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Popular Thug Drink posted:You have so fair failed, in your duty to me, to provide a rational argument as to the arbitrary imposition of age limitations on so called "child" labor. Why do you want to punish the most productive preadolescents in our society? Why do you want to reward the low-skill nonpubescent? It is immoral to prevent child labor in the Congo. You can't make an omelet without cracking a few small skulls.
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May 5, 2015 18:14
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I could be providing jobs in the mining sector right now if not for the perfidious federal child labor regulations and minimum wage laws
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May 5, 2015 18:16
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archangelwar posted:It is immoral to prevent child labor in the Congo. You can't make an omelet without cracking a few small
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May 5, 2015 18:17
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euphronius posted:If you went to the lawless frontiers, like the deep ocean, or Amazon or the deep sahara, you would find wild businesses competing in nature without the inefficient hand of government interfering. It's funny that Seattle has the highest minimum wage in the country ( $10, now $12, going to $15 soon ), and we also have one of the lowest rates of unemployment among large cities. We even push away larger companies like Walmart, Mcdonalds, or Taco Bell in favor of granting space to smaller mom and pop style stores, yet they have no problems hiring and keeping workers with such "drastic" forced minimum wages. Hell, we even force tip related business like restaurants/cafes to pay their workers full minimum wage alongside the tips they receive, so tipped workers ( like me! ) that live in Seattle can generally make $18-$25 an hour counting in tips. Somehow we have more restaurants and cafes that are running smoothly then most major cities. Which is odd, when you consider that most states give restaurants full authority to only match tipped workers up to minimum wage, giving them hundreds of dollars more per month they don't have to pay their employees, because "running restaurants is hard." Odd that we've had such luck with these initiatives. I saw some graphs earlier in this thread stating Seattle should be on fire thanks to the massive amounts of unemployment/homelessness we'd have with such a high minimum wage.
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May 5, 2015 18:17
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Popular Thug Drink posted:You have so fair failed, in your duty to me, to provide a rational argument as to the arbitrary imposition of age limitations on so called "child" labor. Why do you want to punish the most productive preadolescents in our society? Why do you want to reward the low-skill nonpubescent? You obviously haven't read the Libertarian thread: asdf32 is pro-child-labor and thinks laws banning it are immoral. Interestingly, laws businesses don't like are, in his view, immoral. But when it comes to laws that help poor people, well get your morality out of here, this is economics!
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May 5, 2015 18:19
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a libertarian should not be pro child labor as children lack the capacity to contract.
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May 5, 2015 18:20
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euphronius posted:a libertarian should not be pro child labor as children lack the capacity to contract. Parents have the capacity to contract though, and it's their right to dispose of their tiny nimble-fingered property as they see fit.
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May 5, 2015 18:22
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What's a few hundred scalped children in the face of cheap socks?
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May 5, 2015 18:23
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How does the free market determine when a child is old enough to sign their own contracts or have their parents sell them into slave labor?
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May 5, 2015 18:37
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Obviously the social stigma surrounding the labor of excessively young children would cause people to turn to their competitors.  Only companies that employ children above the age of 8 or so would be able to compete!
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May 5, 2015 18:55
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Radish posted:How does the free market determine when a child is old enough to sign their own contracts or have their parents sell them into slave labor? The size of their hands. Small hands make excellent nails.
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May 5, 2015 18:58
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Wow this thread went to absolute poo poo fast.
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May 5, 2015 19:17
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The thread was started by a GBS shitposterLeoMarr posted:The left is currently trying to attack big corporations again. Their ammunition this time? The mass layoffs that will occur when minimum wage is increased to $15. Big business and small business will suffer, and guess who's to blame? BIG OL' GUBMENT for allowing for-profit companies. So now wages must be maintained and jobs must stay so what do we do? Start phasing out public corporation and start phasing in Federally owned enterprises on a large scale.
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May 5, 2015 19:21
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LeoMarr posted:Start phasing out public corporation and start phasing in Federally owned enterprises on a large scale.  WE COULD HAVE STOPPED THIS
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May 5, 2015 19:27
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icantfindaname posted:The thread was started by a GBS shitposter D&D ruins everything. =(
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May 5, 2015 19:40
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Ocrassus posted:The economy is meant to serve as a method of distributing resources. Private property itself is predicated on a utilitarian argument, even the ones grounded in natural law (Locke, Grotius etc). Therefore businesses exist solely for the good of the society that they inhabit. Is this exactly true? I thought Locke believed in a natural right to property via self-ownership and that a right to property was socially beneficial, not that it was a natural right because it was beneficial.
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May 5, 2015 20:48
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wateroverfire posted:D&D ruins everything. =( every single post you make is garbage
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May 5, 2015 20:58
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i love pinochet so much i wish pinochet-sempai would notice me. i make him bento and support fascist paramilitaries and march in demonstrations demanding the return of military rule and everything icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 21:13
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joeburz posted:every single post you make is garbage yeah i'm pretty sure he only posts here because he gets off on being dogpiled by and talking down to leftists
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May 5, 2015 21:13
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Time to read Zinn posted:Is this exactly true? I thought Locke believed in a natural right to property via self-ownership and that a right to property was socially beneficial, not that it was a natural right because it was beneficial. quote:for this labour being the unquestionable property of the labourer, no man but he can have a right to what that is once joined to, at least where there is enough, and as good, left in common for others. quote:It will perhaps be objected to this, that if gathering the acorns, or other fruits of the earth, &c. makes a right to them, then any one may ingross as much as he will. To which I answer, Not so. The same law of nature, that does by this means give us property, does also bound that property too. God has given us all things richly, 1 Tim. vi. 12. is the voice of reason confirmed by inspiration. But how far has he given it us? To enjoy. As much as any one can make use of to any advantage of life before it spoils, so much he may by his Tabour fix a property in: whatever is beyond this, is more than his share, and belongs to others.
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May 5, 2015 21:18
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Time to read Zinn posted:Is this exactly true? I thought Locke believed in a natural right to property via self-ownership and that a right to property was socially beneficial, not that it was a natural right because it was beneficial. Lockean proviso. Yes we make something our own through labour, but if not enough is left in common to do that, then this right is effectively meaningless.
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May 5, 2015 21:28
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I wonder when the likes of Massachusetts or Maine will get such high minimum wages...
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May 5, 2015 23:22
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 OP, may angels carry you to your rest
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May 6, 2015 01:59
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VitalSigns posted:Because it's more practical to get the money to pay for these things from people who have the money, instead of people who don't Great reason to support almost every welfare policy except minimum wage. Pizza show owners and Wal-Mart customers are not exactly prime examples of the haves. Popular Thug Drink posted:People have already made this reasonable argument - a living wage is better for society as a whole. You rejected this argument with blather about useless people and your opinion about the responsibility of private business. Nobody has an obligation to jump through your weirdo rhetorical hoops. It's pretty amusing/sad that you think delineating your opinion is a rhetorical game. Practical arguments on behalf of a living wage are completely different than the "cost" argument you were trying earlier.
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May 6, 2015 04:35
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asdf32 posted:Great reason to support almost every welfare policy except minimum wage. Pizza show owners and Wal-Mart customers are not exactly prime examples of the haves. Fortunately, labor costs scale with number of employees, so Wal-Mart will be paying more than a Mom& Pop pizza parlor (assuming Mom & Pop even do enough business to qualify as a covered business under the FLSA). And Wal-Mart customers that have minimum wage jobs benefit from the minimum wage. And the concern troll "but what if some of the cost is passed onto the poor customers" applies to all labor laws of any type, it's not a good reason to oppose labor laws.
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May 6, 2015 07:57
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It doesn't matter if costs are passed on. Minimum wage labor cost don't not account for the full price of a product and the amount of money in circulation is finite.
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May 6, 2015 10:09
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So let's be clear that minimum wage can be expected to transfer some wealth but it does it really poorly. Significant chunks of the additional wages come from middle and lower class owners/consumers, not rich people.
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May 6, 2015 14:52
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Confiscating the estate of the rich and distributing the proceeds to the poor would be a more optimal solution, yes.
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May 6, 2015 14:58
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euphronius posted:Confiscating the estate of the rich and distributing the proceeds to the poor would be a more optimal solution, yes. If your goal is economic and social collapse, sure.
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May 6, 2015 14:59
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wateroverfire posted:If your goal is economic and social collapse, sure. I dont follow.
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May 6, 2015 15:00
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asdf32 posted:So let's be clear that minimum wage can be expected to transfer some wealth but it does it really poorly. Significant chunks of the additional wages come from middle and lower class owners/consumers, not rich people. When the minimum wage was higher, wealth inequality was lower. That's not solid evidence, but since the correlation is the opposite of what you're suggesting, you should probably substantiate it with...something that's not pulled straight from your rear end.
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May 6, 2015 15:02
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euphronius posted:I dont follow. Of course you don't. Think about how you'd have to go about doing that. You'd literally be better off printing stacks of cash and giving it to poor people under the flimsiest of excuses than trying to expropriate the owners of existing wealth.
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May 6, 2015 15:02
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If you take the rich's money they fly to their moon base and take all their jobs with them. The people left behind don't know how to exchange their labor for money or goods and thus will eventually starve to death.
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May 6, 2015 15:03
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wateroverfire posted:Of course you don't. Think about how you'd have to go about doing that. I think it would be good policy and a warning to all: Don't get super rich you fucker or we take it all.
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May 6, 2015 15:05
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Radish posted:If you take the rich's money they fly to their moon base and take all their jobs with them. The people left behind don't know how to exchange their labor for money or goods and thus will eventually starve to death. Tell me all about how you'll know how to run your company better than your bosses after you and your shift mates seize control during the revolution. Did you masturbate while you did that? I bet you did. I'm sure you have many good ideas about how to run a utopian collectivist economy.
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May 6, 2015 15:09
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Radish posted:If you take the rich's money they fly to their moon base and take all their jobs with them. The people left behind don't know how to exchange their labor for money or goods and thus will eventually starve to death. The burden of actually having to pay (ugh) wages to the poor for their labor is what's holding the titans of the earth back from inventing miracle metals, cloaking devices, and perpetual motion machines anyway. 
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May 6, 2015 15:10
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wateroverfire posted:If your goal is economic and social collapse, sure. lol
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May 6, 2015 15:10
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wateroverfire posted:Tell me all about how you'll know how to run your company better than your bosses after you and your shift mates seize control during the revolution. Why would the bosses go anywhere. They will still want money so they will still work their jobs even if they don't get to keep as much. People still wanted to be CEO under Marxist Kenyan Muslim Commie Eisenhower and his America-crumbling 90% tax rate.
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May 6, 2015 15:11
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VitalSigns posted:The burden of actually having to pay (ugh) wages to the poor for their labor is what's holding the titans of the earth back from inventing miracle metals, cloaking devices, and perpetual motion machines anyway. You mean paying people is what's holding them back? Oh man have I got great news about something you'll never guess has been going on for literally centuries.
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May 6, 2015 15:12
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VitalSigns posted:Why would the bosses go anywhere. They will still want money so they will still work their jobs even if they don't get to keep as much. People still wanted to be CEO under Marxist Kenyan Muslim Commie Eisenhower and his America-crumbling 90% tax rate. Excuse me no REAL leftist would claim a tax hike is a revolution.  Besides, LOL that 50's taxcode had loopholes on its loopholes. Those were the days... 
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May 6, 2015 15:15
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