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Although the looters are ultimately responsible for their crimes, I think the police are partially responsible for creating the conditions that gave rise to the protests in the first place.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:34
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I think it's sad that white posters are cheering on black people looting on some masturbatory anarchist fantasies.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:35
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Police are utilizing strobing flashlights against photographers and streamers, as they did in Ferguson.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:35
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shrike82 posted:True, debating about whether it's looting or not is kinda pointless at this stage, it's too difficult to pretend otherwise given the level of media coverage. Yeah the Columbia Avenue Riots never happened  http://northerncity.library.temple.edu/content/collections/columbia-avenue-riots/what-interpretative-essay quote:On the night of August 28, 1964, officers Robert Wells and John Hoff responded to a domestic dispute at the corner of 22nd Street and Columbia Avenue. As the officers attempted to resolve the conflict between Odessa Bradford and her husband Rush, the commotion attracted a crowd, which subsequently attacked the police with bricks and other debris. Rumor and misinformation, specifically that a black pregnant woman had been beaten to death by a white policeman, fed the disorder and what began as a minor police incident erupted into a riot that consumed North Philadelphia for days. In the end, order was largely restored by September 1st, but debates over the meaning of the riots and their civil rights implications have endured, specifically the question of whether the riots on Columbia Avenue were a civil rights issue and, if so, a civil rights issue for whom. While looters argued they were laying claim to wealth and power that was otherwise denied, prominent civil rights activists were quick to distance their campaigns from the rioters’ actions and associate the riots with black militants. For their part, many of the neighborhood’s Jewish business-owners saw the riots as a modern-day pogrom and charged that anti-Semitism, not civil rights, was at issue and that police responded ineffectually to the chaos that ensued. As these divergent viewpoints attest, the legacy of the Columbia Avenue riots is as complex and heated as the riots themselves and raises compelling questions about the riots’ significance as a “civil rights moment.” Notice how the whole thing plays out the same way things do now?
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Apr 28, 2015 06:36
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shrike82 posted:I think it's sad that white posters are cheering on black people looting on some masturbatory anarchist fantasies. One person is cheering on the looting and they're only doing it to piss you off. edit: There's been some pictures of people stealing toilet paper. Who loving steals toilet paper unless they're in a really bad spot? Are they really worth attacking? pacmania90 fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:37
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shrike82 posted:I think it's sad that white posters are cheering on black people looting on some masturbatory anarchist fantasies. I think it's really, really sad that you're really concerned about minor looting when the country systematically opresses an entire race of folks.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:38
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SomeIdiot posted:At this point, I think it's been firmly established that shrike's just going to keep on yammering the same old point again and again. He's not actually arguing in any real way, why bother responding to him? I mean, it's kind of an easy win, really, but it's like the debate form of empty calories. This whole riot discussion is a diversion anyhow. We all agree we don't like riots. Dead people killed by the state however, is far more worrying.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:38
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Parody Threads posted:I think it's really, really sad that you're really concerned about minor looting when the country systematically opresses and entire race of folks. Excuse me I believe it is racist anti-whites that are the mad ones in his reality.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:38
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Nah, he's been consistent enough about it looking at his post history and the same applies to a lot of the posters cheering on the looting itt. It's gross to jack off from the unrest knowing that at the end of the day, the black kids go to jail and people like popular thug feel smug about it.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:39
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axeil posted:Because "looting is bad" is a dogwhistle for "those blacks shouldn't be getting all uppity." Wow, you wouldn't think that Freddie Grey's family, the Nation of Islam, various black church leaders in Baltimore, as well as members of the Bloods and Crips were all anti-black racists. You've really opened my eyes. And of course to that you can add various known Klansmembers like Loretta Lynch and Elijah Cummings.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:40
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Certain people just can't get over the sight of certain other people stealing poo poo for themselves during civil unrest, no matter how understandable or justified that civil unrest is. Once they see a bunch of people with mischievous smiles pouring out of a corner bodega with armfuls of cheap snacks all of the injustice leading up to that moment is moot.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:40
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The Insect Court posted:Wow, you wouldn't think that Freddie Grey's family, the Nation of Islam, various black church leaders in Baltimore, as well as members of the Bloods and Crips were all anti-black racists. You've really opened my eyes. And of course to that you can add various known Klansmembers like Loretta Lynch and Elijah Cummings. Yeah man, folks should genuinely give a poo poo what an anti-Semitic organization like the Nation of Islam says about poor black Americans inside their insulated millionaire bubble.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:42
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Certain people just can't get over the sight of certain other people stealing poo poo for themselves during civil unrest, no matter how understandable or justified that civil unrest is. Once they see a bunch of people with mischievous smiles pouring out of a corner bodega with armfuls of cheap snacks all of the injustice leading up to that moment is moot. "Wow this police brutality is really bad, maybe we should do something about fixing things." "No way! I saw some guy on TV steal some Fritos from a 7-11, thereby invalditating the whole protest. Clearly it's not so bad, they just wanted free stuff  "The Insect Court posted:Wow, you wouldn't think that Freddie Grey's family, the Nation of Islam, various black church leaders in Baltimore, as well as members of the Bloods and Crips were all anti-black racists. You've really opened my eyes. And of course to that you can add various known Klansmembers like Loretta Lynch and Elijah Cummings. This might blow your mind but black leaders are saying looting is bad because they know it discredits what they're arguing for with white people. White people saying looting is bad is a convenient way to ignore the rationale behind the protests/riots. Two groups can make statements against something for wildly different reasons. nm posted:No, they put themselves in the shoes of the people who are losing the stuff, which is understandable. Riots are terrifying and they're scared it could happen to them. This is also a good point. White folks can identify with someone who's store gets busted up because hey, lots of white people own stores. They might know someone who owns one or they might be a store owner themselves. But they can't imagine themselves a victim of police brutality because almost all victims of police brutality are black. axeil fucked around with this message at 06:46 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 06:42
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Rhesus Pieces posted:Certain people just can't get over the sight of certain other people stealing poo poo for themselves during civil unrest, no matter how understandable or justified that civil unrest is. Once they see a bunch of people with mischievous smiles pouring out of a corner bodega with armfuls of cheap snacks all of the injustice leading up to that moment is moot. No, they put themselves in the shoes of the people who are losing the stuff, which is understandable. Riots are terrifying and they're scared it could happen to them. However, they never seem to put themselves in the shoes of the poor black men getting killed or their families. Well, because why would they, they're white and not homeless, it won't happen to them.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:43
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axeil posted:"Wow this police brutality is really bad, maybe we should do something about fixing things." Lmao like the people getting really upset about the rioting were ever upset at the police brutality ("don't run and you won't get shot!!1")
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Apr 28, 2015 06:45
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axeil posted:Yeah the Columbia Avenue Riots never happened I'm kinda confused how pointing out that he's saying the same things the black civil rights leaders said is supposed to be some sort of gotcha.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:45
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Also, all these cops sure picked a terrible time to start being racist and brutal, I personally would have started much earlier and stopped waaay before widespread adoption of cell phones.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:47
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Parody Threads posted:Lmao like the people getting really upset about the rioting were ever upset at the police brutality ("don't run and you won't get shot!!1") Oh, darn. Well, would you look at that. I was thiiiiis close to supporting the protesters against police brutality, really I was. I was going to write a sternly worded letter to my Congressman tomorrow, I had it all planned out in my head. But then I saw those people there at that protest, they were throwing things, and stealing things, and I thought, do they represent me? Do they represent my values? No, they do not. So now I have to say that, sadly, I think the police are doing the right thing. They brought it on themselves, really.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:47
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axeil posted:The Boston Tea Party, aka the most famous American riot/protest was entirely about looting and destroying private property, so if people venerate that I think it's pretty hypocritical to slam the riot/protest in Baltimore for having people looting stuff. Amazingly, as I drew this fun metaphor to almost a hyperbolic level tonight, people in authority had the hardest time drawing the parallel.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:49
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Parody Threads posted:Also, all these cops sure picked a terrible time to start being racist and brutal, I personally would have started much earlier and stopped waaay before widespread adoption of cell phones. They were actively throwing rocks at students, and placed themselves in a situation where they probably could have killed students when the students of course reciprocated their treatment.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:49
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shrike82 posted:It's gross to jack off from the unrest knowing that at the end of the day, the black kids go to jail and people like popular thug feel smug about it. Actually, black kids get murdered by cops, and this happens whether there's looting happening or not.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:49
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Oh, darn. Well, would you look at that. I was thiiiiis close to supporting the protesters against police brutality, really I was. I was going to write a sternly worded letter to my Congressman tomorrow, I had it all planned out in my head. But then I saw those people there at that protest, they were throwing things, and stealing things, and I thought, do they represent me? Do they represent my values? No, they do not. So now I have to say that, sadly, I think the police are doing the right thing. They brought it on themselves, really. The sad thing is, this isn't even a strawman. During the Ferguson riots I talked with so many people who went from "oh yeah this seems bad" to "gently caress them, they're burning buildings and stealing stuff, maybe the cops are right after all." It ends up moving people on the fence off the fence and the more  side of me thinks that the police know this happens and try to incite protesters into a riot so they can get more support.UnmaskedGremlin posted:Amazingly, as I drew this fun metaphor to almost a hyperbolic level tonight, people in authority had the hardest time drawing the parallel. I think it's a really good parallel because in both cases had the people in power just sat down and listened to why people were so pissed and tried to address it a lot of pain and bloodshed could've been avoided.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:50
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VitalSigns posted:Actually, black kids get murdered by cops, and this happens whether there's looting happening or not. So I guess looting isn't very productive then.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:50
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shrike82 posted:So I guess looting isn't very productive then. It's not productive. It sucks and it makes me sad that people are put in a position where it makes sense in their mind to do it. gently caress you if you don't understand this. Not even kidding. Just gently caress you.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:53
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shrike82 posted:So I guess looting isn't very productive then. Correct. It is, however, a predictable consequence of state-perpetrated and -sanctioned murder, so if we want to remove one catalyst for looting that's the place to look, rather than wringing our hands about "but how could this happen, do the common people have no respect?"
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Apr 28, 2015 06:57
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In capitalist society, the most horrifying thing to see during civil unrest is people taking things without paying.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:01
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chitoryu12 posted:Nobody ever cares about the downtrodden until they force you to pay attention to them. Truth.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:04
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Protesting is detrimental to the cause of the protest. You aren't raising awareness you are opening an opportunity for your message to by hijacked by rioters. How many times does this need to happen before it sinks in. Voting and Money are what matters, this should be the focus of these groups. Chanting up and down the street does nothing and as we keep seeing when violence breaks out it destroys your base of support. No one in politics is going to take the side of the looters. If you want to look at an effective organization, look at the NRA. They have members who will cross party lines to protect their interests and congress bends over backwards to make the NRA happy. That is the influence needed for change. Hell if you want to look at an effective community effort look at the Hasidic community Williamsburg, NY. They pretty much got their own police force and the cops stay out. Because they are organized and vote in blocks.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:27
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Foma posted:Protesting is detrimental to the cause of the protest. You aren't raising awareness you are opening an opportunity for your message to by hijacked by rioters. How many times does this need to happen before it sinks in. Lmao voting and money, those should be easy to get these days.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:31
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Foma posted:
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Apr 28, 2015 07:33
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Voting and Money are what matters
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Foma posted:Post OK. But this is already happening. Civil rights groups, lobbying blocs, hundreds of advocacy groups and millions of dollars are involved, people vote and participate in politics to change the system the "right" way. Yet things continue on as before. Why do you think this is?
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Apr 28, 2015 07:36
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Parody Threads posted:Lmao voting and money, those should be easy to get these days. You've got to get creative. If you need to buy some civil rights legislation, just take out an $80 million loan from your parents instead of rioting.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:38
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Foma posted:Protesting is detrimental to the cause of the protest. You aren't raising awareness you are opening an opportunity for your message to by hijacked by rioters. How many times does this need to happen before it sinks in. Why don't poor people just use their money!!!!!!!
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Apr 28, 2015 07:38
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axeil posted:Because "looting is bad" is a dogwhistle for "those blacks shouldn't be getting all uppity." When's the last time anyone ever decried the destruction of property in the Boston Tea Party instead of pointing out that it was a way for the Colonists to express their anger at over-taxation by the British?
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Apr 28, 2015 07:39
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Foma posted:Protesting is detrimental to the cause of the protest. Black Americans are always wrong, and it gets worse!
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Apr 28, 2015 07:40
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Rexicon1 posted:Why don't poor people just use their money!!!!!!! The current mayor and previous mayor of Baltimore are both black women, so obviously it's not an impossible strategy.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:41
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Dead Reckoning posted:Well, the main difference was that the colonists weren't dragging chests of untaxed tea back to their houses. They also deliberately chose a symbolic target rather than kicking over the dry goods store closest to where they lived. Personally and directly profiting from an act of protest compromises its message. the ringleaders of the tea party were tea smugglers largely protesting tax cuts given to the EIC to allow them to undercut the smuggler's prices (and profits) as always, the apologists come out of the woodwork to explain away the crimes of the criminal white community. why can't you just admit that the boston tea party was a criminal act and the perpetrators deserved to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law?
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Apr 28, 2015 07:44
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Rexicon1 posted:Why don't poor people just use their money!!!!!!! That is why I referenced Williamsburg, a really impoverished area (33% of people are on the dole,60% poverty rate) whose community leaders wield an incredible amount of political power.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:46
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What are you nerds talking about that you don't get why people would wanna loot a place? You know that most people don't actually believe that any protest or riot, violent or nonviolent or any action at all that could ever be taken by a group of mostly poor people could ever change the status quo in America, right? So if something like that is going on why would you worry about delegitimizing it in the eyes of the media or racist rich white people or whoever when you could be getting a free TV or something out of it?
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Apr 28, 2015 07:46
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Dead Reckoning posted:Well, the main difference was that the colonists weren't dragging chests of untaxed tea back to their houses. They also deliberately chose a symbolic target rather than kicking over the dry goods store closest to where they lived. Personally and directly profiting from an act of protest compromises its message. Wait what. The whole point of the protest was to destroy the tea Britain was bringing in with lower duties to drive smugglers out of business, and of course the tea smugglers wanted to get rid of the competition. The leaders profited very much from the destruction of the tea. Jesus Christ, the state of Americans' knowledge of their own history is just sad.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:49
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