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Tonight's state dinner features a selection of both silverware and chopsticks for guests.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:37
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Fried Chicken posted:So we can add statistics to the list of things Fishmech doesn't understand. A list that goes from a few huge cities to some big ones with a long tail of smaller ones is a normal power distribution and exactly what you would expect. It also makes the "some big ones" large relative to most of them - you know, the large tail. 58 out of 295 isn't "relatively small" no matter how many times you screech about it. I understand it just fine. There's a bunch of small and tiny cities in America, and St Louis is one of them! No matter how much you whine about it's smaller and more irrelevant every day.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:38
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It's really nice seeing terrible posters telling other terrible posters they're terrible.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:38
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ohgodwhat posted:I too think "city" and "metropolitan statistical area" are one and the same, hence having the exact same definition, and lists of population by "city" and by "MSA" are identical. I too think that fishmeching a thread is productive in any way. (no I don't) Samurai Sanders posted:In situations like these, who usually ends up treating the protesters better, the national guard or the riot police? When the Guard was in Ferguson after the verdict, they had two roles. One, they sealed off the mile of West Florissant where the majority of the burning took place. Two, they acted as a reserve in critical locations like the police HQ allowing the police to be mobile through the protest crowds. Just by that, the cops were far worse on the protesters because the guard wasn't really doing anything but being heavily armed men telling you to stand the gently caress back. But it really depends on how the governor, mayor, and scene commander wants to use them. I don't think that a mayor or governor, especially in an area with a significant black population, is going to want to deal with the optics of sending troops in full combat gear to attack protesters.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:40
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Between Fishmech, Amergin, and MIGF dominating the last 30 pages I feel like this thread could do with some of that sweet curfew action.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:42
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:Between Fishmech, Amergin, and MIGF dominating the last 30 pages I feel like this thread could do with some of that sweet curfew action. They closed the schools so Fishmech can't attend his statistics class. It's not his fault. He's the product of a broken system.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:48
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Joementum posted:Tonight's state dinner features a selection of both silverware and chopsticks for guests.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:48
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ErIog posted:They closed the schools so Fishmech can't attend his statistics class. It's not his fault. He's the product of a broken system. Yet another person who doesn't understand how statistics works because they have to defend the honor of a failed city.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:52
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My god he's going in for the kill watch out you gonna get clowned on
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Apr 28, 2015 13:54
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:Are chopsticks not usually on the rotation? Obama's America smh Shinzō Abe, Japan's prime minister, is in town. So I'm guessing it's for that? 
Drastic Actions fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 13:55
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Drastic Actions posted:Shinzō Abe, Japan's prime minister, is in town. So I'm guessing it's for that? 
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Apr 28, 2015 13:57
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If St. Louis is so great, why don't its benches say so? Checkmate, Midwestailures!  
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Apr 28, 2015 13:59
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Nintendo Kid posted:Yeah and when people dare to mention it's because way more people are in a large city than a tiny suburb of a small city, all of a sudden the whiner brigade goes donkeyshit over how unfair people are being to the white flight suburbs not being counted. Nah it's more that you're using technical legal definitions people don't really use in casual conversation because it's weird. When people say Boston they're not referring only to 48 square miles.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:05
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Quote of the morning, "Winning GOP message: Against anarchy & chaos, at home & abroad. Cheney-Giuliani 2016 probably too much to hope for...But if not them, who?" ~ Bill Kristol.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:06
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Joementum posted:If St. Louis is so great, why don't its benches say so? Checkmate, Midwestailures! Oh thank god the Barnes & Noble is secure. Bravo team, report to Starbucks for mocha lattes and orange scones!
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Apr 28, 2015 14:08
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sugar free jazz posted:Nah it's more that you're using technical legal definitions people don't really use in casual conversation because it's weird. When people say Boston they're not referring only to 48 square miles. Yeah, I refer to Yale as being in NYC all the time and nobody cares.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:10
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sugar free jazz posted:Nah it's more that you're using technical legal definitions people don't really use in casual conversation because it's weird. When people say Boston they're not referring only to 48 square miles. When one says they're from Boston though, you call bullshit if they clarify with "I'm from Lawrence" (a town 30 miles away and almost in NH). But that's what you're saying is acceptable for St Louis? Ridiculous. Hell, Providence, RI counts as being in "Boston", if you go with the maximalist definition of St Louis required to boost it over 2 million. Also of note: tiny in land Boston packs in 650,000 people all on its own.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:14
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Joementum posted:Tonight's state dinner features a selection of both silverware and chopsticks for guests. This table seems cramped. Do they remove the flowers when the meal is served or are you just not supposed to see the guy across from you?
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Apr 28, 2015 14:16
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Nintendo Kid posted:Also of note: tiny in land Boston packs in 650,000 people all on its own. You're comparing the St. Louis metro area to the Baltimore political unit. You're a loving idiot. That's apples and oranges. Also, we're talking about Baltimore, not Boston, hope that helps. Second also, metro boundaries crossing state lines is not unheard of. Political divisions are of secondary importance compared to where the gently caress people actually live. ErIog fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:17
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Nintendo Kid posted:Also of note: tiny in land Boston packs in 650,000 people all on its own. Are you trying to equivocate real estate cost on a coast line with an urban area smack dab in the middle of nowhere?
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Apr 28, 2015 14:20
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ErIog posted:You're comparing the St. Louis metro area to the Baltimore political unit. No I am not, I am specifically not comparing the two. I'm comparing city to city and that made you upset! Gravel Gravy posted:Are you trying to equivocate real estate cost on a coast line with an urban area smack dab in the middle of nowhere? No, I'm just comparing population flat out with no malice towards low density (even though St Louis is a hollowed out husk that's lost almost 63% from its peak population). ErIog posted:
Nobody said they were, just that people would think you were idiotic for claiming you were from Boston when you were born, raised and lived all your life in the literal capital of another state, even though they're in the same metro area. See also: no you're not from NYC when you grew up and live in Nassau County or fuckin' Greenwich. No you're not from Philadelphia when you're from Delaware.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:23
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Miami: a hayseed town only slightly larger than St. Louis. Jacksonville: an urban megalopolis of nearly 850,000.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:32
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Stop. Responding. To. Fishmech.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:35
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Gravel Gravy posted:Oh thank god the Barnes & Noble is secure. Bravo team, report to Starbucks for mocha lattes and orange scones! lmao
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Apr 28, 2015 14:35
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All the cops know Tazo Chai gets the taste of pepper spray and burned family-owned businesses out of your mouth better than mocha, GOD.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:38
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I think people a lot familiar with stats and poo poo determine this kinda thing. Within the general metropolitan area there probably is a cultural overlap, a lot of people outside of city limits probably travel to the city for work, and the towns within metro areas would mostly die off without the large city and the benefits it brings to the table.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:39
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^^^ without knowing the lit, I'm gonna guess it's actually something geographers don't agree on and there's like fifteen different definitions all with fairly good arguments backing them up and positives and negatives to each definition. Welcome to the social sciences, it's not physics.Nintendo Kid posted:When one says they're from Boston though, you call bullshit if they clarify with "I'm from Lawrence" (a town 30 miles away and almost in NH). But that's what you're saying is acceptable for St Louis? Ridiculous. Hell, Providence, RI counts as being in "Boston", if you go with the maximalist definition of St Louis required to boost it over 2 million. lmao no you don't. Well you probably do, but I don't. It's a mega weird move to be like "Oh yeah I know where you're from better than you do." Personally I was actually thinking more of in terms of self identification, I don't think people from Providence, RI self identify as being from Boston. But for specific things the Boston CSA is probably very useful and a very acceptable definition of the city, probably in terms of economic influence and how the lives of those within the area are centered around Boston. I'm not a geographer though so ymmv. Not sure why you dislike that specific technical definition so much. There's nothing wrong with a city crossing state lines fwiw. sugar free jazz fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:40
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This derail started because someone answered the question of why this is generating a bigger response than Ferguson, with the (correct) answer that downtown Baltimore is a bigger deal on the national scale than downtown Ferguson. This is not a controversial statement. The poster was not justifying it or saying it was fair. I know we're pissed off but you really don't need to devour each other over this.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:42
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Dr. Tough posted:Miami: a hayseed town only slightly larger than St. Louis. Jacksonville: an urban megalopolis of nearly 850,000. When discussing city of Miami vs city of Jacksonville services that is a pretty important consideration. "Miami metropolitan area" doesn't pay "City of Miami" taxes. Also recall that fishmech won "smartest kid in america" in a contest that required you to correct an opponent's mistake to score a point. Think about that for a second. hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:43
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Tender Bender posted:This derail started because someone answered the question of why this is generating a bigger response than Ferguson, with the (correct) answer that downtown Baltimore is a bigger deal on the national scale than downtown Ferguson. This is not a controversial statement. The poster was not justifying it or saying it was fair. I know we're pissed off but you really don't need to devour each other over this. People involved in this discussion understand that! The reason it's being discussed is because the Ferguson vs. St. Louis distinction is entirely purposeful, and it has a political impact on the events at hand. It does matter in terms of the national media coverage. However, if the journalists were doing their actual job instead of rewriting police department press releases then it probably wouldn't. That's an interesting point of discussion. Handwaving it away with "the Baltimore proper political unit is larger than the Ferguson proper political unit" is part of the problem. hobbesmaster posted:When discussing city of Miami vs city of Jacksonville services that is a pretty important consideration. "Miami metropolitan area" doesn't pay "City of Miami" taxes. Fishmech is pretty dumb, but very useful in this discussion as he represents how journalists approach writing their stories. If you punch the search terms into Google then Fishmech is correct. If you think about it for more than 2 seconds, though, it falls apart. It's a textbook example of "technically correct, but basically wrong." ErIog fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:47
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sugar free jazz posted:lmao no you don't. Well you probably do, but I don't. It's a mega weird move to be like "Oh yeah I know where you're from better than you do." People who are from the far-flung suburbs and exurbs may choose to claim they're from the city, but everyone knows they aren't. Don't give me this self-identification crap. Most people from the St Louis greater metropolitan area probably wouldn't claim to be from St Louis, especially when so many of them continue to actively leave the city or refuse to move back in after their parents/grandparents did. I'm sorry but you're not using any sort of technical definition from actual American geography when you're saying "its ok to say you're in Boston when you're dozens of miles outside even the inner suburbs/subcities". Cities that actually cross state lines are very rare. Usually it's a situation like Bristol TN/VA or Texarkana TX/AR where it's a moderately sized town split across a land border such that the transition is close to seamless. ErIog posted:People involved in this discussion understand that! The reason it's being discussed is because the Baltimore vs. St. Louis distinction is entirely purposeful, and it has a political impact on the events at hand. It does matter in terms of the national media coverage. However, if the journalists were doing their actual job instead of rewriting police department press releases then it probably wouldn't. That's an interesting point of discussion. Handwaving it away with "the Baltimore proper political unit is larger than the Ferguson proper political unit" is part of the problem. But that's literally WHY people pay way more attention to Baltimore! It's bigger! More people live there and frankly have even heard of it! Similarly if this movement spread to say Chicago it'd get even more attention because that's an even bigger and more inherently news-grabbing place. ErIog posted:
No, sorry, it's just straight up correct. Cities are real things that exist and can be compared and contrasted, and no one considers whiteflightsburgs to be part of their populations' original cities.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:49
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hobbesmaster posted:When discussing city of Miami vs city of Jacksonville services that is a pretty important consideration. "Miami metropolitan area" doesn't pay "City of Miami" taxes. Miami is different insofar as Miami itself isn't necessarily the center of Miami. The University is in Coral Gables. Miami Beach is its own city. And all the different jurisdictions grew a bit more organically, like Coral Gables wasn't Miami's white flight. Miami was incorporated in 1896, Coral Gables in 1925. e: Miami is younger than Ferguson WhiskeyJuvenile fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:51
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Nintendo Kid posted:But that's literally WHY people pay way more attention to Baltimore! It's bigger! More people live there and frankly have even heard of it! Well, that and that it's in easy driving distance of Washington, D.C. A lot of the reporting in the last 24 hours is from D.C. journalists taking a short road trip.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:52
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Seven Force posted:I'm high and I do not enjoy fm derails. Agreed, Amergin please save us!
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Apr 28, 2015 14:52
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ErIog posted:Fishmech is pretty dumb, but very useful in this discussion as he represents how journalists approach writing their stories. If you punch the search terms into Google then Fishmech is correct. If you think about it for more than 2 seconds, though, it falls apart. It's a textbook example of "technically correct, but basically wrong." That's because fishmech finds talking points from google and wraps them in exhausting pedantry.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:54
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Nonsense posted:Rather than watch an idiot wander around a city as though he's in the Egyptian desert, watch an actual reporter with actual interviews
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Apr 28, 2015 14:54
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FAUXTON posted:That's because fishmech finds talking points from google and wraps them in exhausting pedantry. Show the pedantry, dude. Seriously normal people don't consider the suburbs the same as the city. It's a basic concept children can understand.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:00
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Azuth0667 posted:Agreed, Amergin please save us! To quote that black dude from youtube, they look like a bunch of fuckin' monkeys out there jumping on cars and poo poo. EDIT: But seriously, as soon as looting happens you kill any progress you've tried to make with regards to race relations. Good luck ever garnering sympathy when as soon as one of your own dies you respond by looting 7-Elevens. There's a reason you're kept in the ghetto. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 28, 2015 15:01
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Joementum posted:Quote of the morning, "Winning GOP message: Against anarchy & chaos, at home & abroad. Cheney-Giuliani 2016 probably too much to hope for...But if not them, who?" ~ Bill Kristol. I know this is a high bar to clear, but that might be the most ludicrous idea Bill Kristol has ever had.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:04
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Oh a bunch of new posts I wonder what - oh oh dear What's the latest from the authorities in Baltimore anyway?
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Apr 28, 2015 15:08
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