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im sorry if any redditors are offended that i think your community is garbage. please forgive me (don't mail pictures of dead cats to my parents)
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Apr 28, 2015 23:43
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Popular Thug Drink posted:im sorry if any redditors are offended that i think your community is garbage. please forgive me (don't mail pictures of dead cats to my parents) http://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/ Better tell those redditors that they're garbage, too.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:45
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Popular Thug Drink posted:im sorry if any redditors are offended that i think your community is garbage. please forgive me (don't mail pictures of dead cats to my parents) At this point I have to convince myself you're a poe. Your inability to actually discuss an issue and just instead ad hominen all over the place is really astounding.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:46
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Wow all those videos and gifs were terrible quality. I'll believe reddit that City Paper messed up and tried to cover it up but I don't know how that leads to them trying to start a race war.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:46
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much like black people, all internet communities are monolithic blocs,
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Apr 28, 2015 23:48
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Please don't fight about Reddit or the ideological purity of your fellow poster. Relax to this tune, rather: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YgZX9Thm0 Also relevant: where are today's NWA? Who sings hard hitting songs about Mike Brown, Officer Slager? Zimmerman? Baltimore PD? Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 23:50
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So here is an honest question. Is there any way these issues could be dealt with that don't involve rioting that would be just as effective or more effective than rioting?
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Apr 28, 2015 23:56
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If anything, rioting has the opposite effect.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:58
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Knifegrab posted:So here is an honest question. Is there any way these issues could be dealt with that don't involve rioting that would be just as effective or more effective than rioting? Voting for someone who would enact change is probably the best way to do it, I think.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:59
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Atrocious Joe posted:I don't know how that leads to them trying to start a race war. Any criticism of a perceived political stance gets espoused and co-opted by the enemies of that political stance. The reactions to the Baltimore riots are an excellent example of this phenomenon -- all the videos and vines and blog posts and such of American blacks criticizing the lootings and arsons are shared among the racists and right-wingers who then go "Look, even they think this is awful and etc!!!" I'm not sure that at this point it's even possible for anyone to be critical in any way of this whole event without having their thoughts and opinions co-opted by the right. Knifegrab posted:So here is an honest question. Is there any way these issues could be dealt with that don't involve rioting that would be just as effective or more effective than rioting? There is but it involves an enormous amount of effort and goodwill from the rest of America that's unlikely to happen in the current climate.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:59
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Knifegrab posted:So here is an honest question. Is there any way these issues could be dealt with that don't involve rioting that would be just as effective or more effective than rioting? Actually making white suburbanites uncomfortable while clutching their pearls might be one of the few ways to affect some change in the US. If cops being dicks leads to this every time, eventually they might wake up.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:00
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pacmania90 posted:Voting for someone who would enact change is probably the best way to do it, I think. Considering how little control people have over who runs for local office, this seems like a shoddy plan.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:01
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pacmania90 posted:Voting for someone who would enact change is probably the best way to do it, I think. As the right will gleefully point out to you, Baltimore is almost entirely represented by Democrats and their mayor, police commissioner, and deputy commissioner are all black. Nearly half of BPD is composed of black officers. Clearly having people in power who are ostensibly sympathetic to their plight hasn't done much good for Baltimore. Voting alone isn't going to solve enough problems, and any changes from it are going to happen too slowly for the people on the streets to be happy about it.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:02
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Vahakyla posted:Actually making white suburbanites uncomfortable while clutching their pearls might be one of the few ways to affect some change in the US. If cops being dicks leads to this every time, eventually they might wake up. It seems more likely that rioting has the opposite effect. It might make individuals in the immediate area feel this but it actually drives most people to create an us vs them mentality and shift support back to the side of the police when rioting happens.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:03
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Knifegrab posted:So here is an honest question. Is there any way these issues could be dealt with that don't involve rioting that would be just as effective or more effective than rioting? This was discussed in the riot planning meeting back in February please check the minutes. 
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Apr 29, 2015 00:04
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Knifegrab posted:It seems more likely that rioting has the opposite effect. It might make individuals in the immediate area feel this but it actually drives most people to create an us vs them mentality and shift support back to the side of the police when rioting happens. Yes because usually the white suburbia is not in an USvTHEM setup?
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Apr 29, 2015 00:04
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Vahakyla posted:Yes because usually the white suburbia is not in an USvTHEM setup? Even though I don't think rioting in Baltimore will do much good, this. White suburbans are and have always been virulently racist, they just need an excuse to express it openly.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:05
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Brannock posted:I'm not sure that at this point it's even possible for anyone to be critical in any way of this whole event without having their thoughts and opinions co-opted by the right. people will focus on what they want to focus on to make themselves feel better, which is why one guy maybe snatching a purse in the middle of a riot related to police brutality becomes a crusade
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Apr 29, 2015 00:10
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Popular Thug Drink posted:people will focus on what they want to focus on to make themselves feel better, which is why one guy maybe snatching a purse in the middle of a riot related to police brutality becomes a crusade MLK would never have supported purse snatching.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:11
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Lotka Volterra posted:Considering how little control people have over who runs for local office, this seems like a shoddy plan. Then run for local office yourself.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:11
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You do understand the obstacles present to a random working poor person running for office, yeah?
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Apr 29, 2015 00:13
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pacmania90 posted:Then run for local office yourself. Don't like the system? Then invest months of your time and thousands of dollars campaigning and fundraising against established, well-connected candidates for the chance of being able to enact some piddling change in your local jursidiction! If you're not willing to put forth the bare minimum of effort, I don't see how you're entitled to any kind of opinion about how things are managed.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:14
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Don't wanna be murdered by cops? Run for Pres. Hth.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:17
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Popular Thug Drink posted:people will focus on what they want to focus on to make themselves feel better, which is why one guy maybe snatching a purse in the middle of a riot related to police brutality becomes a crusade Not quite... there were more than plenty of other pictures and video of rioters committing crimes in Baltimore. This guy got extra attention because people began claiming that he was being stolen from instead of the other way around. Video evidence settled that, along with putting any "maybe" to rest. I don't understand how this response is connected to what you quoted by me, though. I was making a point that, for example, someone going "Hey can we focus on the protests and less on smashing and looting?" (which is something I've read quite a lot over the last few days) is going to get lumped into the same group that's going "Look at those animals smashing and looting!" simply because both of them are "critical" about the actions of the rioters. To use a concrete example, City Paper has been doing very good work covering the Baltimore riots, but the callout of their misrepresentation of Pursegate attracted the right-wing conspiracy idiots and has given them a legitimate grievance about the coverage. Is it better to not call out City Paper to avoid that, or should we stick to principles?
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Apr 29, 2015 00:18
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Vahakyla posted:Don't wanna be murdered by cops? Run for Pres. Hth. This feels like an Obama joke setup. Our whole government is hosed, so voting/running doesn't seem worth it.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:19
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Knifegrab posted:It seems more likely that rioting has the opposite effect. It might make individuals in the immediate area feel this but it actually drives most people to create an us vs them mentality and shift support back to the side of the police when rioting happens. This might feel like common sense but I don't think it's necessarily true. I'd ideally like to see more data on this (if it's possible to get any). In the short term it might be "those thug looters!" but people have a short memory and if all that comes up later is "Unrest in Baltimore? Isn't that where those people rioted after some cops killed a guy?" I feel like this is already a lot of peoples' attitude towards Ferguson.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:20
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Don't like the system? Then invest months of your time and thousands of dollars campaigning and fundraising against established, well-connected candidates for the chance of being able to enact some piddling change in your local jursidiction! If you're not willing to put forth the bare minimum of effort, I don't see how you're entitled to any kind of opinion about how things are managed. So what should we do, instead?
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Apr 29, 2015 00:20
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Brannock posted:To use a concrete example, City Paper has been doing very good work covering the Baltimore riots, but the callout of their misrepresentation of Pursegate attracted the right-wing conspiracy idiots and has given them a legitimate grievance about the coverage. Is it better to not call out City Paper to avoid that, or should we stick to principles? calling out City Paper workers for questionable statements is all well and good, but it has nothing to do with giving ammo to people who are looking for any and everything possible to justify why the protesters are in fact criminals. noting that some individuals in the middle of the chaos made some partially true statements about what they experienced is about as legitimate of a grievance as benghazi - people are going to sieze any scrap of information that supports the worldview they had coming into the thing, which is why focusing on one individual rioter as a token that symbolizes the riots themselves and by extension the protests is just a giant waste of time no matter what side you fall on
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Apr 29, 2015 00:24
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I think the point here is that there's no easy answer. While violence and unrest might seem counterproductive to us, we're talking about a situation where there is no clear solution to the problem for the rioters and protesters.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:26
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pacmania90 posted:So what should we do, instead? agitate, one way or another. i'm lucky that most of my elected representatives up the chain of command make at least tepid statements in opposition to police brutality. really though the best thing you can do is accept that you live in a nation and society where the majority of people confuse riots with protests, a society which is just now coming to terms with and accepting racial integration. you have to accept the fact that most of your fellow citizens are just complete cretins as one of the plain horrible aspects of human existence that nobody can really influence in any meaningful way though in my own time i enjoy making fun of people, that at least is entertaining to at least myself if not others
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Apr 29, 2015 00:28
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really "what can we do about police brutality and people being petulant vengeful shits" is like asking "what can we do to eliminate poverty and misery". you do what you can and try not to go crazy when people continue to say the most horrible things about minorities because they're easily whipped up by what they see on television
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Apr 29, 2015 00:30
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Do a disruption
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Apr 29, 2015 00:34
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I'm really beginning to wonder what D&D would be saying if this debate was taking place during the Civil Rights Movement. Nothing you guys say or do will change a racist's opinion about blacks. You can try appealing to the center and hope there are a few guilt ridden whites there to support you, but it's likely that most white middle class suburban males see white culture and white behavior as a socioeconomic and political norm in this country- especially when it comes to opinion about the police, prisons, or the legal system.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:35
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Brannock posted:I was catching up on posts I hadn't read yet and noticed this exchange from about a dozen pages ago: This is amazing. The original photo and video clearly showed this so it really underscores how people are willing to bend over backwards trying to make excuses for all the looting that's been going on.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:37
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pacmania90 posted:So what should we do, instead? Hmm feeling like there aren't any feasible options to get out of your current situation could really be upsetting on a social level.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:42
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My question is why hasn't he been discussing this issue until know? I am sure he has personal experience with dealing with police. http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/04/28/obama_baltimore_press_conference_president_s_comments_on_police_and_poor.html
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Apr 29, 2015 00:42
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Job Truniht posted:I'm really beginning to wonder what D&D would be saying if this debate was taking place during the Civil Rights Movement. Nothing you guys say or do will change a racist's opinion about blacks. You can try appealing to the center and hope there are a few guilt ridden whites there to support you, but it's likely that most white middle class suburban males see white culture and white behavior as a socioeconomic and political norm in this country- especially when it comes to opinion about the police, prisons, or the legal system. The best part about reading about stuff like this on the internet is the unintentional almost verbatim parroting of white people from 50 years ago.
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Apr 29, 2015 00:43
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Job Truniht posted:I'm really beginning to wonder what D&D would be saying if this debate was taking place during the Civil Rights Movement. Nothing you guys say or do will change a racist's opinion about blacks. You can try appealing to the center and hope there are a few guilt ridden whites there to support you, but it's likely that most white middle class suburban males see white culture and white behavior as a socioeconomic and political norm in this country- especially when it comes to opinion about the police, prisons, or the legal system. Here is the thing that is different now and why protesting is a counterproductive. The government learned to make sure police are not abusive to peaceful protestors. In the 60s we had Bull Connor unleashing dogs,hoses, and clubs on peaceful people galvanizing support for those we saw as facing injustice. Today the police hang back and protesters are "given room". So the public doesn't see peaceful protesters getting abused. They instead see the rioters whom the protesters unintentionally bring out abusing the community working to galvanize people in the other direction. JFK said "The Civil Rights movement should thank God for Bull Connor. He's helped it as much as Abraham Lincoln."
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Apr 29, 2015 00:47
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Lowtechs posted:My question is why hasn't he been discussing this issue until know? I am sure he has personal experience with dealing with police. you may have just started paying attention now, but obama's been talking about this for a while http://www.salon.com/2011/05/30/justice_department_civil_rights_police/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPoszz2H9UE boner confessor fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 00:47
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Foma posted:Here is the thing that is different now and why protesting is a counterproductive. The government learned to make sure police are not abusive to peaceful protestors. In the 60s we had Bull Connor unleashing dogs,hoses, and clubs on peaceful people galvanizing support for those we saw as facing injustice. Today the police hang back and protesters are "given room". So the public doesn't see peaceful protesters getting abused. They instead see the rioters whom the protesters unintentionally bring out abusing the community working to galvanize people in the other direction. yeah now peaceful protesters are just completely ignored in both media and national policy edit: also youre completely ignoring peaceful protesters as recent as last year being physically injured by police
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