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Moey posted:Ban all unions then. Call it a day. A libertard solution for every problem!
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Apr 30, 2015 08:16
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Moey posted:Law enforcement isn't paid great. This keeps being posted, but it really isn't all the true. The best paid city employee is apparently a Baltimore city police detective who made $170k in 2013. Admittedly, most aren't making that much, but they're hardly underpaid.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:16
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Nonsense posted:The fog is lifted. All the responses to this just remind me of the posts after the Mike Brown and Zimmerman incidents became a little clearer. Baseless allegations of wide-ranging conspiracy, references to completely unrelated incidents, and of course "it doesn't matter anyway". I'd think that you guys would learn after embarrassing yourselves twice before but I guess not. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Apr 30, 2015 08:27
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nm posted:This keeps being posted, but it really isn't all the true. The best paid city employee is apparently a Baltimore city police detective who made $170k in 2013. Starting salary of a BPD Officer is $43K. That is one detective, out of 3100 sworn officers. That detective pretty much worked 6+ days a week and a lot of OT. It's not a good bellwether of the entire department. The pay is why BPD routinely looses their officers to other area departments on a pretty consistent basis.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:31
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What part of the conspiracy that cops are racist towards blacks is untrue?
Job Truniht fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 08:31
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semper wifi posted:All the responses to this just remind me of the posts after the Mike Brown and Zimmerman incidents became a little clearer. Baseless allegations of wide-ranging conspiracy, references to completely unrelated incidents, and of course "it doesn't matter anyway". I'd think that you guys would learn after embarrassing yourselves twice before but I guess not. You're making the same mistake as shrike, you're going too heavy on the trolling and it gets obvious.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:43
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semper wifi posted:All the responses to this just remind me of the posts after the Mike Brown and Zimmerman incidents became a little clearer. Baseless allegations of wide-ranging conspiracy, references to completely unrelated incidents, and of course "it doesn't matter anyway". I'd think that you guys would learn after embarrassing yourselves twice before but I guess not. ...but enough about how racists were falling all over themselves to find any way to justify dead kids.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:45
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Morroque posted:In some ways I know that as far as municipalities go, but I'm wondering -- in the circumstance where the Baltimore PD gets most of its funding from taxation upon the very same Baltimore residents who currently do not trust them -- if the PD department may learn some lesson not to bite the hand that feeds them. That is, however, only in the case where direct taxation is involved. In Ferguson, the police budget was gained through other, more nefarious means through perverse incentives regarding debtor's prisons; which allowed them to treat their civilian population with less and less respect. I'm wondering which one of the two is the case.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:56
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Moey posted:I'll take a stab that the urban neighborhoods are riddled with crime that they dont bother reporting. A rousing endorsement of the competence of the police force that puts their actions beyond reproach. Its simply absurd to be demanding any semblance of transparency or oversight. quote:
I too am terrified of drunk unarmed college girls surrounded by half a dozen other police officers and act extremely aggressively towards them, causing their injury.
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Apr 30, 2015 08:58
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Lemming posted:You're making the same mistake as shrike, you're going too heavy on the trolling and it gets obvious. "anyone who disagrees with me is trolling" Kugyou no Tenshi posted:...but enough about how racists were falling all over themselves to find any way to justify dead kids. Lil Freddie, poor baby was only 25. Just a little kid, just making those little kiddie mistakes like carrying a switchblade around and selling drugs. He could've been an astronaut or a secret agent when he grew up! And big Mike, little guy was just learning to commit strong arm robberies and assault 5 foot nothing convenience store clerks when those mean ol police cut him down for no reason. Hands up!
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Apr 30, 2015 09:38
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Lol "carrying a knife around". Guess the 2nd amendment doesn't apply if you're black!
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Apr 30, 2015 09:44
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While I think knife restrictions are all stupid and a waste of time, it's illegal to carry a switchblade almost everywhere e: maybe not "almost everywhere" but more often than not. it's illegal in maryland. semper wifi fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 09:50
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semper wifi posted:While I think knife restrictions are all stupid and a waste of time, it's illegal to carry a switchblade almost everywhere I don't think they even had probable cause to search him. As far as I know, running is not probable cause.
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Apr 30, 2015 09:59
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I don't know man, I would be pretty leery at using "was carrying a weapon the government didn't want him to have" as justification for government agents killing someone, sounds like a Big Government infringement on our rights to me.
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Apr 30, 2015 09:59
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blackguy32 posted:I don't think they even had probable cause to search him. As far as I know, running is not probable cause. What about obviously fleeing from the police, though? VitalSigns posted:I don't know man, I would be pretty leery at using "was carrying a weapon the government didn't want him to have" as justification for government agents killing someone, sounds like a Big Government infringement on our rights to me. Curious argument from a guy I seem to recall advocating for criminalizing saying "homosexuality is a sin"
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Apr 30, 2015 10:08
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Well when I post "yeah the cops killed that guy but he was anti-gay, sooooooooo" then these things will be identical and you won't have to confront your own double standard re: justifying breaking someone's spine who had carried an illegal knife earlier.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:17
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semper wifi posted:What about obviously fleeing from the police, though? gently caress Terry Stops, gently caress broken-windows policing, gently caress the idea that not wanting a cop in your face today means that you need the pavement in your face and a cop on your back. Justification after the fact is how we go back to general warrants. I've been harassed by cops before (no criminal record, shove that in your Just World pipe and smoke it), and I'm certain that in at least two of those cases the only reason I didn't wind up on my face when I called the cop on his poo poo it was because I look white or it wasn't a "high-crime" (read: dirty poor) area. In both of those cases I literally saw cops decide that someone else who said and did the exact same thing as I did needed threats of arrest right loving now, and wouldn't you know both of those people had a certain darker shade to their skin. Nothing like watching a university cop threaten to arrest a friend of mine for refusing to prove that an illegally-parked car wasn't his to brighten my loving day, or watching them harass a cop from another city and threaten her with "how bad it would look if [she] got arrested on Christmas Eve" over a parking issue their own dispatch claimed before and after that they didn't have the right to enforce.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:28
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Foma posted:It looks like a major part of the fix is to ban public sector unions. No.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:29
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VitalSigns posted:Well when I post "yeah the cops killed that guy but he was anti-gay, sooooooooo" then these things will be identical and you won't have to confront your own double standard re: justifying breaking someone's spine who had carried an illegal knife earlier. I'm not justifying what the cops did, I'm criticizing the tendency for people in this thread to let high-profile victims of police violence completely off the hook, to the point of pretending that a 25 year old man qualifies as a "kid". The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. e: and yeah, that sounds harsh I know, but this is looking like the third time now this big blowup has been over what turns out to be some dumbass basically getting into it with someone and losing. And every time it happens the casual observer just shrugs their shoulders and goes away thinking the cops aren't that bad after all. semper wifi fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 10:31
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semper wifi posted:I'm not justifying what the cops did, I'm criticizing the tendency for people in this thread to let high-profile victims of police violence completely off the hook, to the point of pretending that a 25 year old man qualifies as a "kid". The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. They were supposed to arrest (or possibly let free, if their concerns were unfounded), not murder him, then. In other countries the policemen are usually able to do this. Maybe American ones are especially inept?
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Apr 30, 2015 10:35
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semper wifi posted:While I think knife restrictions are all stupid and a waste of time, it's illegal to carry a switchblade almost everywhere It's a shame he didn't have a perfectly legal handgun instead and he hadn't managed to use it. The end result would be the same, but at least he would have taken at least one of his murderers with him.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:42
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semper wifi posted:I'm not justifying what the cops did, I'm criticizing the tendency for people in this thread to let high-profile victims of police violence completely off the hook, to the point of pretending that a 25 year old man qualifies as a "kid". The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. It's not harsh, it's just very, very stupid. Freddie could have been Pol Pot for all I care, the police is still on the hook for, at least, manslaughter.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:42
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Six days ago a reporter tweeted that the police reported Gray was quiet in the back of the van, neglect to mention him violently throwing himself against the walls hard enough to break his spine and kill himself I'm sure that anonymous prisoner knows more than the police operating the van though, because common criminals picked up off the street are much more observant than trained police officers.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:45
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semper wifi posted:The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. Police unconstitutionally intruding into law abiding black people's lives because of systemic racism is actually a point of contention.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:47
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Stereotype posted:Six days ago a reporter tweeted that the police reported Gray was quiet in the back of the van, neglect to mention him violently throwing himself against the walls hard enough to break his spine and kill himself I don't have issue with his observation levels. But crims trying to curry favour with the people who have them in custody have been known to make poo poo up, especially in high-profile cases.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:50
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mastervj posted:It's not harsh, it's just very, very stupid. Doubtful, considering everything happened during the course of a lawful arrest, and yeah of course the police should have done better. Stereotype posted:Six days ago a reporter tweeted that the police reported Gray was quiet in the back of the van, neglect to mention him violently throwing himself against the walls hard enough to break his spine and kill himself Most likely scenario to me, considering the video, is that he was just limp back there bumping around after getting hurt in the arrest, and the cops who put him in assumed he was just being a dick. Would explain both the "mostly quiet" and the slamming around.
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Apr 30, 2015 10:52
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semper wifi posted:Most likely scenario to me, considering the video, is that he was just limp back there bumping around after getting hurt in the arrest, and the cops who put him in assumed he was just being a dick. Would explain both the "mostly quiet" and the slamming around. In which case the officers would be guilty of reckless homicide. If they were so bad at their job that they were unaware that injury or death was a possibility of sliding around unconsciously while shackled in a metal box, then they would only be guilty of negligent homicide. Stereotype fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 11:00
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semper wifi posted:Doubtful, considering everything happened during the course of a lawful arrest, and yeah of course the police should have done better. Just a reminder, the BPD have still not settled on an official story of what happened, and if they try to come out and say "Well we didn't seatbelt him in because he was fighting us and so he threw herself around in the van until his spine severed and rendered him immobile" then the riots are going to be way worse. Almost everything since the initial incident has been the BPD circling wagons and trying to keep everyone quiet while they work out a narrative where the cops are blameless and everything can be pinned on a scary black man just refusing to listen to the cops.
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Apr 30, 2015 11:06
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semper wifi posted:What about obviously fleeing from the police, though? A Georgia cop of all people once explained to a class I was in that fleeing the police wasn't in and of itself probable cause. Doesn't matter how obvious it is.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:35
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semper wifi posted:I'm not justifying what the cops did, I'm criticizing the tendency for people in this thread to let high-profile victims of police violence completely off the hook, to the point of pretending that a 25 year old man qualifies as a "kid". The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. He did? All I saw was selling some dope, gambling, and carrying a knife. All nonviolent offenses that we know are disproportionately enforced against black people. Seems like he was just going about his business not harming anyone, but Big Government kept initiating force against him. semper wifi posted:Most likely scenario to me, considering the video, is that he was just limp back there bumping around after getting hurt in the arrest, and the cops who put him in assumed he was just being a dick. Would explain both the "mostly quiet" and the slamming around. Even taking your argument at face-value this is negligent homicide. Come on. If these were Obamacops taking some good old boy rancher or college Libertarian to a FEMA camp for possession of marijuana and he was dead when they got there, and someone piped up with "but--but he had an unlicensed concealed carry firearm when they picked him up so he was up to no good" you'd be like "stop defending Obama's fascist stormtroopers, just owning a firearm without a license isn't a reason to be killed, you Stalinist. Citizens need weapons to protect themselves from the feds!" VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 12:51
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semper wifi posted:I'm not justifying what the cops did, I'm criticizing the tendency for people in this thread to let high-profile victims of police violence completely off the hook, to the point of pretending that a 25 year old man qualifies as a "kid". The cops aren't great but Freddie, and Freddie alone, was the one who invited them into his life. WTF? All Gray did, literally, was look at a cop then run away. There hasn't been the slightest allegation that he did anything remotely criminal in this particular instance. Apart from, well, "being black in Baltimore", which is apparently an arrestable offense.
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Apr 30, 2015 13:34
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semper wifi, in your opinion, is it possible for police to abuse their power against civilians? If so, give a theoretical example of such abuse.
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Apr 30, 2015 13:48
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That rear end in a top hat cop who gave me a speeding ticket when I was just 5 over, what a dick 
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Apr 30, 2015 13:58
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:WTF? All Gray did, literally, was look at a cop then run away. There hasn't been the slightest allegation that he did anything remotely criminal in this particular instance. Well, he did do something criminal, but it sounds like everything criminal he did was only discovered after the police started to arrest him for gently caress knows what reason. Fleeing isn't illegal, but after the cops decided to arrest him anyway, resisting is, even if the arrest is bogus. And then of course they found that he possessed a knife he shouldn't have. Hindsight 20/20, and who knows what bullshit the cops would have or could have made up, but in those situations the more "correct" course of action is to comply with the arrest and then have a lawyer throw it out, but hahahaha, I'm saying this from the comfort of my computer, with a dad who is a public defender, and 8 years since college of gainful employment to save for emergencies like lawyers, so, I'm not about to say that's what I would have done if I were him.
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Apr 30, 2015 13:59
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Semper wifi gives the laziest troll possible and everyone bit.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:11
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Maybe we can have the fifteenth discussion about probable cause where we all realize that anything and everything is probable cause.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:14
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mlmp08 posted:Well, he did do something criminal, but it sounds like everything criminal he did was only discovered after the police started to arrest him for gently caress knows what reason. Fleeing isn't illegal, but after the cops decided to arrest him anyway, resisting is, even if the arrest is bogus. And then of course they found that he possessed a knife he shouldn't have. Cops breaking the 4th amendment is a big deal, especially if it's systematic. Not only is it illegal by way of the founding principles of our nation, but a waste of the money they could be using to pay their officers more.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:25
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Anora posted:Cops breaking the 4th amendment is a big deal, especially if it's systematic. Not only is it illegal by way of the founding principles of our nation, but a waste of the money they could be using to pay their officers more. I know.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:27
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Finally, some genuine outrage from a CNN reporter over the injustice in Baltimore.
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Apr 30, 2015 15:11
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I can't even form a coherent response to that. I just keep making this "hrnnng" noise and now I feel a weird throbbing in the back of my skull.
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