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Josef bugman posted:To me it seemed vaguely sensible and, irregardless of being the victims of a horrific attack I do not especially like CH. Fine with them existing, but just think that a lot of their stuff is a leaning a bit too heavily on the racist side. I hadn't heard of CH until the attacks, which shamed me, because I like to think this stuff is on my radar. But this also speaks to the perspective that if you don't want to read it, you don't have to. French sensibilities are a little strange to me (a Murricun) but I'm pretty sure CH is not racist. Maybe that Parisian irony is thick enough to confuse out-of-towners.
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May 1, 2015 07:42
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Gimnbo posted:It's that every other poster's opinion is wrong. No, it's that every poster who disagrees with me is wrong, you fatalistic over-generalising pseudo-intellectual putz. It's also that any incident can be easily reframed into either of the ill-defined, arbitrarily binary camps.
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May 1, 2015 07:49
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 An old TMW because I had it on my desktop for some reason.
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May 1, 2015 08:33
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Here's an example of how Charlie Hebdo works. The cover of 1187 shows Kate Winslet singing "Titanic" bullshit on the front of a sinking boat filled with the (then) most recent Libyan refugees to die fleeing the conflict there. Caption: A Titanic Every Week! This initially seems tasteless until you notice several similar cartoons in the same issue. Then you realize it wasn't a momentary lapse of judgment; in fact, they're really running it up your rear end at this point. Eventually, you read the essay contrasting the treatment of regular immigrants with that of refugees. To gain legal entry as an immigrant you must display exceptional skills unmatched by the locals. To gain entry as a refugee... Well.. What DO you do, exactly? The decision to admit a foreigner is determined by commerce, not humanitarianism. The U.S. has similar immigration policies, so this doesn't sound far-fetched to me. And now the cartoon "Immigration is working! These sixty immigrants on a jet ski are bringing exceptional skills to Europe!" seems funny to me. And sick, and sad.
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May 1, 2015 08:38
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WarpedNaba posted:I'm rather ignorant on stereotypes. I know Och aye the noo is a'thing', but what the hell does it mean? Technically it means "Oh yes, now", but no Scot has ever actually said it other than as a self-referential joke. On the other hand, we in the UKMT and ScotPol thread are afflicted with a revolution tourist from Switzerland who does frequently affect Scots dialect both in speech and typing, so the cartoon holds the rather unique distinction of having no connection to reality but still being absolutely accurate.
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May 1, 2015 08:38
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Mordiceius posted:I'm pumped as gently caress that Sanders is running. I can't wait to see how bad the cartoons flip the gently caress out over him. I love the crap out of Bernie. But at the same time I'm a bit worried that if a miracle occurs and he wins the Dem primary that he'd be too far to the left for the General. Obviously the shrieking children in the Tea Party are a small group but a large percentage of this country is center-right or Libertarian and would probably vote for someone like Jeb or Walker over him.
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May 1, 2015 09:05
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Prokhor Zakharov posted:Muir you dumbfuck helicopters cost like $300 per hour to fly lmao Or have the gas station declared a consulate. You can fix any problem by making it a consulate.
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May 1, 2015 09:57
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pwn posted:He'll have Daddy ex Machina declare the 'copter a consulate and 'Toly can gas up for free from anywhere because lol. Four months later, Zed died of liver
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May 1, 2015 10:02
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Josef bugman posted:So what is the general thread opinion on the whole "punch down" thing?
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May 1, 2015 10:18
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Rorus Raz posted:Punching below the belt is against league rules. Please punch up or perfectly horizontal. Thumb sticks may make this harder for some people, so try using the d-pad.
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May 1, 2015 10:20
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vyelkin posted:Yeah it's really bad. quote:"The 'weighting' of whether a contractor had enough equipment or not was only 15 per cent of the whole picture," said Lysyk. "They could pass stage one even if they had zero points associated with equipment, and they got into stage two, which was just based on costs." This is hilarious in its frankness, but the situation is the norm. Step 1: cut funding so public service goes to poo poo. Step 2: using step 1, justify going with more efficient private sector. Step 3: privatized service goes even more to poo poo and ends up costing more. Step 4: because costs have risen, save money by cutting funding to another public service... Josef bugman posted:So what is the general thread opinion on the whole "punch down" thing? It's dumb and stupid and a way to dismiss viewpoints that contradict yours, so anyone who uses such arguments is an imbecile. There was this cartoon that was posted several pages back that was pretending to be a handy guide to what targets are acceptable. It listed religious leaders (like Khamenei), their enforcers (like Daesh), and their dogma (like cautiously abstaining from selecting anything specifically from Islam here), but not the little people. That's cool and good, except that cartoons depicting terrorists are "punching down" when they're written in a language you don't understand, obviously. Back in January, Sorensen was concern-trolling about being interested in what French cartoonists from Middle-Eastern origins were thinking about the awful racism of Charlie Hebdo; it apparently never hit her that the most famous French cartoonist from Middle-Eastern origins, Riad Sattouf, is a regular at CH.
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May 1, 2015 10:20
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KillerJunglist posted:So quick update: This was the right thing to do, good job.
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May 1, 2015 10:28
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RaspberryCommie posted:I love the crap out of Bernie. But at the same time I'm a bit worried that if a miracle occurs and he wins the Dem primary that he'd be too far to the left for the General. I imagine that's going to be in play for Clinton as well despite how conservative she is in pretty much everything but social issues. There are way, way too many people who voted for Obama but will go on to vote for a Republican in 2016 because it's 'their turn.' I can't see Bernie winning the primary, but I'm hoping he'll do well enough to warrant being bought off with a high position in the Clinton presidency...and that he's agree to take it instead of just flipping Clinton the bird and moon-walking out the door out of sheer contrariness.
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May 1, 2015 10:37
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70 hours of research 
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May 1, 2015 10:47
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Josef bugman posted:So what is the general thread opinion on the whole "punch down" thing? Exclamation Marx posted:A nice rule but entirely seperate from the fact Trudeau, like much of the anglo left, is profoundly ignorant of CH. Gimnbo posted:It's that every other poster's opinion is wrong. Grapplejack posted:Making an argument "punch up / punch down" is a gross simplification and should be avoided if possible." NoEyedSquareGuy posted:You can't punch down if you're a political cartoonist. Sardine Wit posted:It's as good as you'll find for a general rule about writing comedy. That said, general rules break down in practice and you pretty much always need to use discretion, compassion and common sense. Somfin posted:it's that every poster who disagrees with me is wrong Rorus Raz posted:Punching below the belt is against league rules. Please punch up or perfectly horizontal. Cat Mattress posted:It's dumb and stupid and a way to dismiss viewpoints that contradict yours, so anyone who uses such arguments is an imbecile. So yeah, that's the general thread opinion in a nutshell.
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May 1, 2015 10:50
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RaspberryCommie posted:I love the crap out of Bernie. But at the same time I'm a bit worried that if a miracle occurs and he wins the Dem primary that he'd be too far to the left for the General.  "might too be too far to the left for the General"The man's a goddamn pacifist, and a socialist to boot. He's unelectable, and he'll never make it to the primary, thank God. I'd much rather vote for Clinton than Jeb, even if I'm not in love with her foreign policy.
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May 1, 2015 10:55
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Cat Army 
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WarpedNaba posted:I'm rather ignorant on stereotypes. I know Och aye the noo is a'thing', but what the hell does it mean? i know 'mon' means 'man' but I don't think 'och' means anything
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May 1, 2015 11:36
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"Och" is just an exclamation, like "Oh."
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May 1, 2015 11:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9OWEwVA_o
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May 1, 2015 11:42
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scotch mist is the best Darkplace episode by the way. watch all of them but especially scotch mist
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May 1, 2015 11:44
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oddium posted:i know 'mon' means 'man' but I don't think 'och' means anything It's just one of those words that shows up in phrases or exclamations but doesn't really have much stand alone meaning, like "oh" or "ay" or "ah" or something. You rarely hear it outside of either "och aye" which basically means "oh yes" or just "och!" which is just like saying any other random exclamation.
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May 1, 2015 11:46
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 Government in talk with the Australian Public Service about wages and stuff, also buys more joint strike fighters.
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May 1, 2015 12:25
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Zetsubou-san posted:
?????????  good depiction of the f35 in any case
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May 1, 2015 12:32
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Zetsubou-san posted:you really should start cross-posting First Dog in the politoons thread. First Dog on the Moon is an Australian political cartoon that is seen as "bad" by a number of posters in the Australian Politics thread. That being said the fact that they hang out in the Australian Politics thread shows that their judgement is, at best, suspect. The author prefers a more wordy and multi-panel style that gives greater background to the relevant events and issues, and thus it is more a political cartoon for those who are either not politically engaged or who are too busy to be effectively politically engaged than the Pope example posted above, which took some time to puzzle out. I am providing today's dose in this thread under duress. For context for the following one, Indonesia executed a couple of Australians the other day. Front page everywhere here so knowing about it is assumed.  For more First Dog, just go to The Guardian or follow the Auspol Thread, since I typically post new ones there when they get released.
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May 1, 2015 12:44
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May 1, 2015 12:49
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bitey posted:I hadn't heard of CH until the attacks, which shamed me, because I like to think this stuff is on my radar. But this also speaks to the perspective that if you don't want to read it, you don't have to. They definitely are not. The best way to describe left wing french political humor would be -to quote world famous intellectual Didier Super- "vaut mieux en rire que de s'en foutre" or "it's better to laugh than not to care". I understand that in America, where humor was sometimes used to demean and humiliate minorities (minstrel shows, for instance), this outlook on life and social issues might appear callous and rude, but you have to understand that in those kinds of joke, we're meant to feel sorry for the victims; by laughing about someone's pain we basically acknowledge that it exists.
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May 1, 2015 12:52
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I also thought the cartoons were pretty racist, but hey, wouldn't be the first (or below 100th) time I was wrong.
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May 1, 2015 13:42
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Eggghhh, Scalia is bad enough without having to falsely accuse him of racism - this is pretty lazy imo.
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May 1, 2015 13:58
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Dr. Killjoy posted:Eggghhh, Scalia is bad enough without having to falsely accuse him of racism - this is pretty lazy imo. He's probably pretty racist if he's complaining about "racial entitlements." Helping to gut the VRA puts him solidly in the "doesn't get the benefit of the doubt" column. http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/in-voting-rights-scalia-sees-a-racial-entitlement
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May 1, 2015 14:03
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Sardine Wit posted:It's as good as you'll find for a general rule about writing comedy. That said, general rules break down in practice and you pretty much always need to use discretion, compassion and common sense. I can't believe you're saying the Charlie Hebdo cartoonists deserved to die.
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May 1, 2015 14:06
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I feel like a lot of people are like "i saw a couple of cartoons from them, I didn't really know what they were about but they seemed pretty racist." Earlier itt someone French did a really good rundown of the last pre-attack edition of CH, as well as gave some context for some of their more racist-seeming cartoons. You should read it before you judge.
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May 1, 2015 14:27
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alnilam posted:I feel like a lot of people are like "i saw a couple of cartoons from them, I didn't really know what they were about but they seemed pretty racist." Earlier itt someone French did a really good rundown of the last pre-attack edition of CH, as well as gave some context for some of their more racist-seeming cartoons. You should read it before you judge. They're still pretty easy to see as racist if you aren't inside that tradition. Like unless you come at it from that perspective, looking for that, the "the Koran is poo poo, it doesn't stop bullets" one is real offensive because it comes off as mocking the people who got gunned down, as an example. And it's not necessarily cool and good for in group stuff to be strongly offensive towards marginalized groups, because they aren't part of that tradition.
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May 1, 2015 14:40
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Zetsubou-san posted:
That plane in the cartoon, still better than the F-35
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May 1, 2015 14:54
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wins.
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xthetenth posted:They're still pretty easy to see as racist if you aren't inside that tradition. Like unless you come at it from that perspective, looking for that, the "the Koran is poo poo, it doesn't stop bullets" one is real offensive because it comes off as mocking the people who got gunned down, as an example. And it's not necessarily cool and good for in group stuff to be strongly offensive towards marginalized groups, because they aren't part of that tradition. That's fine if that's what you think, as long as you have some context on which to think so. I'm mainly talking about all the people who have very little context but saw one cartoon one time and it looked kinda racist so they make a conclusion.
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May 1, 2015 15:14
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 Worst Burt Bacharach song ever. 
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May 1, 2015 15:14
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I like the Rallian geometry.
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May 1, 2015 15:19
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The whole "don't punch down" thing just comes off to me as victim-blaming couched in more eloquent terms in this instance. Like yeah satire should punch up but to say they deserved or earned what they got is loving awful.
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May 1, 2015 15:19
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razorrozar posted:The whole "don't punch down" thing just comes off to me as victim-blaming couched in more eloquent terms in this instance. As an idea it predates and doesn't inherently have anything to do with the murders, it has to do with works. It goes weird places when something designed to criticize work gets used in that context.
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May 1, 2015 15:22
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Every single Charlie hebdo cover I've seen was racist as gently caress but that doesn't mean I think they deserved to die and it's really loving sad that people require you make that distinction
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May 1, 2015 15:29
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Mister Beeg posted:
Hmm. Kinda out of ideas for this week's toon. Oh! I know what I'll do! I'll just copy and paste a Christopher Hitchens column into my penguin's mouth! Done and done. (I still like TMW. But this isn't a political cartoon, it's just...like...an argument.)
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May 1, 2015 15:32
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