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Evil Agita posted:Any decent mods come out to make this like... a full game? There's several on the Steam store. I'd recommend starting with Crusader Kings II and then picking up Sunset Invasions if the base game tickles your fancy.
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Apr 28, 2015 06:19
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Larry Parrish posted:CK2 used to be good but the current team is determined to ruin it. I didn't know I was determined to ruin it?
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Apr 28, 2015 07:49
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Groogy posted:I didn't know I was determined to ruin it? Just rename it medieval tumble simulator.
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Apr 28, 2015 07:57
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Demiurge4 posted:Just rename it medieval tumble simulator. Ah I see, we haven't had enough Tumble-related features/mechanics/events lately in comparison to the first years of development. I'll make sure to get on fixing that. Edit: I just got an idea, how does Quick-time Tumble mechanic sound? You know like in God of War? That surely should also make us appeal to console kiddies as well right? Groogy fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 08:01
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Jazerus posted:edit: also the peak of CK2 was the patch immediately pre-Old Gods, with CK2+ This is 100% correct, luckily EU4 is so good that I don't need to play CK2 any more! I mean TOG is good and fun in and of itself but it was the first in a series of moves taking the game away from its focus on the Crusades and I feel like it is worse as a whole for it, though I suppose it does give more variety to the game in some ways. Also CK2+ was the balls.
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Apr 28, 2015 08:02
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I still miss CK2+'s crusade mechanic (for giving the titles to random sons so it doesn't just add to France or Germany's blob). I'd pay for a DLC that added something similar (too much chaff in the mod itself for me to go back to it)
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Apr 28, 2015 09:08
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CK2 is better than it's ever been you nerds. I legitimately can't think of a time when PDS has iterated on a game and the game has turned out worse than before. There's always more, and it's always better.
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Apr 28, 2015 09:14
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The worst part about HoI4 is the lack of steam preorder option - for the mods.
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Apr 28, 2015 09:56
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Drone posted:CK2 is better than it's ever been you nerds. Nah, there's a point where games broaden their focus and that hurts them. The EU3 1399 start is an analogue here, but it obviously didn't shift focus as much as Old Gods, Rajas of India, and Charlemagne did. It's almost like 1066 has been forgotten; I haven't played in a while, but when I did play I don't remember any time when the HRE wasn't an unstoppable blob whose favourite time is eating chunks off France (which can almost never muster up an adequate defence). And someone else already mentioned decadence shifting from time bomb to unimportance and back. CK2 has plenty things in need of improvement without adding support for another two bookmarks and another subcontinent. Tahirovic posted:The worst part about HoI4 is the lack of steam preorder option - for the mods. You can't even cancel the pre-order like this. 
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Apr 28, 2015 10:06
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Tahirovic posted:The worst part about HoI4 is the lack of steam preorder option - for the mods. Actually Steam went back and have decided not to sell mods anymore  I kinda wish Paradox would price their various cosmetic DLC lower. I bought all of the CK2 ones on the Christmas sale because they were down to what I could justify and it really does add a lot of personality so I feel it was worthwhile. But the EU4 ones are almost €100 just for the cosmetics, that's insane. I would feel a lot more comfortable if they just added a cosmetic DLC pack for a much lower price than the individual ones. Right now the pack is €140 (including the expansions).
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Apr 28, 2015 10:08
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I think I have to agree - CK2 just doesn't feel like it really benefits from having the start date moved back a couple of hundred years at all - especially when you are working with the same tech tree. Old Gods was interesting because it added a cool mechanic with the earlier start, but starting at 1066 felt like just the right game length for you to do whatever you want with a dynasty and then be gently prompted 'ok time to start over' by the time limit coming up.
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Apr 28, 2015 10:11
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So sengoku still sucks and no mods have made it a complete game yet huh?
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Apr 28, 2015 10:30
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Demiurge4 posted:Actually Steam went back and have decided not to sell mods anymore Never buy cosmetic DLCs when there's not a sale, and Paradox games go on sale -all the time-, usually with most DLC also reduced at least 50%, if not 75% during major holiday sales like Christmas or the summer sale.
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Apr 28, 2015 11:29
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Drone posted:Never buy cosmetic DLCs when there's not a sale, and Paradox games go on sale -all the time-, usually with most DLC also reduced at least 50%, if not 75% during major holiday sales like Christmas or the summer sale. Look at this pleb who doesn't even have a pre-order to cancel.
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Apr 28, 2015 11:35
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Drone posted:Never buy cosmetic DLCs when there's not a sale, and Paradox games go on sale -all the time-, usually with most DLC also reduced at least 50%, if not 75% during major holiday sales like Christmas or the summer sale. That's exactly my point. Cosmetic DLC's are way overpriced and only reasonable when on a major sale. The whole starting price point is insane.
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Apr 28, 2015 12:00
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Demiurge4 posted:That's exactly my point. Cosmetic DLC's are way overpriced and only reasonable when on a major sale. The whole starting price point is insane. Pretty sure that's just a financial tactic. High starting price + regular high discounts = "oooh, big discount, cheap, must buy!" reflex. Probably not going to change any time soon.
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Apr 28, 2015 12:02
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YF-23 posted:Nah, there's a point where games broaden their focus and that hurts them. The EU3 1399 start is an analogue here, but it obviously didn't shift focus as much as Old Gods, Rajas of India, and Charlemagne did. It's almost like 1066 has been forgotten; I haven't played in a while, but when I did play I don't remember any time when the HRE wasn't an unstoppable blob whose favourite time is eating chunks off France (which can almost never muster up an adequate defence). And someone else already mentioned decadence shifting from time bomb to unimportance and back. CK2 has plenty things in need of improvement without adding support for another two bookmarks and another subcontinent. They aren't in a very easy spot with regards to player feels though. The same mechanics making it easy for the HRE or whatever large conservative empire at the start of the bookmark to stay together makes it more pleasant for human players to blob. But of any of the Paradox games, CK2 should be the one with over developed internal focus that makes it more likely, but also more fun, to seethe in place than blob.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:53
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I really like the tribal mechanics. If you can get on a roll you can steamroll just about everyone with your huge barbarian horde but actually keeping what you take together is the real challenge. I also like that you can actually choose whether to become a republic or feudal monarchy. Also everyone being feudal was extremely ahistorical. 
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Apr 28, 2015 18:47
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Drone posted:CK2 is better than it's ever been you nerds. Divine Wind made playing in East Asia and especially China a lot worse but the rest of the game was improved.
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Apr 28, 2015 19:02
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FreudianSlippers posted:I really like the tribal mechanics. If you can get on a roll you can steamroll just about everyone with your huge barbarian horde but actually keeping what you take together is the real challenge. I also like that you can actually choose whether to become a republic or feudal monarchy. Has anyone ever just conquered all of Europe as a barbarian horde, only to continually break up it all leaving just warring tribes of primitive barbarians in their wake? It'd be really cool to see the whole face of the continent alter within a short time, and having to pick up the remnants in the passing of the conqueror.
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Apr 28, 2015 23:29
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Quick HOI Question - I've been playing Darkest Hour and HoI3 recently (owned them for ages but never really got into them) one thing I'm wondering about is force limits. In EU4 there's a clearly defined force limit but I'm not seeing one in the HOI games. Is a countries force limit essentially defined by it's ability to use IC to both produce the units and them equip them with supplies? Is there nothing stopping you (other than time and IC) from churning out a million infantry units, except for the fact that your country won't have the manpower or supplies to fill them?
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Apr 29, 2015 02:59
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uPen posted:Divine Wind made playing in East Asia and especially China a lot worse but the rest of the game was improved. Yeah DW legitimately ruined eu3 for me. I don't even remember what specifically at this point I just remember hating it. Something to do with horde mechanics? I don't think it affected much in western Europe but I remember getting frustrated and not bothering with the game again after the changes. Actually now that I think about it it might have been the cascading alliances? I'm pretty sure those were eliminated as a bug in previous patches and then reintroduced in DW? Someone refresh my memory
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Apr 29, 2015 03:00
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Sharzak posted:Yeah DW legitimately ruined eu3 for me. I don't even remember what specifically at this point I just remember hating it. Something to do with horde mechanics? I don't think it affected much in western Europe but I remember getting frustrated and not bothering with the game again after the changes. Cascading alliances, colonizing hordes, hordes are at war with everyone, Ming/Japan ruined.
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Apr 29, 2015 03:20
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unicr0n posted:Quick HOI Question - I've been playing Darkest Hour and HoI3 recently (owned them for ages but never really got into them) one thing I'm wondering about is force limits. In EU4 there's a clearly defined force limit but I'm not seeing one in the HOI games. Is a countries force limit essentially defined by it's ability to use IC to both produce the units and them equip them with supplies? Is there nothing stopping you (other than time and IC) from churning out a million infantry units, except for the fact that your country won't have the manpower or supplies to fill them? There is no limit other than industry and manpower. Have fun!
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Apr 29, 2015 03:27
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unicr0n posted:Quick HOI Question - I've been playing Darkest Hour and HoI3 recently (owned them for ages but never really got into them) one thing I'm wondering about is force limits. In EU4 there's a clearly defined force limit but I'm not seeing one in the HOI games. Is a countries force limit essentially defined by it's ability to use IC to both produce the units and them equip them with supplies? Is there nothing stopping you (other than time and IC) from churning out a million infantry units, except for the fact that your country won't have the manpower or supplies to fill them? Manpower, supplies and IC are the only things between you and flooding the world with troops. Also the command limit, but that's more of a soft-cap where you can't have more than x soldiers involved in a single battle before they start taking combat penalties that eventually outweigh the benefits of having more troops if you cram too many units into the same battle.
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Apr 29, 2015 03:34
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uPen posted:Cascading alliances, colonizing hordes, hordes are at war with everyone, Ming/Japan ruined. Oh right, the constant war thing. So yeah as Muscovy in the earlier start (one thing I miss) you'd always be at war with the Golden Horde and all of their friends and God loving help you if you declared on anybody allied to anyone else who was allied to the Ottomans. After the expansion declaring war on Zaporozhie who was allied to Ukraine who was allied to Crimea who was allied to the Ottomans meant you were getting steamrolled by the entire world before long. It was frustrating feeling like I paid ten bucks or whatever to essentially irrevocably ruin my game.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:05
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Each point of IC converts to a certain equivalent amount of Transport Capacity. Each division consumes a portion of Transport Capacity, with mobile units consuming more. Dissent and partisans in non-core provinces will also consume TC. TC acts as the main upper limit on the number of units you can field because unless you're playing with Full IC Takeover, you're likely consuming more TC than you're conquering. You can release conquered nations as puppets so you don't have to shoulder their territory's demands on your TC, but then that still means you're only playing with as much TC as your core IC will let you.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:09
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Evil Agita posted:So sengoku still sucks and no mods have made it a complete game yet huh? There is one decent mod for Sengoku; it's called Monumenta Historia Japonicae or something like that. Unfortunately, you can't access it right now because the Sengoku modding subforum over at Paradoxplaza hasn't been fixed yet.
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Apr 29, 2015 07:44
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e: whatever
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Apr 29, 2015 12:02
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DW and the horde mechanics was also the cause of the famous AI "Bohemia Snake" wasn't it?
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Apr 29, 2015 16:40
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It was.
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Apr 29, 2015 17:20
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uPen posted:Cascading alliances, colonizing hordes, hordes are at war with everyone, Ming/Japan ruined. Hordes were awesome, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with them being able to colonize. I was sad when that forever war mechanic was removed from EU4. Hell, I even had them modded to be a poo poo ton stronger, because I didn't think they were nasty enough. Ming/Japan weren't ruined, just made a lot more difficult. Japan is basically the same as it is now, and I don't really see many people bitching about how Japan is still broken. Ming was definitely hit hard with the nerf bat, but later patches made it a lot easier to manage factions. And it wasn't that difficult to get out of Celestial Empire/Confucianism. Cascading Alliances were definitely a problem, although they also tweaked them eventually so the war leader could only transfer once.
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Apr 29, 2015 18:19
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:DW and the horde mechanics was also the cause of the famous AI "Bohemia Snake" wasn't it? How exactly did it cause that?
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Apr 29, 2015 20:32
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Phlegmish posted:How exactly did it cause that? You would "colonize" a horde nation's provinces instead of conquering them and hammering out a conquest via diplomacy screen. The AI ended up colonizing a line of provinces from Austria all the way to Korea because everything between Poland and Japan was a colonizable horde nation.
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Apr 29, 2015 20:41
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The Golden Horde extending as far west as it did in 1399 and being always at war with its neighbours for being a horde is basically a golden opportunity for Phase 2 of Ostsiedlung, and Bohemia and Austria were all too willing to take advantage of it.
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Apr 29, 2015 23:40
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And the state of constant war made the Hordes insanely feeble. Once they were beaten in battle once, everyone would pounce on them, and they'd never recover.
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Apr 29, 2015 23:45
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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There was also the problem that the AI's weird priorities for which province to colonize led to them making really long one province wide snakes stretching all the way to the Pacific instead of one blob that stayed in one place. Basically, if you started in 1399, whichever of Bohemia or Austria managed to cut off the other one's eastern border first would end up with a long snakey string of provinces all the way across Asia, because in 1399 Muscovy controlled by the AI wasn't powerful enough to stop them before they cut off Muscovy's route to reach the horde, and then they would just keep colonizing through the hordes until the end of the game.
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Apr 30, 2015 00:26
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I guess I understand the idea behind colonizing horde provinces, since it's all basically undeveloped land in the time period anyway outside of the occasional city or fort, but with new autonomy there's no point since there's no effective difference between, say, Genoa's Crimean provinces and Portugal's African land. Except for Trade Companies I guess.
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Apr 30, 2015 00:49
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Are they totally the same mechanic as colonisation? I'd guess having them spawn occasional rebels to wreck your progress would be a way to limit the expansion into horde territory.
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Apr 30, 2015 00:56
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Enjoy posted:Are they totally the same mechanic as colonisation? I'd guess having them spawn occasional rebels to wreck your progress would be a way to limit the expansion into horde territory. Not totally the same, but the provinces are usually insanely cheap to core since they are distant overseas and they have a minimum autonomy of 75%.
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Apr 30, 2015 00:57
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