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Rent-A-Cop posted:What you're assuming is "Western European states not including Italy plus Canada and Australia" because "developed nations" covers a few places you can still be executed for sorcery. Not as corrupt in the sense of bribery or extortion, perhaps. It seems like for some reason U.S. police departments come down on cops who commit money-related crimes a lot more readily than they do on cops who commit physical abuses on civilians. Maybe because when a cop secretly personally enriches himself he's sort of crossing the department as well, either in stealing from it or in cutting everyone else out of the take.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:18
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Kurt_Cobain posted:Eidt ^ Fine, did I ever say otherwise? Clearly the police have failed that community when people have to police themselves and beg kids all day monday not do it People aren't even bothering to debate in good faith so why even bother. Like the mother Jones article is obviously poo poo but since it agrees with their pre conceived ideas their brains just shut down.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:20
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Cichlid the Loach posted:Not as corrupt in the sense of bribery or extortion, perhaps. It seems like for some reason U.S. police departments come down on cops who commit money-related crimes a lot more readily than they do on cops who commit physical abuses on civilians. Maybe because when a cop secretly personally enriches himself he's sort of crossing the department as well, either in stealing from it or in cutting everyone else out of the take.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:22
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tsa posted:People aren't even bothering to debate in good faith so why even bother. Like the mother Jones article is obviously poo poo but since it agrees with their pre conceived ideas their brains just shut down. You realize once you go to this step in your process, it signals defeat? Proper edit: Nowhere has anybody tried to just outright shut down arguments with regard to criminality committed by rioters in this thread. ThugDrink was probated. At this point the anger arises from the perception that an investigation into what happened, is not occurring. But BPD can't be that stupid, I'm sure they are investigating it. They simply refuse to indicate that it is occurring, because there is a disconnect between what the city government feels is worth mentioning to its citizens and what citizens on the streets and at home feel they should be told. Nonsense fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 20:23
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I find that its amazing that people in general are so super focused on the riots that they forgot the cause of a lot of these riots is a man ending up dead with nobody providing any answers and the city asking for peace after it loving killed a man for simply running from the police.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:25
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tsa posted:People aren't even bothering to debate in good faith so why even bother. Like the mother Jones article is obviously poo poo but since it agrees with their pre conceived ideas their brains just shut down. I believe you're referring to me? And my original post: hobotrashcanfires posted:
Do please show me what in that article is poo poo, where I'm not bothering to debate in good faith, or what pre-conceived ideas are shutting my brain down. Really. I mean it. More than happy for you to demonstrate any of those things, and I'll be the first to admit any mistake I've made. e: Or any subsequent posts. I'm curious about the genesis of that riot. Please show me where any ideas or questions I've asked, and especially any of the details in the article that are bullshit. It's not like I wrote it. hobotrashcanfires fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 20:28
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The real racists are the loving sjw scum that insisted black people stop being considered property, thus ensuring crimes against them would never be met with authentic outrage by the white observers who referee activists movements
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Apr 29, 2015 20:29
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blackguy32 posted:I find that its amazing that people in general are so super focused on the riots that they forgot the cause of a lot of these riots is a man ending up dead with nobody providing any answers and the city asking for peace after it loving killed a man for simply running from the police. Amazing yes, surprising no. If you're OK with a black man dying because he didn't have a clean record this is easy to get past though.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:30
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blackguy32 posted:I find that its amazing that people in general are so super focused on the riots that they forgot the cause of a lot of these riots is a man ending up dead with nobody providing any answers and the city asking for peace after it loving killed a man for simply running from the police. Riot chat is easier "since it agrees with their pre conceived ideas their brains just shut down" Hmm, where have I heard that before.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:36
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Nonsense posted:You realize once you go to this step in your process, it signals defeat? What? You realize BPD will be releasing some kind of report on Friday right? It is not timely nor will it be complete but the rusted gears of Baltimore are moving. Edit oh yea sorry cops suck!
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Apr 29, 2015 20:41
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Kurt_Cobain posted:What? You realize BPD will be releasing some kind of report on Friday right? It is not timely nor will it be complete but the rusted gears of Baltimore are moving. The ones who murdered Gray probably do Kurt.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:42
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Kurt_Cobain posted:What? You realize BPD will be releasing some kind of report on Friday right? It is not timely nor will it be complete but the rusted gears of Baltimore are moving. Well I for one think they should be congratulated releasing a report.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:42
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This doesn't get said enough in D&D threads, but I wanted to thank most of you here for changing my thinking on the cause of riots, and what exactly can be inferred from them. I hadn't even considered the Boston Tea Party as a riot before, and hadn't really pieced together that riots are just a symptom of larger issues that plague communities, and not only people looking to get free stuff, or anarchists looking to cause trouble. Not everyone reading and responding to these threads are trolls, some actually come to D&D because you all can articulate points better than the vast majority of the internet. That said, I wish there would be less ad hominem attacks on each other. Why can't you all realize you are part of an elite community of people who can afford to pay  for an internet forum. Seriously, there has to be some better outlet for your anger than calling each other racists, cop sympathizers, leftists, riot lovers or whatever. If you would just appeal to the mods for help, I'm sure they would be benevolent and work with this community to remove those who are causing trouble. Don't you all realize your back and forth quips make the Debate and Discussion sub-forum look like a bunch of children?
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Apr 29, 2015 20:46
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Solvency posted:This doesn't get said enough in D&D threads, but I wanted to thank most of you here for changing my thinking on the cause of riots, and what exactly can be inferred from them. I hadn't even considered the Boston Tea Party as a riot before, and hadn't really pieced together that riots are just a symptom of larger issues that plague communities, and not only people looking to get free stuff, or anarchists looking to cause trouble. I currently feel the status-quo with regard to punishing posters is fine, differing perception can be called out on its own, without somebody needing to lose access to the whole place. but yes, I am guilty of what you state here as well, so gently caress me too (jokingly). Nonsense fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 20:47
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Solvency posted:That said, I wish there would be less ad hominem attacks on each other. Why can't you all realize you are part of an elite community of people who can afford to pay 
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Apr 29, 2015 20:49
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Kurt_Cobain posted:What? You realize BPD will be releasing some kind of report on Friday right? It is not timely nor will it be complete but the rusted gears of Baltimore are moving. The question to ask now is why has it taken this long for them to release a report? And were they going to release a report had people not gotten agitated?
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Apr 29, 2015 20:55
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blackguy32 posted:The question to ask now is why has it taken this long for them to release a report? And were they going to release a report had people not gotten agitated?
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Apr 29, 2015 20:59
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http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/29/baltimore-justice-system-protests-curfew?CMP=share_btn_fbquote:Baltimore’s under-fire criminal justice system risked antagonising its already seething local community on Wednesday by suspending legal procedures and imposing bail bonds of up to half a million dollars on the city’s most impoverished residents.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:00
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Well, it seems like a good time to re-post this then: https://www.crowdrise.com/legalbailsupportforbaltimore/fundraiser/tremurphyquote:The people of Baltimore are protesting the epidemic of police violence in their community. One small way we can support the communities and families of Baltimore is to assert the right of every individual to legal representation. Every American has the right to due process and fair trial, but this has not been the case in Baltimore for too many, for too long. Please donate to this fund to ensure that every person arrested during this crisis, regardless of charges, has access to proper legal representation. They only have $50k so far, seems like a good thing to support in light of what Zeitgueist just posted though.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:07
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blackguy32 posted:I find that its amazing that people in general are so super focused on the riots that they forgot the cause of a lot of these riots is a man ending up dead with nobody providing any answers and the city asking for peace after it loving killed a man for simply running from the police. Yes, it was definitely just this one guy dying and not the fact that the jump out boys and beat cops in Baltimore have been kicking the poo poo out of citizens for 15 years. Freddie Grey is just the name people can rally around, every black person arrested in Baltimore has a story about being assaulted by cops.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:30
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:Yes, it was definitely just this one guy dying and not the fact that the jump out boys and beat cops in Baltimore have been kicking the poo poo out of citizens for 15 years. Freddie Grey is just the name people can rally around, every black person arrested in Baltimore has a story about being assaulted by cops. According to friends-of-friends on my Facebook feed, they deserve it. Literally anything that a cop does to you is righteous and deserved for whatever crimes you've inevitably committed. What can we do when The Peopletm democratically decide that yes the residents of Baltimore have been abused by police, but they have it coming for being thugs? You can't "raise awareness", because everyone is already aware of how they're treated and everyone else is cool with it. You can't nonpeacefully demonstrate, because that will only cement people's prejudices of the oppressed.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:40
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Solvency posted:That said, I wish there would be less ad hominem attacks on each other. Why can't you all realize you are part of an elite community of people who can afford to pay While I'm guilty of this I'm not going to apologize for it. I have zero problems with someone who wants to actually discuss something even if I disagree with them but look at just this thread since the poo poo his the fan in Baltimore. Over and over and over there is 5-6 pages of talking about the riots, the reasons why its way more complex like you said and in jumps rear end in a top hat #327 with nothing but worthless "LOL defending riots  " one line posts. Even the people who try and engage them seriously get the same empty replies. If someone isn't at all serious or willing to have an actual back and forth then gently caress em.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:42
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TwoQuestions posted:According to friends-of-friends on my Facebook feed, they deserve it. Literally anything that a cop does to you is righteous and deserved for whatever crimes you've inevitably committed. Yeah, the "don't want to get killed by the cops? don't get arrested!" is bullshit when you think that in Baltimore, just standing around is pretty much illegal outside of a few select places. Not like "walking while black", it's actually illegal. Backtalking or mouthing off to the cops gets you a rough ride, too, when they leave you unbuckled in the back of a party van. That's likely what happened to Gray as well since it is common enough that everyone and their mother that's been around the BPD knows they pull poo poo like that. quote:What can we do when The Peopletm democratically decide that yes the residents of Baltimore have been abused by police, but they have it coming for being thugs? You can't "raise awareness", because everyone is already aware of how they're treated and everyone else is cool with it. You can't nonpeacefully demonstrate, because that will only cement people's prejudices of the oppressed. You can, but it's going to take what they're planning today with massive disruptions to traffic. The city doesn't give much of a drat about the 2 block area that was the site of the rioting, they care about the Inner Harbor and Camden. Getting people together to disrupt those areas peacefully (national media has been loving vultures) you can get something done. Burning down parts of western Baltimore which were burnt down 50 years ago isn't going to do anything, no matter how hard the accelerationist fanfic pushes it. Those areas are loving blighted and have been blighted no matter how much rioting goes on. Until the city lets up on the war on drugs, institutionalized assholedom at the BPD academy and assholes like Martin "I oversaw the arrests of 1 in 6 Baltimore citizens!" O'Malley with their dumb police policies nothing is going to change. The city is 400k+ strong black folk and won't get dictated by the actions of a few thousand looters and rioters...hopefully, at least. Today should be a good day today with the protests that are organized.
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Apr 29, 2015 21:54
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Rhesus Pieces posted:If you have a mass of people angry enough to deindividualize and start breaking poo poo, a line of shield-bearing cops can be less of a deterrent and more of a green light and starting line. Doesn't this line of thought remove agency from the protesters and/or paint them in a bad "they can't help themselves" light? "You can't blame those dudes for what they did to the police. Look at what they were wearing! Asking for it... "
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Apr 29, 2015 21:59
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:You can, but it's going to take what they're planning today with massive disruptions to traffic. The city doesn't give much of a drat about the 2 block area that was the site of the rioting, they care about the Inner Harbor and Camden. Getting people together to disrupt those areas peacefully (national media has been loving vultures) you can get something done. Burning down parts of western Baltimore which were burnt down 50 years ago isn't going to do anything, no matter how hard the accelerationist fanfic pushes it. Those areas are loving blighted and have been blighted no matter how much rioting goes on. Until the city lets up on the war on drugs, institutionalized assholedom at the BPD academy and assholes like Martin "I oversaw the arrests of 1 in 6 Baltimore citizens!" O'Malley with their dumb police policies nothing is going to change. The city is 400k+ strong black folk and won't get dictated by the actions of a few thousand looters and rioters...hopefully, at least. Today should be a good day today with the protests that are organized. How is disrupting that traffic going to endear otherwise uninvolved people to their plight? I fear all anything will do is justify more violent oppression.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:00
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Baltimore is having its cops work 15 hour shifts days on end and not feeding them during this will end well
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Apr 29, 2015 22:00
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Baltimore is having its cops work 15 hour shifts days on end and not feeding them during this will end well Also shorting them on overtime.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:03
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quote:Additionally, the Baltimore City Police Department received the following memo from the office of the mayor, alerting officers that under the state of emergency, payroll for Baltimore City police officers would remain at the same rate as normal. Makes sense, wouldn't want to create a perverse incentive for them to kill more people so they can collect overtime.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:03
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Baltimore is having its cops work 15 hour shifts days on end and not feeding them during this will end well Holy loving poo poo do they want a Tiananmen Square incident to happen?
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Apr 29, 2015 22:05
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I have the opinion that nobody is evil here. Yes the rioters are idiots, somewhat sociopath, but the average person is like that. What is obvious is that the USA police force is a problem, they are incompetent, with the wrong training and armed. I am too lazy to find the photos of the last 5 or 6 guys they killed this year, recorded in video so we can't not sell a fun version. So the cops are too sociopath and stupid, like the average person. I don't condone rioting, but the USA citizens like their country and their culture, maybe they have to accept the bad with the good and rioting is part of the bad.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:05
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Baltimore is having its cops work 15 hour shifts days on end and not feeding them during this will end well Well, maybe Baltimore is just trying to get its cops to experience what its everyday citizens experience in the few everyday jobs available to them. It's an empathy program!
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Apr 29, 2015 22:08
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TwoQuestions posted:Holy loving poo poo do they want a Tiananmen Square incident to happen? This would be excellent for the movement. In terms of political damage, the real danger is the police deciding to gently caress off and let rioters torch the city.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:10
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TwoQuestions posted:According to friends-of-friends on my Facebook feed, they deserve it. Literally anything that a cop does to you is righteous and deserved for whatever crimes you've inevitably committed. That's because they literally cannot fathom the idea of cops wasting their time harassing someone for no reason. Their only experiences with police have been a handful of brief, curt interactions over minor traffic infractions that they know were fully deserved, therefore the rest of the known universe operates the exact same way.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:10
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:Until the city lets up on the war on drugs, institutionalized assholedom at the BPD academy and assholes like Martin "I oversaw the arrests of 1 in 6 Baltimore citizens!" O'Malley with their dumb police policies nothing is going to change. The city is 400k+ strong black folk and won't get dictated by the actions of a few thousand looters and rioters...hopefully, at least. Today should be a good day today with the protests that are organized. And today that fucker is out there smiling and helping clean up like this mess isn't fundamentally related to the lovely policing tactics he loves so much, and people describe this guy as a "progressive."
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Apr 29, 2015 22:13
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:Baltimore is having its cops work 15 hour shifts days on end and not feeding them during this will end well 
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Apr 29, 2015 22:18
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national guard
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Apr 29, 2015 22:18
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hobbesmaster posted:Also shorting them on overtime. In previous city emergencies, police received double time for hours over 40 in a week. The city in this case is citing a different authority for requiring the police presence, and thus are only going to be paying them time and a half for hours over 40. Poor police 
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Apr 29, 2015 22:18
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:national guard Hard to tell these days.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:20
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https://twitter.com/deray/status/593515767276023808 Video of a rough arrest from last night in Baltimore. The cop's knee is on the guy's back, and he's claiming to have trouble breathing. The people filming are making their presence abundantly clear and are politely asking the cops to let up and let the guy breathe. The cops absolutely don't give a gently caress that they're being filmed. Once you hear the cuffs snap shut the cop kneeling on him gets up and kicks the restrained man in the back almost as a gently caress-you to the prisoner and the people witnessing it.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:21
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Has there been any trouble with the National Guard presence? I remember that in Ferguson they were far more professional and less threatening than the police, partially because they were mostly restricted to defending a handful of important government and police areas far from the protests.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:24
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