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Raskolnikov38 posted:on the other hand having a real socialist in the White House might finally make a few states and their congressional delegations quit the union, again. I would happily let them go. The whole "but congress will never work with (insert your left leaning candidate)" line is bullshit, because it's not like they'd work with Hillary or any other Democrat president either. As far as I can see it the entire attitude that Hillary is the candidate at this point in the race is pretty much handicapping for a Republican victory. It's a losing the game before it even starts.
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May 1, 2015 03:51
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Nintendo Kid posted:Bernie Sanders isn't going to do that, guy. First off because he won't be elected, secondly because even if he was he won't have a congress that will agree to his program. That's pretty negative. What if you're right?
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May 1, 2015 03:59
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Here's a crazy thought: What if he's wrong?
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May 1, 2015 04:02
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TEAYCHES posted:That's pretty negative. What if you're right? Haha what do you mean "if"? Describe your scenario where Bernie Sanders successfully wins the primaries and the general election.  The man himself doesn't believe he has a chance at winning the primary or general, he simply believes it's worth running for the ability to make points in the debates and the like. And he's right about that.
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May 1, 2015 04:03
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/29/bernie-sanders-interview-democratic-presidential-race/26576639/%5C Bernie Sanders: 'I am running in this election to win'
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May 1, 2015 04:07
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Saying that people aren't interested in or even excited for voting for Hillary sounds like in '08 when people said if Obama won the nomination all the Hillary supporters would stay home. They ran an extremely hard-fought primary, and that wouldn't have been possible if Hillary didn't have some real support. Plus, Hillary and Bill are still seen as a package deal (even in the 90s she was a very active First Lady) and the Clinton years have become very popular now that we have the misery of the Bush years and the slow recovery of the Obama years to compare them to. And in case we've forgotten, first female President is still kind of a big deal. About Hillary and Bill, I'm sure there's been a million and one psychologists and biographers trying to explain their marriage, but they do seem like an odd pair. Bill's whole sly charm thing and his philandering reputation are an unusual match for an extremely intelligent, savvy and driven woman planning on being America's first female President. I guess part and parcel of a Hillary candidacy is their personal lives will be under the microscope, although being in their 60s rather than their 40s when they reenter the White House might change things a little.
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May 1, 2015 04:09
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Under the vegetable posted:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/29/bernie-sanders-interview-democratic-presidential-race/26576639/%5C They all say it, it defeats the purpose otherwise.
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May 1, 2015 04:10
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True, I guess Nintendo Kid knows what Bernie's thinking more than Bernie does.
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May 1, 2015 04:10
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Under the vegetable posted:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/29/bernie-sanders-interview-democratic-presidential-race/26576639/%5C TBF that article could just as easily be a reprint of one from 2012 with a find/replace done for Bernie/Ron Paul and Mitt/Hillary E: that's not to say Bernie is the same as Ron but this is like the lightest of fluff pieces with nothing substantial in it other than the required 'I want to win'
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May 1, 2015 04:11
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Under the vegetable posted:http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/29/bernie-sanders-interview-democratic-presidential-race/26576639/%5C Come on, he has to say that the be taken seriously enough to have a chance of shifting the Dem narrative a bit leftward, as well as having any shot at a debate appearance in which he'd advocate for same. I mean seriously, as a Vermonter I love the guy to death despite his persistent accent, but I'm not deluding myself that he's the next Obama-esque dark horse that's going to storm to national prominence and snatch the nomination from Hillary's grasp a second time. Under the vegetable posted:True, I guess Nintendo Kid knows what Bernie's thinking more than Bernie does. Bernie's a veteran politician who knows how to play the game, with the singular advantage of not being up his own rear end about his chances. Fishmech's just recognizing what is frankly more than a little obvious, in this and only this specific instance. Captain_Maclaine fucked around with this message at 04:14 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 04:11
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I think the only legitimate left wing candidate is going to have to deal with enough naysaying and bullshit from the right that a bunch of impotent handwringing and half stepping from center-right left-identified folks seems unnecessary, but yall know best, I'm sure.
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May 1, 2015 04:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-IPuHpDWkU The problem with Sanders is that he looks like a grumpy old man that whines a lot. 
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May 1, 2015 04:14
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Under the vegetable posted:True, I guess Nintendo Kid knows what Bernie's thinking more than Bernie does. In an environment in which there is such a thing as "running for President purely to influence campaigns with an actual chance of winning," the purpose is lost unless you state that you are "running to win." If you can think of a candidate that fits the bill better than Bernie Sanders this election, I'd be interested to hear about it. Of course in the game of American politics, speculation as to the sincerity of various statements is a part of assessing campaigns. Your complaint is trite and boring.
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May 1, 2015 04:15
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And your criticism is purely speculative and intellectually dishonest. #whoa #unbelievable
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May 1, 2015 04:16
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Hillary doesn't actually believe she's a real politician and is just covering for her lack of confidence as her husband's surrogate. I know this because it's what I believe in my heart. I know she said contradictory stuff and claims to be legitimate but trust me. *Jake the Snake's music starts playing*
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May 1, 2015 04:18
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Dolash posted:Saying that people aren't interested in or even excited for voting for Hillary sounds like in '08 when people said if Obama won the nomination all the Hillary supporters would stay home. They ran an extremely hard-fought primary, and that wouldn't have been possible if Hillary didn't have some real support. Plus, Hillary and Bill are still seen as a package deal (even in the 90s she was a very active First Lady) and the Clinton years have become very popular now that we have the misery of the Bush years and the slow recovery of the Obama years to compare them to. I think it's dangerous to try to draw comparisons between Obama '08 and Hillary '16 in terms of voter turn-out. Obama had charisma and real momentum going into the general election. People wanted that HOPE and CHANGE. Very few people seem genuinely enthusiastic about Hillary in '16. At most it boils down to either "Well, it would be kind of cool to have a female president, I guess," or, "Well, she might be better than the Republican." Unless there is some game changing charisma that explodes out of her campaign in the next year and a half, I don't see her drumming up the votes.
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May 1, 2015 04:18
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Apparently, we must now ignore all evidence that Sanders stands a snowball's chance in Hell and that he is intelligent and weathered enough to realize this in favor of taking each and every campaign press release at face value.
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May 1, 2015 04:22
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Under the vegetable posted:And your criticism is purely speculative and intellectually dishonest. #whoa #unbelievable It's not for anyone who has even a basic understanding of Bernie's legislative career in both the House and Senate. He's maintained his position this long by playing his hand as a leftist firebrand only to, and never over, the limit, rather than pulling a Nader-esque kamikaze run driven by egomaniacal delusions. His claims of being "in it to win it" are tactical, nothing more. Which is not to say that if, a day or so after we all get unicorns and sustainable fusion reactors come on line worldwide, he saw a legit shot, he wouldn't take it, but there we are.
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May 1, 2015 04:23
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That's an interesting comparison for you to make, because I don't think anyone ever thought Nader had a chance of winning any of the times he ran, including Nader, partially because he ran loose, poorly focused campaigns with no appeals across party lines. Bernie is specifically trying to appeal to a broad audience and take votes more from disaffected poor working class whites who would traditionally vote Republican, and is very cautious about what he puts into the public eye, as you say. He has a small but legitimate chance.
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May 1, 2015 04:27
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Under the vegetable posted:That's an interesting comparison for you to make, because I don't think anyone ever thought Nader had a chance of winning any of the times he ran, including Nader, partially because he ran loose, poorly focused campaigns with no appeals across party lines. Bernie is specifically trying to appeal to a broad audience and take votes more from disaffected poor working class whites who would traditionally vote Republican, and is very cautious about what he puts into the public eye, as you say. He has a small but legitimate chance. I love that the great hope for leftists is going for "lets appeal to the white people".
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May 1, 2015 04:30
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Does it matter? He's running because he wants to be President. That he should realize how it will actually play out (and he probably does realize it) isn't really relevant because he's running to be President. A legitimate, in to win, campaign is indistinguishable from an effective campaign to shift Clinton to the left, so taking him at face value is not at all incompatible from viewing his campaign as one to 'just' influence Clinton. He's got a chance, though. It's slim, but it's possible Clinton implodes, or something else bizarre happens that opens the way for Bernie to move up front. He wouldn't be in if he didn't think there was a chance...because why would he just tilt at windmills after all these years of not? Ghost of Reagan Past fucked around with this message at 04:34 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 04:31
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computer parts posted:I love that the great hope for leftists is going for "lets appeal to the white people". It's more "maybe we shouldn't forget that a large portion of america is poor, white, and easily manipulated by right wing politics and we could do well by ceasing to ignore them in favor of coastal liberals with trust funds and tricking ethnic minorities into trusting democrats"
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May 1, 2015 04:32
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Under the vegetable posted:That's an interesting comparison for you to make, because I don't think anyone ever thought Nader had a chance of winning any of the times he ran, including Nader, partially because he ran loose, poorly focused campaigns with no appeals across party lines. Bernie is specifically trying to appeal to a broad audience and take votes more from disaffected poor working class whites who would traditionally vote Republican, and is very cautious about what he puts into the public eye, as you say. He has a small but legitimate chance. I disagree that Nader didn't think he had a shot as my accusation of his egomania ought make quite clear; any looseness and poverty of that campaign I ascribe more to him being a self-obsessed flake than anything else. I very much doubt a veteran leftist politician like Bernie has any delusions that he'll have much, if any, appeal to working class whites who usually vote GOP, if only because once they hear the word "socialist" they'll retract from their ballots with an almost-physical convulsion, and possibly cinematic hissing noise. I have yet to see anything to suggest that this isn't a run based solely on driving the Democratic platform leftward, and just about everything I've seen out of his office over the past year to suggest that's exactly what it is.
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May 1, 2015 04:35
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Under the vegetable posted:That's an interesting comparison for you to make, because I don't think anyone ever thought Nader had a chance of winning any of the times he ran, including Nader, partially because he ran loose, poorly focused campaigns with no appeals across party lines. Bernie is specifically trying to appeal to a broad audience and take votes more from disaffected poor working class whites who would traditionally vote Republican, and is very cautious about what he puts into the public eye, as you say. He has a small but legitimate chance. Next you'll say he might compromise on some things to further other legislative priorities!
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May 1, 2015 04:35
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It's almost like we should try to consider candidates for reasons other than ideological purity, genitals, height, or hair.
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May 1, 2015 04:39
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Weltlich posted:I think it's dangerous to try to draw comparisons between Obama '08 and Hillary '16 in terms of voter turn-out. Obama had charisma and real momentum going into the general election. People wanted that HOPE and CHANGE. Look at this thread. Seems like a bunch of reluctant people that are going to vote for her because she is a Democrat and/or that if she doesn't win the primary then any other Democrat would get trounced by a Republican which would lead to a war with Iran. I have no idea why you wouldn't just support Sanders now and if he loses the primary then just go with Hillary. Why join the Hillary now if you are so sure if she is going to win the primary? Hillary is as underwhelming as Obama was for me. Goldman loving Sachs is giving money to Hillary lmao. Why the gently caress would you ever vote for her in the primary versus Sanders? Enigma89 fucked around with this message at 04:53 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 04:48
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I want a dwarf candidate. Dennis Kucinich and Ross Perot were the closest we've ever come I believe.
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May 1, 2015 04:49
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Darkman Fanpage posted:I want a dwarf candidate. Dennis Kucinich and Ross Perot were the closest we've ever come I believe. do you mean a dwarf candidate as in somebody with dwarfism, or a dwarf candidate as in somebody who enjoys brandishing axes, swilling mead and hoarding gold bullion ron paul's pretty close in either case
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May 1, 2015 04:52
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Enigma89 posted:Look at this thread. Seems like a bunch of reluctant people that are going to vote for her because she is a Democrat and/or that if she doesn't win the primary then any other Democrat would get trounced by a Republican which would lead to a war with Iran. No, look at it. LOOK at it. LOOOOOOOK at it. It is a bunch of columns and lines of text. Avatars and poo poo on the left side. Maybe you have sigs on. Look at it. Look at this thread. (look at it) Anyway, I support Sanders running hard. I do not think he has a realistic chance and I imagine he realizes it, but I also don't honestly think there's any chance he can find some killer weapon that will slay Khaleesi outright, because he's one guy, and apparently not an rear end in a top hat, who doesn't have a poo poo ton of funding-- and the Republicans have been hunting, with much huger budgets, for decades. There are entire industries, just about, built around attempting to find scandals about Hillary (or at least her husband).
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May 1, 2015 04:56
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Either. Also coincidentally Kucinich and Perot were our most elfish presidential candidates too.
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May 1, 2015 04:56
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Are y'all seriously wondering how Bernie would act as President? Dude has zero chance at getting the nomination. Hillary could have a heart attack the day of the convention and they'd just shove Biden in there or something. He's this cycle's Kucinich, although he's a much better legislator than Kucinich ever was. Sure, I'll vote for him in the primaries because I support what he stands for, but he's got literally no chance of winning the nomination, much less the election. edit Under the vegetable posted:I think the only legitimate left wing candidate is going to have to deal with enough naysaying and bullshit from the right that a bunch of impotent handwringing and half stepping from center-right left-identified folks seems unnecessary, but yall know best, I'm sure. Is this your first Presidential election? We're being realistic, he's not electable outside of wacky states like Vermont. He'll be a great force in the primary debates, kind of like how Paul messed with the GOP guys in 08 and 12, and he might force Hillary to the left a bit, but that's about all we can hope for. Sir Tonk fucked around with this message at 05:01 on May 1, 2015 |
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May 1, 2015 04:56
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Christ, Bernie Sanders really is the left wing version of Ron Paul to the internet. I love him, and I hope he can at least get some real liberal dialogue going, but ten years from now he is going to be a tiny footnote in the 2016 election.
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May 1, 2015 04:58
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The majority of support I've encountered for Bernie has been talking to people in person, outside of the internet.
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May 1, 2015 05:02
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Sir Tonk posted:Are y'all seriously wondering how Bernie would act as President? Dude has zero chance at getting the nomination. Hillary could have a heart attack the day of the convention and they'd just shove Biden in there or something. This doesn't mean he's got any real chance, but like 2012 for the Republicans, I imagine Democrats will try all the different flavors and settle on Clinton, but they never would touch Kucinich. They'd at least taste Sanders. This is a weird analogy, honestly.
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May 1, 2015 05:19
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:He's a lot more likable by the average American than Kucinich was. Kucinich, and I like the guy, was kind of kooky. Sanders is much more down to earth and a guy your crazy father could see on TV and kind of identify with. He's got a better chance than Kucinich did just because he's so relatable. You want to lick Bernie Sanders, got it.
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May 1, 2015 05:21
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I love Bernie and I plan on supporting him the primaries but anybody who thinks that America would elect an old Jewish socialist as the democratic candidate, much less President, is out of their mind.
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May 1, 2015 05:25
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Maple tastes great, man.
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May 1, 2015 05:25
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Useless Shotgun posted:I love Bernie and I plan on supporting him the primaries but anybody who thinks that America would elect an old Jewish socialist as the democratic candidate, much less President, is out of their mind. I'd just vote third party if he doesn't go through. I already feel the sting of him only getting <10% of the votes in the primaries 
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May 1, 2015 05:38
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Under the vegetable posted:True, I guess Nintendo Kid knows what Bernie's thinking more than Bernie does. He's not wrong.
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May 1, 2015 05:44
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Maybe Bernie will be VP 
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May 1, 2015 05:54
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