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Plom Bar posted:I went through periods of not reading this thread while reading Homestuck, so I'm curious: when it was revealed in A6I3 that Davesprite and Jade had dated, as well as Dave and Terezi, did y'all whine about this comic pandering to heterosexual folks then? I don't believe there was a lengthy conversation in which "fictional characters deconstruct hegemonic masculinity at length to the end of understanding and eradicating prejudice" back then, which, personally, is the problem I have with this update. It feels very, very forced and pandering. Android Blues and Arsenic Lupin made some good posts about how the content of Dave's revelations have an excellent place in his character arc & in the comic as a whole, but I'm not really sold on the form. Dolash posted:I'm curious if the Dave from the now-retconned timeline who's in the afterlife will eventually reach similar conclusions or if there actually might be something to the "gay butterfly" joke - I don't just mean in terms of sexuality (and if Dave is bi that does offer some flexibility), I just mean Dave's entire different arc of development. Is it possible that a different Dave wouldn't just develop "wrong" or fail to get to where this Dave is, but rather develop differently? The last Dave died while springing into action in an effort to save Jade, fulfilling (admittedly, failing) the hero expectation that this new Dave has instead rejected. TBH, I miss when the dead were stagnant and unable to grow. It gave some weight to death, which is something this comic has a great deal of trouble with...
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May 2, 2015 23:31
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Hussie definitely has Opinions on the connection between society and sexuality. I remember back when he had his formspring going he said that Kanaya isn't a lesbian because she is not a human and would not view being exclusively into girls as an orientation the way a human would. She might not even be cognisant of the fact that she's never been interested in a boy. Dave is just expressing the same basic idea. I'd be interested to see Kanaya's take on the matter actually.
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May 2, 2015 23:44
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Tenebrais posted:Hussie definitely has Opinions on the connection between society and sexuality. I remember back when he had his formspring going he said that Kanaya isn't a lesbian because she is not a human and would not view being exclusively into girls as an orientation the way a human would. She might not even be cognisant of the fact that she's never been interested in a boy. Also worth noting Dirk, who described terms like 'gay' as 'antediluvian'. (As a pun, of course...)
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May 2, 2015 23:47
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I hope the comic ends with just a huge 1920x1080 flash that is just a single frame that says "LIKE WHO YOU LIKE, GOD DAMMIT"
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May 2, 2015 23:49
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I wonder how many impressionable young teenagers read this update, and had their minds blown and proceeded to take a critical look at sexuality and how it affects them and their close ones.
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May 2, 2015 23:50
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CJacobs posted:I hope the comic ends Homestuck will never end
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May 2, 2015 23:51
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:I agree that this is a huge load of text but if we imagine this as an insistently submitted reader input command along the lines of ==> Dave: Use the postapocalypse's dissolution of all meaningful social constructs to question your entire culture's heterosexist masculinity and arrive at a deeper understanding of yourself it's really in keeping with the spirit of the comic's premise. I'm still waiting for him to get around to that. EDIT: At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he just off-handedly mentions doing so during the meteor trip. Just to gently caress with us.
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May 3, 2015 00:14
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CJacobs posted:I hope the comic ends with just a huge 1920x1080 flash that is just a single frame that says "LIKE WHO YOU LIKE, GOD DAMMIT" There's only one rule that I know of, babies- God drat it, you've got to be
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May 3, 2015 00:20
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Given that black romance is specifically described as unpleasant, I like that John openly decides to refuse to think about it. Sort of cutting the knot there.
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May 3, 2015 00:38
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PleasingFungus posted:Android Blues and Arsenic Lupin made some good posts about how the content of Dave's revelations have an excellent place in his character arc & in the comic as a whole, but I'm not really sold on the form. Dave is a funny guy but also has issues dot tee ex tee Honestly the update made me think back to that thing from PBS where the guy rambles about how Homestuck is like Gravity's Rainbow. It's still the lamest comparison ever, of course, but I'm reminded of the sections in Vineland where Pynchon stops making dick jokes and Hey Lois Remember Godzilla references and sits in a chair youth-pastor style to rap with us about how the 60s killed hope in America. Just weird dissonance between profane low humor and attempts at significance. Whether that "works" or not is an entirely different question. oh and both authors love silly musical numbers. in conclusion homestuck can be compared and contrasted. paranoid randroid fucked around with this message at 00:48 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 00:40
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Jazu posted:Given that black romance is specifically described as unpleasant, I like that John openly decides to refuse to think about it. Sort of cutting the knot there. Yeah I mean I'm pretty down with most of the ideas presented in this update but black romance is, was, and forever will be the line where I go 
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May 3, 2015 01:42
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Captain Oblivious posted:Yeah I mean I'm pretty down with most of the ideas presented in this update but black romance is, was, and forever will be the line where I go It is something that only makes sense if it begins with one party actively tricking the other party into killing themselves. So you know. Not really feasible. ...Most of the time.
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May 3, 2015 01:46
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Huh. When I read Karkat's description of it in this update, I went "Oh. Beatrice and Benedick. Rosalind Russell and Cary Grant in His Girl Friday. Got it." The original description screamed "mutual destruction pact", but "this person drives me insane in the best possible way" can be a lot of fun without leading to expensive bloodstain-cleaning bills.
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May 3, 2015 01:52
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Yeah, this is a more moderate description of kismesis coming from a more mature Karkat. Previous, more intensely adolescent Karkat was all about A HATE SO PURE, etc, but a romantic relationship with a skilled rival who causes you to feel alternating frustration with and admiration for them makes sense to me, even if it's unusual. It's made clear by Gamzee and Terezi's awful thing that actively destructive kismeses that make your life worse are considered a harmful, bad relationship regardless of the blackness of their quadrant. And that's one of the things auspistices (and sometimes moirails!) are for! Android Blues fucked around with this message at 02:00 on May 3, 2015 |
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May 3, 2015 01:57
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, this is a more moderate description of kismesis coming from a more mature Karkat. Previous, more intensely adolescent Karkat was all about A HATE SO PURE, etc, but a romantic relationship with a skilled rival who causes you to feel alternating frustration with and admiration for them makes sense to me, even if it's unusual.
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May 3, 2015 02:04
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WAR FOOT posted:Homestuck will never end What are you talking about? It's scheduled to end sometime around April 2010.
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May 3, 2015 02:07
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JT Jag posted:Blackrom is the "A bond girl screws over James for an entire movie, then at the end they gently caress even though she never really stopped being an antagonist" quadrant
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May 3, 2015 02:09
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JT Jag posted:Blackrom is the "A bond girl screws over James for an entire movie, then at the end they gently caress even though she never really stopped being an antagonist" quadrant Basically it's hatefucking with a relationship attached to it.
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May 3, 2015 02:10
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Hello, Marquise Spinneret and Orphaner Dualscar. The real question is, how do non-pirates manage it? I think you pretty much have to be a pirate, or maybe a gangster. For most trolls this isn't a problem. Also I can only imagine the troll intergalactic star fleet is absolutely rife with eruptive mid-voyage kismeses causing ships to crash, missions to be derailed, alien species to go un-subjugglated, etc. Just a bunch of petty officers playing out their miniature double-crossing caper movies with each other on the Empress' dime.
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May 3, 2015 02:12
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Android Blues posted:Also I can only imagine the troll intergalactic star fleet is absolutely rife with eruptive mid-voyage kismeses causing ships to crash, missions to be derailed, alien species to go un-subjugglated, etc. Just a bunch of petty officers playing out their miniature double-crossing caper movies with each other on the Empress' dime. I wish to subscribe to your webcomic.
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May 3, 2015 02:15
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I really do love that the Trolls are basically a thought experiment in what would happen if fanfiction and melodrama were the generative principles for an entire species.
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May 3, 2015 02:39
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H.P. Shivcraft posted:I really do love that the Trolls are basically a thought experiment in what would happen if fanfiction and melodrama were the generative principles for an entire species. This is basically humanity already.
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May 3, 2015 02:44
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Android Blues posted:I think you pretty much have to be a pirate, or maybe a gangster. For most trolls this isn't a problem.
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May 3, 2015 03:06
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Android Blues posted:Also I can only imagine the troll intergalactic star fleet is absolutely rife with eruptive mid-voyage kismeses causing ships to crash, missions to be derailed, alien species to go un-subjugglated, etc. Just a bunch of petty officers playing out their miniature double-crossing caper movies with each other on the Empress' dime. This is genuinely the best spinoff idea I've seen pitched.
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May 3, 2015 03:54
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Arsenic Lupin posted:The reason this update had me air-punching is that Dave isn't introspective, either. Dave puts on the world's most elaborate razzle-dazzle to appear sophisticated and self-knowing, but he works very very hard not to examine himself and his motivations. Remember when we first saw him earnestly ignoring the creepiness of (A) Li'l Cal and (B) his brother's porn website? Dave saying "I looked at the emotional foundations of my worldview and decided they were bullshit" is what we Internet-based psychoanalyists call a breakthrough. Actually, about bro's puppet fetish website. Knowing what we now know about Lil Cal, it's very possible all that was just a way for Bro to mess with Lord English. "That vessel you use to transport your spirit across time, the multiverse, and beyond? There's a chance I hosed it. " Of course that's no excuse for exposing a kid to that kind of weirdness. That, and this theory is dependent on just how much the guardians knew about what was really going on. Their cagey behavior is a loose end I really hope gets tied up.
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May 3, 2015 04:19
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, this is a more moderate description of kismesis coming from a more mature Karkat. Previous, more intensely adolescent Karkat was all about A HATE SO PURE, etc, but a romantic relationship with a skilled rival who causes you to feel alternating frustration with and admiration for them makes sense to me, even if it's unusual. See, I liked the idea of troll romance being an alien thing for aliens that humans just aren't equipped neurologically to really get. But I feel like this is Hussie taking a step back on that.
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May 3, 2015 04:32
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Stayton posted:Actually, about bro's puppet fetish website. Knowing what we now know about Lil Cal, it's very possible all that was just a way for Bro to mess with Lord English. Well, Mom Lalonde and Dad Egbert aren't necessarily weird. One's just an alcoholic who loving loves wizards and the other is a prankster who is also into SERIOUS BUSINESS. And Grandpa Harley just has an interest in hunting and armor. Bro is really the only one who is actively a negative influence on Dave beyond a normal parent.
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May 3, 2015 04:38
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Dad was only into the funny business because of John's crazy clown scrawlings though, right?
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May 3, 2015 04:59
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Being a human myself I can say with confidence that Black Romance is not a real thing for us regardless of whether we can kind of compare it to some familiar relationship types. Moirails are also a weird troll relationship even though we already have the idea of best friends and auspicitizing is broadly a thing humans do when they have to but I can hardly imagine someone wanting to do it, much less building a relationship category around it. It's just weird alien stuff and cross-cultural-exchange aside I don't think John could really support two relationships at once, one based on affection and one on frustration.WAR FOOT posted:This is genuinely the best spinoff idea I've seen pitched. I think part of the appeal of Homestuck is all the worldbuilding Hussie's done creates all these vibrant, interesting narrative spaces that feel ripe for exploration. Just about everyone who's read Homestuck imagines their own game of Sburb, there's plenty of little mysteries surrounding the lives and significances of the carapace peoples, troll culture is a lunatic assortment of odds and ends (with a pre-Scratch version for flavor), post-Scratch Earth gives us the terror that is a joint juggalo presidency, even the cherubs have a lot of potential. There's heaps of fan fiction and fan art attesting to how interesting people find Homestuck's multiverse, and the game and Paradox Space are both part of this exploration as well. If it weren't for the fact that Hussie keeps exploding these universes and blowing up all the planets he could probably spin Homestuck out into a whole collaborative project where people write about the lives of Troll naval captains, Dersite bureaucrats, alien Sburb sessions and post-Guy-Fieri revolutionaries.
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May 3, 2015 05:17
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Classtoise posted:Well, Mom Lalonde and Dad Egbert aren't necessarily weird. One's just an alcoholic who loving loves wizards and the other is a prankster who is also into SERIOUS BUSINESS. And Grandpa Harley just has an interest in hunting and armor. Grandpa Harley nearly got Jade killed because he let her play with loaded guns as a child. Edit: and he wasn't even watching her while she was doing it, he was having a tea party several yards away with a blue realdoll.
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May 3, 2015 05:29
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That was Bec's job.
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May 3, 2015 05:36
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Jago posted:Dad was only into the funny business because of John's crazy clown scrawlings though, right? He was the (adopted?) grandson of Col. Sassacre, and that universe's Jane was apparently a prankster herself. I'd say he was probably into that stuff anyway. The clown/harlequin thing came from John's wall drawings though.
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May 3, 2015 05:39
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Dolash posted:I think part of the appeal of Homestuck is all the worldbuilding Hussie's done creates all these vibrant, interesting narrative spaces that feel ripe for exploration. Just about everyone who's read Homestuck imagines their own game of Sburb, there's plenty of little mysteries surrounding the lives and significances of the carapace peoples, troll culture is a lunatic assortment of odds and ends (with a pre-Scratch version for flavor), post-Scratch Earth gives us the terror that is a joint juggalo presidency, even the cherubs have a lot of potential. That and, the characters are all variously demented/broken/immature, but curious enough that they actually learn things about themselves by trying to relate to each other. It's also the most successful ploy to get people to read lots of color-coded chat logs.
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May 3, 2015 06:48
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PleasingFungus posted:I don't believe there was a lengthy conversation in which "fictional characters deconstruct hegemonic masculinity at length to the end of understanding and eradicating prejudice" back then, which, personally, is the problem I have with this update. It feels very, very forced and pandering. I don't think the form is too out-of-the-blue either, it's pretty easy to forget since it's more obvious in the earlier portions of Homestuck, but weird long rambling screeds do fit with Dave's M.O. See him improvising a fursona on Jade's pesterchum when she isn't around to respond, or his hijacking of Tavros' trolling attempt. He does have the capacity to take a subject and go on a big fixated tangent while other people are passive or zone out, it just happens that he's now more mature and self-aware enough for that subject to be reflection on his and society's differing views of masculinity and sexuality, instead of his young immature tactic of using those outdated views of masculinity and sexuality to bother people. He even admits that's exactly what he used to do, in that latest conversation. Honestly, he and Karkat are probably more alike than they figured. 
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May 3, 2015 07:31
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Classtoise posted:Well, Mom Lalonde and Dad Egbert aren't necessarily weird. One's just an alcoholic who loving loves wizards and the other is a prankster who is also into SERIOUS BUSINESS. And Grandpa Harley just has an interest in hunting and armor. What I mean by cagey behavior is that they all knew about Sburb to some degree. It's even implied mom Lalonde was involved in its creation on Earth. They all sought to prepare theirs charges in some way, yet none of them gave them the whole story.
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May 3, 2015 07:32
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Grandpa Harley nearly got Jade killed because he let her play with loaded guns as a child. I'm sorry but why do you hate Freedom and America and Jesus 
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May 3, 2015 07:34
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Classtoise posted:I'm sorry but why do you hate Freedom and America and Jesus I'm just sayin' that neither Jake or Dirk should be allowed within 500 feet of a baby.
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May 3, 2015 07:37
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:I'm just sayin' that neither Jake or Dirk should be allowed within 500 feet of a baby. I don't think Dirk and Jake should be allowed within 500 feet of anyone. I'm pretty sure they're a good fit for each other in a relationship simply because it lessens the risk that someone else gets saddled with them.
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May 3, 2015 07:39
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Classtoise posted:I don't think Dirk and Jake should be allowed within 500 feet of anyone. The "I'm poison, you're poison, let's go be a toxic waste dump together" theory of dating.
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May 3, 2015 08:35
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The Sezza posted:I don't think the form is too out-of-the-blue either, it's pretty easy to forget since it's more obvious in the earlier portions of Homestuck, but weird long rambling screeds do fit with Dave's M.O. See him improvising a fursona on Jade's pesterchum when she isn't around to respond, or his hijacking of Tavros' trolling attempt. Oh man I forgot what solid gold classic Dave was 
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