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As for Ukrainian economy: the National Bank of Ukraine just reported that Q1 contraction corresponds to 15% annual rate. (I don't know how they deal with the whole "part of country occupied" bit, though). On an unrelated, more positive note: what an adorable troops inspector:  (Got the posture down pat!)
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Apr 28, 2015 14:40
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OddObserver posted:On an unrelated, more positive note: what an adorable troops inspector: Edit: Looks like something went off in Russian base/camp near Ukraine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDrAsVTK9Iw cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 14:50 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:43
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kalstrams posted:Is this part of some event somewhere? Yeah --- from some police officers returning home to Poltava from the front: http://kolo.poltava.ua/reaktsiya-gromadi/foto-z-poltavi-obletilo-internet-a-malechu-ohrestili-generalsheyu-26080.html Edit: also http://kolo.poltava.ua/reaktsiya-gromadi/foto-dvorichnoyi-poltavki-iz-biitsyami-zrobilo-yiyi-znamenitistyu-26086.html Apparently the girl is two, and was greeting her dad, in a folk costume she got as a present from her grandma. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 14:50
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OddObserver posted:Yeah --- from some police officers returning home to Poltava from the front:
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Apr 28, 2015 14:51
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kalstrams posted:Zlatoust, 2013: This one might actually be tongue in cheek instead of oblivious. Hoisting the flag was a symbolic act of victory. They used one of the most iconic photos of a US victory and wrote "This is our victory." next to it. That seems a little more deliberate than the other two.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:55
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SaltyJesus posted:This one might actually be tongue in cheek instead of oblivious. Hoisting the flag was a symbolic act of victory. They used one of the most iconic photos of a US victory and wrote "This is our victory." next to it. That seems a little more deliberate than the other two.
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Apr 28, 2015 14:59
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kalstrams posted:
It said they fought for homeland. It never said which one. 
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Apr 28, 2015 15:00
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Russian propaganda is never as oblivious or as cunning as it appears.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:01
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Forums Terrorist posted:It said they fought for homeland. It never said which one.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:03
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kalstrams posted:From my perspective, this is what happened - you came into my argument with someone else to argue about unrelated matter, and when I pointed that out you replied with "by the way guys, did you know that there's war in Ukraine?" I tried to explain that, and then you came up with whatever the hidden subject bollocks were meant to be. I wasn't in a particular argument with anyone. I do think the minimum wage being frozen is actually tangential to the war. quote:As for minimal wage thing, yes, if I think about it more, then there seems to be little reason for lack of respective adjustments. Per Monday's Ukrainian statistics bureau report, as ZN reports, real salaries have decreased 24.1% compared to March 2014, 4.1% to February 2015. Since I'm economically retarded, does 15% fall of Ukrainian economy compared to Q1 of 2014 mean that they can rise it for 24.1 - 15 = 9.1% ? Well I am talking about in nominal terms, not only has the minimum wage been frozen/declined in real terms, but in nominal terms as well. Raising the minimum wage in nominal terms may help slow the fall in real term wages, but ultimately much of it is due to which direction the Hryvnia is going and that is difficult to predict. That said, I think the issue is help stabilize the poorest off with what ever tools they have left. According to published statistics, Ukrainian nominal wages have moderately risen (but obviously greatly declined in real terms). Wages and gdp are really separate things, however I do think keeping minimum wages frozen is helping promote that decline in GDP rather slowing it. Ultimately, though the decline in the Hryvnia is probably hurting both wages, and then indirectly GDP by undermining consumer spending (imports have fallen like a rock). Ukraine actually has a trade surplus, but unfortunately it is because imports have fallen even quicker than exports. Hopefully this makes some sense, it may sound like I am just talking in a circle. kalstrams posted:Makes you think even more considering that Ribbon of Saint George is named after Saint George, a Christian martyr, and Soviet Union had elimination of religion as an ideological objective. Much of that shift is because of Stalin, who went from blowing up churches and eradicating the clergy to allowing very modest religiosity during the war. Edit: I think the St.George Ribbon itself kind of speaks about the rather syncretic-frankenstein nature of modern Russian nationalism which pulls from Russian Orthodoxy, the Soviet Union and Tsarist Russia all at the same time. In a sense it pleases most people, but not in at all a logical manner. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 15:18
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Of course, St. George died in Turkey.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:19
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Ardennes posted:
Yeah, a couple of days ago I saw photo with a sign about how no true Christian can oppose Lenin. Can't find it, though.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:29
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Ardennes posted:I wasn't in a particular argument with anyone. I do think the minimum wage being frozen is actually tangential to the war. Ardennes posted:Well I am talking about in nominal terms, not only has the minimum wage been frozen/declined in real terms, but in nominal terms as well. Raising the minimum wage in nominal terms may help slow the fall in real term wages, but ultimately much of it is due to which direction the Hryvnia is going and that is difficult to predict. That said, I think the issue is help stabilize the poorest off with what ever tools they have left.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:35
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kalstrams posted:Beats me then how was I supposed to guess that you replied to me without any intent to take part in discussion. To me, an argument around here usually means a chasm in opinion. I don't know where his family came from or why (I probably just missed it), but Ukraine before the crisis was certainly was quite different. kalstrams posted:Well it makes some sense. Economists wouldn't exist if this poo poo wouldn't be complicated. I think part of it as about terminology and looking at how the pieces fit together and function. Economics sort of like a wordy puzzle with calculus that people love to disagree about how to solve. Sounds like fun right? However, if you are interested in looking at the basics of Western mainstream economics, the 19th edition of Samuelson's "Economics" is pretty good. it is old but relatively easy to pick up, and relatively neutral as far as politics goes. That said, you can always pick up Das Kapital afterwards to compare and contrast. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 15:54
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Ardennes posted:To me, an argument around here usually means a chasm in opinion. I don't know where his family came from or why (I probably just missed it), but Ukraine before the crisis was certainly was quite different. Ardennes posted:I think part of it as about terminology and looking at how the pieces fit together and function. Economics sort of like a wordy puzzle with calculus that people love to disagree about how to solve. Sounds like fun right? Ardennes posted:However, if you are interested in looking at the basics, the 19th edition of Samuelson's "Economics" is pretty good. it is old but relatively easy to pick up, and relatively neutral as far as politics goes.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:00
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kalstrams posted:Actually sounds slightly more fun than physics, where you just gather together to earn some grey hair from inability to solve anything. Well in physics there is probably some type of accepted answer there somewhere, economics in comparison is always an ongoing struggle and much of it politicized (I guess you could always certain things like comparative advantage are very different to argue with in a basic sense though). That said, I am not a true economist either, and I see it more as a social science that workers better in context of history.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:29
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Ardennes posted:Well in physics there is probably some type of accepted answer there somewhere, economics in comparison is always an ongoing struggle and much of it politicized (I guess you could always certain things like comparative advantage are very different to argue with in a basic sense though). That said, I am not a true economist either, and I see it more as a social science that workers better in context of history.
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Apr 28, 2015 17:42
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Remember that big Russian military base in Rostov? Yeah well it got blown up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDrAsVTK9Iw
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Apr 28, 2015 18:15
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sparatuvs posted:Remember that big Russian military base in Rostov? Watch Putin start a loving war.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:35
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awesome-express posted:Yeah time to start learning English. Ditch the house, convert everything to USD/GBP/EUR in a foreign bank rent for a bit on the cheap and get the hell out They moved a couple years ago because Moscow is even more of a hole than Kiev, and a lot more expensive to live in. Sell their very highly valued moscow apartment and get a HOUSE. A house! A real house, like in american movies! Then they realized they hate gardening and home upkeep and then there was a nazi-backed coup and all russian speakers will be persecuted, veterans regarded as traitors and nazi's held as heroes! They can't move back to Moscow since their house outside of Kiev is now worthless. Basically they tied all their money up into this new dream retirement house. And yeah, we've told them to start learning english. I think they think we can some how just get them out right now and set them up with a comfortable western life. Other members of the extended family also constantly will ask my wife to help "set them up" or "why haven't you gotten your cousin into Canada yet?". None of them speak english or have any in demand job skills. My wife had a job at the British Council and worked her way up from a test invigilator or organizing cultural and educational events, poo poo that looks really good on a resume, also perfect english fluency. The family just has this idea/expectation that now that my wife is here she can just get them into the country and set them up with jobs and do all the paperwork for them and financially support them for how ever many years it takes them to find work and learn english. We'd like to maybe have kids, maybe even retire one day, but this is all triggering all my wife's eastern european FAMILY FIRST guilt. Man this is more e/n poo poo though.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:39
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sparatuvs posted:Remember that big Russian military base in Rostov? Well, that is one way of getting rid of the evidence.
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Apr 28, 2015 18:55
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Tough poo poo, Baronjutter, but not even E/N material unless you in get in cogs with your wife big time, over that. If they can't be arsed to help themselves, there shouldn't be any reason for them to get help as well.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:00
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Baronjutter posted:They moved a couple years ago because Moscow is even more of a hole than Kiev, and a lot more expensive to live in. Sell their very highly valued moscow apartment and get a HOUSE. A house! A real house, like in american movies! That's rough man. I feel for your wife as well as the people stuck back in Ukraine. I'm guessing they think the system works in Canada like it does back home, which is you grease a few palms and all your applications magically get approved.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:07
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Baronjutter posted:They moved a couple years ago because Moscow is even more of a hole than Kiev, and a lot more expensive to live in. Sell their very highly valued moscow apartment and get a HOUSE. A house! A real house, like in american movies! Yeah, unfortunately, you are right, pretty much every Western country is only going to let them come over if they have a skill set including language skills. Obviously, there are exceptions but that isn't going to generally apply to members of an extended family. Otherwise they can try to work illegally in Poland or other EU states, that is very hard to suggest someone actually do unless their situation is genuinely completely hopeless. Also, yeah the money that the parents invested into the house is probably mostly a loss, but it is very unfair to your wife who can't wave a magic wand to fix everything. For the sake of curiosity, are they Ukrainians that speak Russian or ethnically Russian?
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Apr 28, 2015 19:13
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Now is the time to buy property in Ukraine, especially in Kiev region. Buy low, sell high. Or retire there two decades from now, when the economy is stable and the quality of life has improved. Your parents will live like kings if you send them some cash here and there.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:26
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, unfortunately, you are right, pretty much every Western country is only going to let them come over if they have a skill set including language skills. Obviously, there are exceptions but that isn't going to generally apply to members of an extended family. Otherwise they can try to work illegally in Poland or other EU states, that is very hard to suggest someone actually do unless their situation is genuinely completely hopeless. Also, yeah the money that the parents invested into the house is probably mostly a loss, but it is very unfair to your wife who can't wave a magic wand to fix everything. If they have any Polish roots at all, even rather dubious ones, it might be worth it try for Karta Polaka which would allow them to live and work in Poland legally. Despite tsa's little jab about Poland being just as uncivilized as Russia and Ukraine, the 6 Ukrainians I count among my friends are all quite happy here except for having to retake university courses because Ukrainian/Russian degrees aren't accepted here.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:27
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Ardennes posted:Yeah, unfortunately, you are right, pretty much every Western country is only going to let them come over if they have a skill set including language skills. Obviously, there are exceptions but that isn't going to generally apply to members of an extended family. Otherwise they can try to work illegally in Poland or other EU states, that is very hard to suggest someone actually do unless their situation is genuinely completely hopeless. Also, yeah the money that the parents invested into the house is probably mostly a loss, but it is very unfair to your wife who can't wave a magic wand to fix everything. Pretty much totally Russian although the family mostly grew up in Kiev. Old military family so grandpa moved around all over the soviet union and ended up retiring to Kiev after being the highest general of the region and a military diplomat. Grandpa gets 100% of his news from Russian state media which then filters down through the rest of the family, who also mostly just speak russian so only reach/watch/listen to russian media. To them things are bad, it's nazi's, it's russian language becoming illegal, it's veterans being called oppressors and nazi's liberators. The in-laws lived in Moscow for the last decade or so, mostly for my wife's education but also father-in-laws film aspirations (and aspirations that she also get into film). I have no idea what they are thinking now. Kiev isn't a great place to be, but it's better than being penniless in Moscow chasing after a film career. They have a house and car, they have land they can garden, they have a modest income and their extended family is all in Kiev, it's the best place for them to be right now because Canada is not a short term option. If this is something they seriously want to move towards, to retire here in Canada with their daughter, this is something we can plan for, but it's a long term plan involving intense English study and a ton of paperwork and some pride swallowing that maybe you might have to work bagging groceries rather than being a great actor or director. The alternative is just never working and destroying your daughter's chance at children or retirement. Rent and utilities for a lovely 1br apartment would be close to $1000 a month, then add food, transport... it's not like we're rich and have a house with in in-law suite, that would be a different story. We have a small 2br apartment we can barely afford and a retirement/kids education fund. My wife understands this as well but the guilt is killing her. She has to "do something". "I can't just be like a north American and abandon my family out of greed and comfort!". But they haven't even communicated what they want us to do. It's just lots of complaints about how their house was a huge mistake, how they hate Ukraine and want to move, and how my wife has it so good. I'd love to help them, I'm fine sending them money, and I'm fine talking about a long term plan for them to retire here one day (they're only in their early 50's, not helpless seniors) but the guilt and panic needs to stop or my wife's going to lose it. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 19:41
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh0M8gzvzkM Looks like the grad stock pile went up.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:42
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Looks like the Brain Scorcher got turned back on, but this time it's setting the Zone of Exclusion on fire. Forest fire blazes in Chernobyl off-limits zone. This seems pretty coincidental with the Rostov explosion. Who knows what's going on. Didn't Russia announce that it was having military drills? Because Interfax is claiming that the explosion happened during combat training.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:50
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Specifically this: 800 People Evacuated After Artillery Vehicle Explodes in Southern Russia lost fingat posted:Russian artillery vehicle exploded during the course of a military training exercise in the Rostov region, news reports said Tuesday, resulting in the evacuation of 800 people from nearby villages. Either a bunch of the vehciles went up and were loaded with ammo, or the fire spread to an ammo dump, or uh, WOLVERINES!!! or something.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:19
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Neophyte posted:Specifically this: "No soldiers injured"? Sure, Interfax, an artillery battalion gets replaced with a mushroom cloud and you expect me that the only casualty is a guy who lost his pinky.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:22
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I don't know what language that is, but lol That picture is from a cat beauty contest in Bucharest http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/gallery/2015/apr/27/bucharest-international-feline-beauty-competition-in-pictures
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Apr 28, 2015 20:24
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3peat posted:I don't know what language that is, but lol
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Apr 28, 2015 20:36
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Baronjutter posted:The in-laws lived in Moscow for the last decade or so, mostly for my wife's education but also father-in-laws film aspirations (and aspirations that she also get into film). I have no idea what they are thinking now. Kiev isn't a great place to be, but it's better than being penniless in Moscow chasing after a film career. They have a house and car, they have land they can garden, they have a modest income and their extended family is all in Kiev, it's the best place for them to be right now because Canada is not a short term option. If this is something they seriously want to move towards, to retire here in Canada with their daughter, this is something we can plan for, but it's a long term plan involving intense English study and a ton of paperwork and some pride swallowing that maybe you might have to work bagging groceries rather than being a great actor or director. The alternative is just never working and destroying your daughter's chance at children or retirement. Well it is certain Moscow is probably going to be too expensive for them, rent has shot up with the price of everything else. I assume they are on pensions, which are not going to add up to much immediately but Ukraine at least has a cheaper costs. If they get them pensions in Rubles the conversion may help them at the moment (weird to say I know). They obviously can still work, but also it may be a bit much of them to even really get use to living outside the former Soviet Union. Also, to be honest if they moved to Canada, they would probably be pretty unhappy with what the Canadian press is saying, and the difference in political attitudes. They may have to stick it out and it might not be great. Anyway, when is the last time you have gone back? Did you notice any changes? 3peat posted:I don't know what language that is, but lol Maybe they were just trying to be aspirational? I mean it happened once before.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:49
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There wasn't really anything new in the ARD documentary but I thought it was a good summary of the main points we know about MH17. Also it featured a Matrix-style moving shot of Brown Moses surfing.
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Apr 28, 2015 20:57
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Honj Steak posted:There wasn't really anything new in the ARD documentary but I thought it was a good summary of the main points we know about MH17. Also it featured a Matrix-style moving shot of Brown Moses surfing. should have been rhizzone
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Apr 28, 2015 21:06
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Honj Steak posted:There wasn't really anything new in the ARD documentary but I thought it was a good summary of the main points we know about MH17. Also it featured a Matrix-style moving shot of Brown Moses surfing.
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Apr 28, 2015 21:11
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When the Night Wolves rolled through Minsk they were greeted by the Ukrainian flag adorning a tank. quote:Concerned Belarusians deeply perturbed prospect of coming to our country, "Putin bikers" from the infamous Moscow motor club "Night Wolves", they decided to prepare a hot meeting. The venue was chosen for this memorial at the Mound of Glory near Minsk, visiting motorcyclists who planned to visit, transmits radio "Freedom" .  
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Apr 28, 2015 21:29
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Honj Steak posted:There wasn't really anything new in the ARD documentary but I thought it was a good summary of the main points we know about MH17. Also it featured a Matrix-style moving shot of Brown Moses surfing. 
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Apr 28, 2015 21:29
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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dafuq, latest news is that the Azov Batallion crucified and burned a POW alive but when you search for actual evidence all you get is infowars and a "Human Rights Watch" for Ukraine that is clearly not HRW and the site is 100% dedicated to "kievan atrocities". but people are eating it up 
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Apr 28, 2015 21:31
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