Ler posted:What do you want to study? Although I'm all for abandoning Australia and not providing any more money or brainpower to enable this lovely country, studying in Europe isn't that easy. You need to find a university that provides English speaking courses in your field which is probably going to be in either the UK or the Netherlands. The UK doesn't have to be super expensive if you don't live in London but it also doesn't have the progressive education system you're talking about here. The fees change between countries in the EU as well - they're not identical across the board, and the fees in Germany have been misrepresented in social media lately. The NL is a better bet but be prepared for a lot of cold wet days and a more reserved culture than you're used to in Australia. Additionally, I don't know about post-grad stuff but the tertiary education system in most EU countries is quite different to that of Aus, for undergrad at least in Germany and France and Italy it tends to be large lectures and a lot of self-managed work, far less tutorials and things like that. Undergrad in Italy is actually this bizarre system where students proceed at their own pace and so can often take close to a decade for a simple degree, because they choose to push certain subjects and exams (like English exams) way to the end and then freak out and forget how to study. I'm not saying it's impossible or that the degrees are worthless but it's not as simple as "400 euros a year and you get to bang French guys/girls". There are a lot of fantastic reasons to do it but saving money isn't terribly high up there.
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May 5, 2015 09:26
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Sulla-Marius 88 posted:Studying in Europe isn't that easy. You need to find a university that provides English speaking courses in your field which is probably going to be in either the UK or the Netherlands. This isn't true. I know plenty of universities across all the Nordics, NL, Belgium, France, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Czech, Italy, Switzerland and even in Spain that provide masters in English. Sure finding one in your field is the question but it isn't terribly difficult - not like it was 5 or 10 years ago. Since the GFC I would say there has been a large shift towards teaching graduate programs and a push to bring in more bachelors programs in English. There are also programs that are spread across 4 countries, 1 semester in each. My ex did this and ended up in Denmark, Belgium, Spain and Austria - all in English - an urban development/city planning masters. The easiest quick resource to use is mastersportal.eu and go from there. There really is a huge wealth of courses out there across at least a dozen countries that will be fully taught in English. Personally I completed an undergrad and masters in Sweden, I studied courses in Spain and Netherlands and taught some classes in Vienna. I would advocate any one going abroad for the masters for the reason that it is an incredible experience to live abroad that, even if temporarily. You will probably end up paying the same in the end, ie: In Australia - you're legally able to work while you study, but you pay $15- 20k for a masters. In EU - you may or may not get to work (depending on your visa, country and even university and you spend about $15k-20k on living expenses over 2 years
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May 5, 2015 09:42
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Negligent posted:by that time Australian universities will be so bereft of funding they will basically prostitute themselves to cashed-up internationals. So yes! Come here and share a postgrad degree with someone who can barely speak English. But this is already the case.
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May 5, 2015 09:47
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Ler posted:This isn't true. I know plenty of universities across all the Nordics, NL, Belgium, France, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Czech, Italy, Switzerland and even in Spain that provide masters in English. Sure finding one in your field is the question but it isn't terribly difficult - not like it was 5 or 10 years ago. Since the GFC I would say there has been a large shift towards teaching graduate programs and a push to bring in more bachelors programs in English. I know my girlfriend had been looking at unis all over Europe and the only ones with postgrad courses she could do were in the UK and the NL (possibly scandinavia as well but she doesn't want to go that far north). I guess it depends on your field or maybe we just sucked at looking - I've tried finding a course I'd want to do but as soon as you step outside of an English-speaking country your options are far more limited. I guess it depends how important the specifics of your course are? You can find an English postgrad course in History super easily but whether it's your chosen/preferred area is a different matter.
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May 5, 2015 09:56
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Tony Abbott can't put his loving homophobia away for a few minutes to meet the partner of our ambassador to France, asking him to stay in the car instead. loving turd of a man.
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May 5, 2015 10:34
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Waitgate?
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May 5, 2015 10:53
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Twitter seems to think so, though that might just be ewe2..
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May 5, 2015 10:55
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Gough Suppressant posted:Tony Abbott can't put his loving homophobia away for a few minutes to meet the partner of our ambassador to France, asking him to stay in the car instead. loving turd of a man. This is all a big shake-up by the left-wing media. While Abbott's office has no comment on the matter, outsider LNP MP Josh Frydenberg can confirm that, while he has absolutely no knowledge of the event in any capacity, he knows that Abbott was very happy to meet this specific same-sex couple and that he personally doubts (without categorically denying it) the instruction was ever given. He knows this because at an unspecified time in the past Abbott pulled him aside and said "Hey, don't ask me why I'm mentioning this, and it's not a big deal or anything, but about a month ago I met the Ambassador to France and his same-sex partner on the tarmac at some dime-a-dozen ceremony and I was very happy to do so. Very happy indeed. Now, I need to go, but make sure you remember that."
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May 5, 2015 12:10
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May 5, 2015 12:38
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imo its more likely toned abs handlers were afraid of a photo of their guy with a samesex couple than any actual homophobia on his part i mean the dude is p cool with rolling around in his undies to the extent its a lovely meme so
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May 5, 2015 14:55
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Negligent posted:imo its more likely toned abs handlers were afraid of a photo of their guy with a samesex couple than any actual homophobia on his part He finds homosexuality "threatening" (his words).
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May 5, 2015 15:01
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well if t.abbs was so petrified of catching teh ghey then he probably wouldnt have gone to to dinner with the dudesquote:Mr Abbott hosted a farewell dinner for Mr Brady and Mr Stephens when the couple left Canberra to take up the Paris job.
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May 5, 2015 15:06
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He is a typical conservative. loving hates faggots, browns and basically anything other than themselves. Unless you're a friend, then you're ok. It's just the others that are hosed.
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May 5, 2015 15:42
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Negligent posted:imo its more likely toned abs handlers were afraid of a photo of their guy with a samesex couple than any actual homophobia on his part Ah yes, the far better situation in which instead of discriminating against a same-sex couple due to personally finding homosexuality repulsive, he discriminates against a same-sex couple due to pandering to the views of other people who find homosexuality repulsive. Wait, how is that better?
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May 5, 2015 15:54
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in the same way that the Greens PR advisors tell them their grassroots supporters more out-there views are hurting electability.
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May 5, 2015 15:58
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go to literally any Greens branch meeting and start a sentence with "the party seems to have lost its way on"
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May 5, 2015 16:03
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The majority of Greens in federal parliament are just lawyers and party hacks, in fact lawyers make up the exact same proportion as the Liberal Party.
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May 5, 2015 16:10
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Negligent posted:Please pay attention to me.
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May 5, 2015 16:22
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Better do the thing he wants you to do then
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May 5, 2015 18:46
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Jonah Galtberg posted:Better do the thing he wants you to do then You can only ignore the squealing brat in the room for so long before you have to tell him to shut up.
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May 5, 2015 22:21
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May 5, 2015 23:21
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Starshark posted:You can only ignore the squealing brat in the room for so long before you have to tell him to shut up. Okay -- all you screaming brats who aren't on ignore for being GC or Negligent: please shut up about GC or Negligent.
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May 5, 2015 23:23
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I might be a bit late for HECS chat, but - is it really that outrageous a notion that we make people pay back their student loans? I know Tone's generation got free education, but the only thing that really bothers me about that is that they've not only pulled up the rope but have then attacked my generation for being "entitled." I'm not much of an economist, and I consider myself a lefty, but on a fundamental level I don't have an issue with the state providing kids with an interest-free loan which they only have to pay back once they start earning a certain amount. My own experience with HECS kicked in for the first time in the financial year before last, when I earned 55 grand before tax and the result of that was that I didn't get any tax back, and owed the ATO $200, because of my HECS debt. I grumbled about it, but was well aware that it was more than fair. $200 over the course of a year is gently caress all, and I was living a pretty good life. If I wasn't earning that much, I wouldn't be paying the HECS. The state (the people) provided me with an education, and if said education manages to net me an entry-level job where I earn 55 grand a year, I think it's eminently fair and reasonable for me to pay the state (the people) back. Isn't it?
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May 6, 2015 00:18
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freebooter posted:I might be a bit late for HECS chat, but - is it really that outrageous a notion that we make people pay back their student loans? I know Tone's generation got free education, but the only thing that really bothers me about that is that they've not only pulled up the rope but have then attacked my generation for being "entitled." Here is a radical idea. How about instead of letting people get rich digging up and literally selling chunks of Australia for private profit we use the money gained from the literal removal of our country go into a fund to ensure that we can provide education for the Australian people at no cost to them. This means we don't have to chase up student loans.
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May 6, 2015 00:27
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freebooter posted:I might be a bit late for HECS chat, but - is it really that outrageous a notion that we make people pay back their student loans? I know Tone's generation got free education, but the only thing that really bothers me about that is that they've not only pulled up the rope but have then attacked my generation for being "entitled." While a free education would be ideal, I have no issue with the HECS system as it currently works. The current debate is about getting Australians who have emigrated to pay back their loans. While ideally they would, the costs of chasing them down far outweigh the benefits of getting that debt back. I don't think anyone here is against HECS as a system, just the changes the Libs want to bring in (higher Uni costs, deregulation of Uni costs, government covers less).
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May 6, 2015 00:40
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Birb Katter posted:Here is a radical idea. How about instead of letting people get rich digging up and literally selling chunks of Australia for private profit we use the money gained from the literal removal of our country go into a fund to ensure that we can provide education for the Australian people at no cost to them. This means we don't have to chase up student loans. The country might even benefit from having more university educated people running around.
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May 6, 2015 00:49
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MysticalMachineGun posted:While a free education would be ideal, I have no issue with the HECS system as it currently works. The current debate is about getting Australians who have emigrated to pay back their loans. While ideally they would, the costs of chasing them down far outweigh the benefits of getting that debt back. I don't think anyone here is against HECS as a system, just the changes the Libs want to bring in (higher Uni costs, deregulation of Uni costs, government covers less). I am against the HECS system. Uni should be free. The economic benefits vastly outweigh having to go into debt to pay for uni, both on a personal level, and for the wider community. Less money being funnelled from the pockets of the public into institutional bank accounts means more money floating around the general economy which means more jobs, more income tax, more gst, more social mobility, and a more productive, skilled workforce.
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May 6, 2015 00:52
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Birb Katter posted:Here is a radical idea. How about instead of letting people get rich digging up and literally selling chunks of Australia for private profit we use the money gained from the literal removal of our country go into a fund to ensure that we can provide education for the Australian people at no cost to them. This means we don't have to chase up student loans. Here's an idea, instead of paying your HECS do something that's completely unrealistic instead? I probably wouldn't begrudge anyone for not paying their HECS if they live overseas, but it's nothing to be proud of.
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May 6, 2015 00:53
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QUACKTASTIC posted:The country might even benefit from having more university educated people running around.
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May 6, 2015 00:55
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Rougey posted:I am all for paying more taxes if it goes towards education and I get to live in a country with less dumb cunts. Most of the liberal poloticians went to uni.
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May 6, 2015 01:01
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KennyTheFish posted:Most of the liberal poloticians went to uni.
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May 6, 2015 01:04
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I find free education to be a much better idea, but don't have anything against HECS as a very good compromise... IF they don't start lowering the thresholds so even grads who fall through the cracks into perpetual underemployment have to pay back too. And if they don't just deregulate the hell out of fees and think the threshold scheme means they can pretend the amount of debt doesn't even matter as a deterrent to poorer people. So while I agree on a surface level with Pyne's quip about rich bankers in New York paying back their HECS, yeah that would be great, but I don't have any faith that's how it's actually going to work out if this government had its way.
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May 6, 2015 01:18
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Italian navy chief sceptical of Australian asylum seeker solution to Mediterranean migrant crisis An Italian navy chief has said he is sceptical about suggestions Europe should adopt Australia's policy of turning back migrant boats to end the current crisis in the Mediterranean. A surge in both the numbers of migrants reaching Europe from north Africa and deaths at sea led to calls for the European Union to consider a similar approach, with the aim of deterring people from contemplating the journey in the first place. Last month Prime Minister Tony Abbott called on European leaders to stop the "terrible problem". "The only way you can stop the deaths is to stop the people-smuggling trade. The only way you can stop the deaths is in fact to stop the boats," he said. "That's why it is so urgent that the countries of Europe adopt very strong policies that will end the people smuggling trade across the Mediterranean." But Admiral Donato Marzano, who will host a seminar of navy supremos from 26 European countries on Friday, said it would not be morally or practically feasible to start escorting barely seaworthy migrant boats back to conflict-wracked Libya. "There are several countries that apply a policy of expulsion, even by force of arms, others apply the international right to rescue," he said when asked if Italy could learn from Australia's experience. "I am a sailor who has spent 20 years on boats. If I find a boat adrift, I'm sorry, but I don't turn away. "I intervene to help people at sea. I don't know if this reflects my Italian culture but I do know it is international law. "A vessel in difficulty, whether it is a boat full of migrants or a merchant ship, has to be assisted." Australia has advised the EU to follow its lead and Mr Abbott said this week that his officials were in touch with their European counterparts on the issue. EU officials in Brussels have denied any such contact, suggesting there is little appetite for a move that would inevitably cause an outcry from rights groups. Some right-wing leaders, including France's Marine Le Pen, backed the Australian model as a solution to migratory pressures which have resulted in about 5,000 people drowning in waters between Libya and Italy since the start of 2014. 'Australian experience one that can be discussed' Mr Marzano said navy chiefs would do what their political masters asked them, but said he did not detect any enthusiasm for moving away from search-and-rescue operations aimed at minimising the loss of life while trying to find other ways of stemming the migrant flows. "If there is a political decision to do other activities like expulsions, then we will have to find the appropriate solution for the situation but at this moment that doesn't seem to me to be the situation," he said. Friday's talks on the security environment off Europe's southern coasts are expected to be dominated by the issue of illegal immigration, but will also touch on questions of the movement of terrorists and piracy. "Australia is not involved in these discussions but obviously it is involved in other international forums and the Australian experience is one that can be discussed and compared," Mr Marzano said. "But the problem of clandestine immigration is so incredibly complex, I don't think any magic formula exists — otherwise we would already have found it. "We have a crisis situation that has many different aspects and which from a European perspective is without precedent. "There are so many people fleeing war, so many people fleeing not only in search of work but also to save their lives. "There are so many different aspects to the problem I don't think anyone has a magic solution, be they Australian, Italian, European or French. "All we can do is share our experiences and try to resolve a problem which is getting ever more urgent." http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-06/italy-navy-chief-sceptical-australian-solution-to-migrant-issue/6447708
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May 6, 2015 01:24
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The funniest thing about HELP is that the people most likely to use a lot of it (postgrads) are also the least likely to stay in the country afterwards by virtue of there being very few research jobs in Australia. Brain drain occurs for a reason, lads, and it's not "taxes are too high".
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May 6, 2015 01:25
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Fact check: Did abolishing negative gearing push up rents?
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May 6, 2015 01:26
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QUACKTASTIC posted:"I am a sailor who has spent 20 years on boats. If I find a boat adrift, I'm sorry, but I don't turn away.  I wonder how the more seasoned members of our Navy feel about the current policy. E: Shouldn't that be "would"? E again: whoops, read it, never mind.
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May 6, 2015 01:29
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freebooter posted:I might be a bit late for HECS chat, but - is it really that outrageous a notion that we make people pay back their student loans? I know Tone's generation got free education, but the only thing that really bothers me about that is that they've not only pulled up the rope but have then attacked my generation for being "entitled." The kids going through uni now how are facing loan debts objectively 2-4 times higher than what I did have every right to feel dudded. I don't even know what people mean when they use 'entitled' as a perjorative, but if it's pointing out that you got a shittier deal than the people who went before you then it can't be a bad thing.
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May 6, 2015 01:32
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Milne steps down as leader of the Greens
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May 6, 2015 01:37
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MysticalMachineGun posted:
There was a pretty good article a few months ago about sailors suffering PTSD after having to haul in dozens of drowned families and being told to not intervene when boats appear to be in trouble.
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May 6, 2015 01:37
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Brisgoons, where are we meeting this month?
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May 6, 2015 01:38
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