|
The renegade drow Drizzt Do’Urden is sent to investigate but it will be up to you to aid in his fight against the demons before he succumbs to his darker temptations.
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 16:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 01:49 |
|
|
To that person who was asking why they don't release new players handbooks and *Power books?quote:Dungeons & Dragons fans will have more options than ever to enjoy the Rage of Demons storyline. The themes of treachery and discord in the Underdark are in Sword Coast Legends, the new CRPG (computer role-playing game) coming this fall on PC from n-Space and Digital Extremes. The epic campaign that drives Sword Coast Legends' story forces players deep into the Underdark and continues well after launch with legendary adventurer Drizzt Do'Urden. They've gone full 90s and are creating a coherent metaplot across no less than four mediums. If all of this poo poo works out, they won't have to. I really hope this poo poo doesn't work out. Also I'm still completely gobsmacked that they haven't changed any of Neverwinter's stuff around, particularly the fact that it still has AEDs as it's core backbone, and the Great Weapon fighter can pull off some absolutely insane poo poo like summoning ghostly duplicates of himself to attack distant enemies, or leaping into orbit for half a minute before landing like a meteor.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
The whole intermedium tie-in thing is very in vogue right now because of Marvel's success with the Avengers. Marvel/Disney can do it because they're super tech and merchandising savvy. I'm skeptical of WotC being able to handle it given their previous track record with these sorts of things.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 16:57
|
|
|
hyphz posted:There were problems with this, though. At least three quite big problems: auto-EWD (where no matter what character you have, your strategy is always 'use Encounters, use At-Wills, use Dailies if it's tough'), weird mapping of rules to situations (why can a fighter do a given sword move only once a day? Yes, ok, that's getting close to the pushups argument, but still) and weak rulesfeel. This isn't a problem with the fact that all characters played the game through this framework - rather, these are flaws in the framework itself. Also the rules to situations mapping is spurious and can be explained away even more easily than spells can. I don't even know what you're talking about in regard to 'rulesfeel' (what even is that?).
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 16:59
|
|
|
I can't wait to play a PC game where I roleplay carrying Drizzt's loot for him.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:01
|
|
|
AlphaDog posted:It's actually pretty hard - or at least I found it hard - to create an interesting Fighter archetype that fits into the existing archetype framework. I was mostly being facetious, but you're right, if you're going to actually make it fit within the framework of archetypes, you might be able to do something like: Level 3: Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority Level 7: Iconic Encounter/Daily Power, such as Come and Get it Level 10: Paragon Path feature, such as Knight Protector Level 15: Iconic Encounter/Daily Power, such as the choice* between Anvil of Doom, Chains of Sorrow, Giant's Wake, Silverstep, Storm of Blows, and Talon of the Roc Level 18: Epic Destiny feature, such as Eternal Defender Which still leaves you normal-attacking a bunch of the time, unless you do a Battlemaster-esque revamp. * Actually, rather than letting the Fighter choose between one of these, I'd compress it into a single ability whose effect changes depending on what weapon you're wielding. hyphz posted:There were problems with this, though. At least three quite big problems: auto-EWD (where no matter what character you have, your strategy is always 'use Encounters, use At-Wills, use Dailies if it's tough'), weird mapping of rules to situations (why can a fighter do a given sword move only once a day? Yes, ok, that's getting close to the pushups argument, but still) and weak rulesfeel. The early D&Ds had much stronger rulesfeel than even 2e; fighter players added big bonuses, rogue players rolled percentile, wizard players pored over the spell lists in the book. I think this starts getting into the question of "what is the focus of the game?", because it's rather insane to try build a system that can model literally everything, and things like "why can the Fighter swing his sword this way only once per day?" is part of accepting a certain level of abstraction with regards to what the game wants to model well. It's essentially the same as a wargamer questioning the validity of a Soviet infantry unit being able to blow up a Tiger tank detachment under certain terrain rules and die rolls even if "realistically" the Soviets wouldn't have anything better than hand grenades as anti-tank weapons: you can keep going down that hole, but it just goes on loving forever, and at some point you have to accept that you're either modelling tactical combat at a per-vehicle level, or operational maneuvers at a regiment/division level, but you can't have it both ways. Yes, the Fighter only being able to tap into his Daily power once has some incongruities, but you can either have a mechanically tight tactical combat game or a more general fantasy adventuring game with more free-form combat, but you can't have both. This further dovetails into the issue of D&D being the 300-pound gorilla of the hobby that attempts to satisfy everyone without ever acknowledging its target sub-genre.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:04
|
|
|
IT BEGINS posted:I don't even know what you're talking about in regard to 'rulesfeel' (what even is that?). Sounded like it's when you make your players roll dice even though those dice aren't going to do anything, because otherwise your players will come adrift from the game due to sheer lack of having recently rolled dice.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:14
|
|
|
hyphz posted:auto-EWD (where no matter what character you have, your strategy is always 'use Encounters, use At-Wills, use Dailies if it's tough') I've only ever experienced this with certain strikers, so I'm curious what a typical Wizard, Fighter, or Cleric 'rotation' would look like.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:19
|
|
|
I also think the "always use your encounters, then at-wills, and then maybe dailies" thing is a bit exaggerated IME, and it can be alleviated by smart construction of powers so they have different levels of situational usefulness. Some powers are better used right away so you can take advantage of a buff they offer, some are better saved until you need them; some are meant to be used in a crowded battlefield, some are better for focusing on a single target.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:20
|
|
|
Generic Octopus posted:I've only ever experienced this with certain strikers, so I'm curious what a typical Wizard, Fighter, or Cleric 'rotation' would look like. Even if this does happen for all classes, it's still a hugely better situation that 5E's "Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/etc." or "Choose from list of 15 spells/Choose from list of 14 spells/etc."
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:23
|
|
|
IT BEGINS posted:Even if this does happen for all classes, it's still a hugely better situation that 5E's "Attack/Attack/Attack/Attack/etc." or "Choose from list of 15 spells/Choose from list of 14 spells/etc." As a sun cleric it's basically "Does this situation warrant using fireball, scorching ray, or I will occasionally do a healing word/sacred flame combo platter to give someone back a round of actions but combat triage in 5e is even more pointless than it was in 3.5.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 17:36
|
|
|
Rosalind posted:The whole intermedium tie-in thing is very in vogue right now because of Marvel's success with the Avengers. Marvel/Disney can do it because they're super tech and merchandising savvy. I'm skeptical of WotC being able to handle it given their previous track record with these sorts of things. It was also key to D&D's second big market explosion with the original Dragonlance modules, novels, and comics.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 19:35
|
|
|
I mean even if you assume every class throws out all their encounters immediately - which isn't always true - that still means the only difference between a 5e class and a 4e class is that the 4e class does something cool before resorting to basic attacks.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 21:42
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:To that person who was asking why they don't release new players handbooks and *Power books? The amount of sheer bile I'm seeing at even having to acknowledge Drizzt exists across the internet is both hilarious and sad. ProfessorCirno fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 22:13
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I mean even if you assume every class throws out all their encounters immediately - which isn't always true - that still means the only difference between a 5e class and a 4e class is that the 4e class does something cool before resorting to basic attacks. At least those Basic Attacks can have some degree of depth to them depending on which At-Wills you took, what weapon type and properties you are using, what feats you have acquired, and etc. For some classes that defines an entire build; how they charge or push and all of the other conditionals that get piled on to make it work. Suddenly you're pushing and proning assholes all over the place and keeping them on lockdown, pulling them into AOEs or traps or terrain for a tactical advantage, and etc etc etc. What does 5e have to offer, besides ghetto Power Attacking and *maybe* rerolls? oh and of course completely skewing the game math with Advantage. Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 22:34 on May 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 22:32
|
|
|
I don't know about you guys, but when I had to choose between Cleave and Tide of Iron in 4e I was paralysed with indecision - it took me ten minutes to choose between them. Thank goodness they finally made an edition of D&D to free me from such difficult decisions.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
All I am here to post is that I think the Adventure will probably be good and that the Cover looks sweet as hell.  That is a great looking Demogorgon. MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
That looks better than the baboon motherfucker that killed me repeatedly in Watchers Keep
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 23:05
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:The amount of sheer bile I'm seeing at even having to acknowledge Drizzt exists across the internet is both hilarious and sad. Well he has to do something to escape the tedium of sitting around Neverwinter handing out quests. Seriously, Drizzt was an inevitability at this point. Particularly after the hoops they jumped through to bring Mystra back. Is Drizzt literally immortal now? Even accounting for him being a Drow it's been a couple hundred years in world since 3.5e.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 23:22
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Well he has to do something to escape the tedium of sitting around Neverwinter handing out quests. Elves live for a long time he is not immortal, he is 194 years old which is honestly not very old for an elf. Anyway according to Chris Perkins, Drizzt role in the story depends on the medium. He apparently has a small role or none at all in the Adventure as it focuses on the PC's MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 23:38 on May 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 23:27
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:It was also key to D&D's second big market explosion with the original Dragonlance modules, novels, and comics. I can buy this as a marketing strategy. I should have payed closer attention to Mearl's "Nobody gives a poo poo about the game, this is a media empire" article.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
DalaranJ posted:I can buy this as a marketing strategy. I should have payed closer attention to Mearl's "Nobody gives a poo poo about the game, this is a media empire" article. I think it was a different guy who wrote that.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2015 23:38
|
|
|
MonsterEnvy posted:I think it was a different guy who wrote that. Likely since Mearls is delusional. But I can't be arsed to look for it since they nuked their search database.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 00:19
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Well he has to do something to escape the tedium of sitting around Neverwinter handing out quests. He was pretty young at the start of The Crystal Shard and the timeline has advanced about 125 years since then.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 00:54
|
|
|
Strength of Many posted:Unfortunately Rage and Reckless Assault require an attack that uses Strength. drat. The Advantage from Reckless Attack basically patches the whopping +2 to hit you'd be missing from 16 STR.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 01:01
|
|
|
Rosalind posted:The whole intermedium tie-in thing is very in vogue right now because of Marvel's success with the Avengers. Marvel/Disney can do it because they're super tech and merchandising savvy. I'm skeptical of WotC being able to handle it given their previous track record with these sorts of things. Yeah, something about trying to push a transmedia brand while being incapable of delivering a functional character builder within a year of release doesn't instil confidence.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 01:36
|
|
|
PeterWeller posted:He was pretty young at the start of The Crystal Shard and the timeline has advanced about 125 years since then. Fun note for those whinging about Drizzt - pretty sure The Crystal Shard was written in the like mid-80's, so they've had a good 30 years to stew in their dumb grograge.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
Payndz posted:I'm working on a new version of my 'clone (or was until my son was born, which kinda changed my priorities!) where casters have to make an INT check when sending an AOE spell into melee - if they succeed they only hit enemies, and if they blow it they hit everyone. Some AOEs affect everyone in melee no matter what, so if you're calling in an airstrike you want your people to pull out beforehand. This is a terrible idea. It punishes the melee allies, not the caster. And the melee allies are already the ones getting beaten on, while the caster is more than likely out of harm's reach of everything except maybe a few archers.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 03:43
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Fun note for those whinging about Drizzt - pretty sure The Crystal Shard was written in the like mid-80's, so they've had a good 30 years to stew in their dumb grograge. I think the worst part of Drizz't is the character and his books are not as awful as everyone makes him out to be, and neither is his author. The amount of vitriol both receive even to this day is amazing.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 03:47
|
|
|
Strength of Many posted:I think the worst part of Drizz't is the character and his books are not as awful as everyone makes him out to be, and neither is his author. The amount of vitriol both receive even to this day is amazing. Actual legit story: One time I chatted with a guy at a bus stop and I noticed he had a Drizz't tattoo on his forearm, and apparently I was like the only motherfucker in the world who had ever identified it right off the bat. From what he said the Drizz't books had pulled him out of a bad spot in his life and kept him from falling into even worse poo poo. He'd never played a single session of D&D in his life either, so his entire frame of reference to Drizz't is from the novels and not some manchild throwing a fit on a blogspot. Dumb nerds like to rant and rave about the books being bad and the author being a hack but outside of their whiny little circle they sell pretty drat well to the masses who only tangentially heard about D&D, and have even gotten real celebrities to do audio books for it, so a lot of the nerd rage is probably linked to it being popular and as we all know, popular stuff is bad.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 04:20
|
|
|
Slimnoid posted:Actual legit story: One time I chatted with a guy at a bus stop and I noticed he had a Drizz't tattoo on his forearm, and apparently I was like the only motherfucker in the world who had ever identified it right off the bat. From what he said the Drizz't books had pulled him out of a bad spot in his life and kept him from falling into even worse poo poo. He'd never played a single session of D&D in his life either, so his entire frame of reference to Drizz't is from the novels and not some manchild throwing a fit on a blogspot. That would be my first guess for it, yeah. He is a very popular character from a very popular and successful series of books that inspired a generation of nerds and readers. Even today I have met my share of people who seethe at the idea of a player character being a Drow, especially if they're not 'Evil'. Now, on the other hand, Elminster? His hate is wholly justified. gently caress Elminster.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 04:28
|
|
|
Strength of Many posted:gently caress Elminster.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 04:30
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Fun note for those whinging about Drizzt - pretty sure The Crystal Shard was written in the like mid-80's, so they've had a good 30 years to stew in their dumb grograge. Pub date was 88, so yeah, grogs have been grogging about him being a special snowflake for 27 years now. Strength of Many posted:I think the worst part of Drizz't is the character and his books are not as awful as everyone makes him out to be, and neither is his author. The amount of vitriol both receive even to this day is amazing. Yeah, this is true. Salvatore is a pretty cool guy who pumps out decently written pulp adventures about a bad rear end ranger and his rad buddies.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
Strength of Many posted:That would be my first guess for it, yeah. He is a very popular character from a very popular and successful series of books that inspired a generation of nerds and readers. Even today I have met my share of people who seethe at the idea of a player character being a Drow, especially if they're not 'Evil'. Yeah, Snoop Drizzt is alright when handled well. Kill Elminster.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 04:49
|
|
|
There were a lot of reasons for Drizzt hate. On one end sure, he was the sorta angsty antihero that makes plenty of non-teenagers roll their eyes, and he started to appear drat near everywhere in FR. But at least 90% of all complaints aren't about that. He was popular. He was different. He had emotions. He changed things. He's just such an overpowered Gary Sue (now challenge them to name a character who isn't, or try bringing up Raistlinn who may as well be the bitter high school nerd personified). Like "In MY setting ALL DROW ARE EVIL" is the dumbest groggy bullshit because that wasn't even true by like the mid-80's, much less anno domini two thousand and right the gently caress now. It's pretty clearly the work of a pathetic idiot who can't stop sobbing that the way they played Greyhawk in the 70's when life was pure and they were 14 isn't the industry standard - or more pathetic, someone upset that people playing the game like different characters then they did. Oh no, Drizzt has actual angst and pathos, what a loving terrible thing to bring into our roleplaying game. Oh no Drizzt inspires characters to try to make their own "special snowflake" characters, AKA PCs THAT ARE INTERESTING. 1985 AD&D's Unearthed Arcana brought out drow and what do you know, "Drow are generally evil and chaotic in nature, though player characters are not required to be so. A dark elf player character is considered an outcast from his or her homeland deep within the earth, whether by matter of choice, alignment, or merely being on the losing side of some family-wide power struggle." Oh but that doesn't count for reasons! Literally any time someone starts complaining about playable drow or gives nearly any of the more common complaints about Drizzt you know to ignore the dumb sack of poo poo. In fact anytime someone uses "special snowflake" you know nothing of worth is going to leave their gob.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 04:53
|
|
|
Drizzt is pretty good because he is pretty much a pc. If you wanted to show someone the kind of guy you play in a game point to him.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 05:05
|
|
|
E: Yeah, that's a good point too. Drizzt and friends are a pretty great example of what mid to high level D&D characters will look like. Also, regarding Cirno's mention of Raistlin, dude is literally a PC wizard who ditches his party when he gets powerful enough to no longer need his meat shield brother. He is the embodiment of everything wrong with LFQW design. ProfessorCirno posted:There were a lot of reasons for Drizzt hate. On one end sure, he was the sorta angsty antihero that makes plenty of non-teenagers roll their eyes, and he started to appear drat near everywhere in FR. But at least 90% of all complaints aren't about that. He was popular. He was different. He had emotions. He changed things. He's just such an overpowered Gary Sue (now challenge them to name a character who isn't, or try bringing up Raistlinn who may as well be the bitter high school nerd personified). The thing is even those other complaints are mostly bullshit. There's like one book where he's all angsty and goth and that's the one about him being a teenager in Menzo. He's hardly a Mary Sue when he gets wailed on a bunch and usually wins because his awesome team shows up at the right time. The stuff about him showing up all over the place is kinda legit, but it's also just another way to complain about the character's popularity. PeterWeller fucked around with this message at 05:13 on May 7, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 05:06
|
|
|
His appearance in BG2 was actually kind of cool because he's not the big hero you're helping out or whatever, you're on the same level as he is, you're into some deep poo poo, and so he and his team agree to help you out because you're in the same business. He's not the awesome super guy coming to rescue you, he's just a guest party mate because he's a colleague. Drizzt, I mean.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 05:40
|
|
|
Yeah, it's silly that he just so happens to be in Amn when you could use his help, but otherwise, he and the companions are just one group you can recruit for the big assault.
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 05:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 01:49 |
|
|
PeterWeller posted:Also, regarding Cirno's mention of Raistlin, dude is literally a PC wizard who ditches his party when he gets powerful enough to no longer need his meat shield brother. He is the embodiment of everything wrong with LFQW design. One of the funnier things about Raistlin is his name occasionally pops up when people talk about dump stats and how you're a power gamer if your wizard dumps Strength or Charisma, wondering why those munchkins aren't more like Raistlin and put themselves through the actual dangers of playing a low-Constitution/low-health character. DL01- Dragons of Despair has the write-ups for the various protagonists and Raistlin's talks about how he wound up at the towers and passed the tests at a terrible cost to his health. His Constitution is 10. (as is his Strength and Charisma)
|
|
#
?
May 7, 2015 06:06
|
|
