyone using the looting to defend police behavior? Whoa, whoa, I'm defending looting as an honorable tradition passed down from the Colonial era, why are you so quick to play the race card?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:11
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shrike82 posted:I was asking about the civil rights movement. Do you make a distinction between "civil rights protestors were looters" and "civil rights protestors were branded as looters"?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:11
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Wait, are we now moving the goalposts to the protesters in Baltimore aren't actually looting?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:12
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shrike82 posted:Is anyone using the looting to defend police behavior? you've got it wrong, whites were looting long before blacks were permitted to do it. it's a tradition handed down from the founders of our nation, except when black people do it then it's scary and a bad way to protest just remember the loudest voices in the room telling the baltimore protesters to settle down literally identify themselves with a violent protest and the destruction of private property. the only moral riot is my riot
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Apr 28, 2015 06:13
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I'm fine if the argument is that white people loot so we should give black people equal opportunity to do so. I just think it's a bit on the nose to defend such as some sort of exemplary behavior.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:15
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you've got it wrong, whites were looting long before blacks were permitted to do it. it's a tradition handed down from the founders of our nation, except when black people do it then it's scary and a bad way to protest Or in the case of the 1863 NYC Draft Riots because black people actually exist. A whole bunch of white folks turned NYC into a hellhole for three days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_draft_riots shrike82 posted:I'm fine if the argument is that white people loot so we should give black people equal opportunity to do so. That's not the argument. The argument is that rioting and looting are natural consequences of a population feeling really hosed over by the powers that be. Tut tutting about it is ignoring that looting is a symptom, not the disease.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:15
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shrike82 posted:I'm fine if the argument is that white people loot so we should give black people equal opportunity to do so. i think really you're more interested in looking for reasons to justify why you're scared of black people it's ok, you're safe in your bedroom. the blacks won't loot you, shh, you're safe little bird
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Apr 28, 2015 06:16
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Baltimore firefighter expressing how unfortunate they were able to put the fire out on what appeared to be certain people's homes. edit: Yep it was a housing project. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 06:20 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:17
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I'm scared of black people as much as you are scared of admitting that black people looting isn't a great thing.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:17
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axeil posted:Why does it even matter if people are looting? It doesn't make the "hey the police are loving murdering us" argument any less correct. Do you view looting as a form of protest, or do you see it as incidental to the protests?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:17
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shrike82 posted:I'm scared of black people as much as you are scared of admitting that black people looting isn't a great thing. Where did anyone say it was a good thing? I've been saying it's a consequence of having the city's law enforcement act like an occupying army and there's plenty of historical evidence that when things get hosed in a city (pissed about British taxes, pissed about the Civil War draft, etc), people riot and loot. And because of that, it's silly to admonish the people of Baltimore for allowing people to loot in their city when all prior historical evidence says that looting will happen when a protest reaches a certain level of anger and the only way to prevent it is to not let things get that hosed in the first place. pacmania90 posted:Do you view looting as a form of protest, or do you see it as incidental to the protests? With the exception of the Boston Tea Party which was "let's steal this poo poo and destroy it because we hate taxes" I don't think people are going out there with the express intention of looting. axeil fucked around with this message at 06:21 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:18
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shrike82 posted:I'm fine if the argument is that white people loot so we should give black people equal opportunity to do so. I don't think anyone here is calling the looting a good thing. Could you show some evidence for that?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:20
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The entirety of the past few pages and all of Popular Thug's posts which boil down to "Calling looting bad somehow makes bad police look less bad"
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Apr 28, 2015 06:21
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axeil posted:Where did anyone say it was a good thing? it doesn't matter if anyone said this or not, the important thing is that we find reasons to explain why protesting against police brutality is actually a bad thing. if that means being hyper obsessed with looting like that's something that isn't a part of civil disturbance then so be it. we should applaud shrike82's bravery in admitting that whatever the blacks are doing, it's probably the wrong thing. not many people are so honest with their motivations
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Apr 28, 2015 06:21
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People riot and loot because they are angry and its an outlet. In this day and age some types of people do it because their undefeated basketball team loses in a semifinal, while other types of people do it because their kids are extrajudicially killed by the police. But its been going on forever in one form or another!
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Apr 28, 2015 06:22
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Case in pointPopular Thug Drink posted:it doesn't matter if anyone said this or not, the important thing is that we find reasons to explain why protesting against police brutality is actually a bad thing. if that means being hyper obsessed with looting like that's something that isn't a part of civil disturbance then so be it. we should applaud shrike82's bravery in admitting that whatever the blacks are doing, it's probably the wrong thing
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Apr 28, 2015 06:22
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shrike82 posted:The entirety of the past few pages and all of Popular Thug's posts which boil down to "Calling looting bad somehow makes bad police look less bad" Because "looting is bad" is a dogwhistle for "those blacks shouldn't be getting all uppity." When's the last time anyone ever decried the destruction of property in the Boston Tea Party instead of pointing out that it was a way for the Colonists to express their anger at over-taxation by the British? Parody Threads posted:People riot and loot because they are angry and its an outlet. In this day and age some types of people do it because their undefeated basketball team loses in a semifinal, while other types of people do it because their kids are extrajudicially killed by the police. But its been going on forever in one form or another! All the way back to the time of Ceasar actually. After he got assassinated a mob ran through Rome burning down buildings and killed Cinna. axeil fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:23
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shrike82 posted:The entirety of the past few pages and all of Popular Thug's posts which boil down to "Calling looting bad somehow makes bad police look less bad" Quote an actual post saying that looting is good. Don't paraphrase it.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:24
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How is it a dogwhistle when blacks are actually looting?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:24
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shrike82 posted:How is it a dogwhistle when blacks are actually looting? Why are you obsessed with this argument, it's like somebody arguing that guns kill people.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:24
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People who wonder how rioters could poo poo on their own communities have never seriously thought about the answer to their question.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:25
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Also police should know better than to do this stupid poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oERciGvVbE Policemen throwing rocks back at students without any kind of backup, and put themselves in a situation they created. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 06:28 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:25
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Nonsense posted:Why are you obsessed with this argument, it's like somebody arguing that guns kill people. Yikes, talk about taking agency away from black people.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:26
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shrike82 posted:How is it a dogwhistle when blacks are actually looting? because you're focusing for some mysterious reason on the small group of people doing violent things to discredit the protest as well as people supporting the protest it's almost like you don't really care about the looting. it's almost like you're actually just interested in venting at the protesters for some odd reason. in fact you're so intent on being upset at people that you're willing to completely ignore what people are actually saying so you can proudly declare your steadfast opposition to the destruction of property, like this is some thunderclap insight you've just had
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Apr 28, 2015 06:26
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shrike82 posted:Yikes, talk about taking agency away from black people. Yes you are having an academic argument at the moment, and not just racist poo poo posting. Start posting an academic argument before busting out terms you don't understand.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:27
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axeil posted:Or in the case of the 1863 NYC Draft Riots because black people actually exist. A whole bunch of white folks turned NYC into a hellhole for three days. And that's just one example of many, of white people rioting and murdering black people. Here's another one, where an entire black neighborhood was burned down, and up to 300 people were killed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_riot They even conducted air raids against fleeing blacks. And the state of Oklahoma basically pretended it didn't happen for 80 years.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:27
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At this point, I think it's been firmly established that shrike's just going to keep on yammering the same old point again and again. He's not actually arguing in any real way, why bother responding to him? I mean, it's kind of an easy win, really, but it's like the debate form of empty calories.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:because you're focusing for some mysterious reason on the small group of people doing violent things to discredit the protest as well as people supporting the protest This is why it's a dogwhistle. No one actually thinks burning buildings down and looting is good but when it's all anyone talks about and they use it as a means to discredit a protest, well, it's hard to think they're really upset about the looting and instead are just looking for a convenient way to dismiss the grievances of the protesters.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:28
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True, debating about whether it's looting or not is kinda pointless at this stage, it's too difficult to pretend otherwise given the level of media coverage. I wonder what it'd have been like if there was the such back during the civil rights movement.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:29
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axeil posted:This is why it's a dogwhistle. No one actually thinks burning buildings down and looting is good but when it's all anyone talks about and they use it as a means to discredit a protest, well, it's hard to think they're really upset about the looting and instead are just looking for a convenient way to dismiss the grievances of the protesters. Remember that people utilized slashing car tires to discredit OWS, and you know not the litany of actual issues with the movement.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:29
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axeil posted:This is why it's a dogwhistle. No one actually thinks burning buildings down and looting is good but when it's all anyone talks about and they use it as a means to discredit a protest, well, it's hard to think they're really upset about the looting and instead are just looking for a convenient way to dismiss the grievances of the protesters. actually, i think it's good. i hate the private ownership of things. i am a marxist. i think looting is good. i think it's good as hell
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Apr 28, 2015 06:29
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shrike82 posted:I wonder what it'd have been like if there was the such back during the civil rights movement. i already told you that there was, and people used the same arguments to explain why the blacks just needed to settle down and vote for politicans who would give them civil rights eventually you don't even realize that you're making the same arguments segregationists made, because you don't care. you're just reacting emotionally at people on the internet who are making you feel bad
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Apr 28, 2015 06:31
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pacmania90 posted:Quote an actual post saying that looting is good. Don't paraphrase it. Like I said Popular Thug Drink posted:actually, i think it's good. i hate the private ownership of things. i am a marxist. i think looting is good. i think it's good as hell
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Apr 28, 2015 06:31
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shrike82 posted:Like I said Even if I think he's off base there it doesn't change the fact that he's spot on re: dogwhistling and you being the heir of some seriously bad lines of thought.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:33
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