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Problem is that Tommen seems fundamentally averse to exerting his will upon others in the face of any resistance at all. He's literally the Anti-Joffrey and it is a miracle that the two didn't annihilate all of Westeros from being in contact with each other.
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May 7, 2015 10:35
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Aye. Tommen thankfully has more of the compassion you'd expect in a King, but unfortunately very little of the political savvy. Enough to know how to avoid trouble, but not enough to know how to avoid trouble whilst still being able to resolve the issues in front of him. So, not starting another widespread riot by having the Kingsguard tear through the sparrows? Makes sense, but he's stuck with 'well what now?' after that. He could, perhaps, bring a larger amount of the city watch so as to properly contain things, or he could try going incognito. Alternatively, he could put the onus on the sparrows, pointing out the obligations of the High Septon to come before his people, otherwise he could be up to all the same nonsense as his predecessor. It's just that Tommen probably won't think of a less than direct route unless pointed in the right direction first, and I do suspect he's somewhat aware of it. Unfortunately, his best would-be advisors are either dead, or on the other side of the planet, leaving him with those still focusing on the game.
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May 7, 2015 11:21
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Astro Nut posted:Aye. Tommen thankfully has more of the compassion you'd expect in a King, but unfortunately very little of the political savvy. Enough to know how to avoid trouble, but not enough to know how to avoid trouble whilst still being able to resolve the issues in front of him. So, not starting another widespread riot by having the Kingsguard tear through the sparrows? Makes sense, but he's stuck with 'well what now?' after that. He could, perhaps, bring a larger amount of the city watch so as to properly contain things, or he could try going incognito. Alternatively, he could put the onus on the sparrows, pointing out the obligations of the High Septon to come before his people, otherwise he could be up to all the same nonsense as his predecessor. It's just that Tommen probably won't think of a less than direct route unless pointed in the right direction first, and I do suspect he's somewhat aware of it. Unfortunately, his best would-be advisors are either dead, or on the other side of the planet, leaving him with those still focusing on the game. Calling the High Sparrow to come out only works if he comes out. If he doesn't then and there, he loses face, all the while that the crowd will keep calling him the Abomination (in which he loses face as well). For a teen unsure of himself and with little in the way of help from trusted advisors, he can't see any options to take.
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May 7, 2015 11:46
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Tommen doesn't rule anything whatsoever. He doesn't hold court and he is basically just a guy that gets to do what he wants around the palace and bang his hot new wife. Nobody has even hinted to him about the fact that he should be more hands-on and start doing his job. Cersei is basically ruling off the fact that Tommen hasn't bothered to ask what he should be doing now that Tywinn is gone.
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May 7, 2015 12:18
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counterfeitsaint posted:This kinda makes me hope that in medieval Rome there was a whore house where the pope could go and choose between different whores that represent the father, son, and holy spirit. Two costs extra! Someone post a picture of the high septon with a shirt that says I know two cost extra like the I know guac cost extra Chipotle shirts.
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May 7, 2015 16:05
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Mister Perky posted:The "Many Faced God" is Death Thanks, this was actually a good clarification on the religious situation in Westeros.
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May 7, 2015 16:55
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to what is more or less an undersea Valhalla. Though at this point in the show you'd easily be forgiven for not knowing or caring about this one. It's only slightly less irrelevant than the horse god/Stallion That Mounts The World that Khal Drogo believed in and who Dany's baby was sorta supposed to be the incarnation/aspect of.
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Astro Nut posted:Tommen thankfully has more of the compassion you'd expect in a King, but unfortunately very little of the political savvy He should have had the gold cloaks slaughter them sparrows for refusing him access. No one is ever going to respect him now, he will live like a bitch and die like a bitch.
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May 7, 2015 18:10
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but i thought you and mother were getting along 
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May 7, 2015 18:12
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I like that this season is looking to show King's Landing crumbling under Cersei's idiot plans, and those plans alone. There's no one even discussing moving against it. It's all gonna "Tywin is gone, Tommen is young and clueless" Cersei gently caress ups. Too bad for Tommen, as being violently deposed by religious fanatics is probably not a great way to go. Too bad for Margaery too. Widowed again. Hexel posted:He should have had the gold cloaks slaughter them sparrows for refusing him access. No one is ever going to respect him now, he will live like a bitch and die like a bitch. Killing a religious leader of the predominant religion of the country is seldom a great move. Especially when your traitor uncle has been persecuting them, and at least some of your support likely comes from being seen as a defender of that faith. Plus Tommen is like, a nice kid who doesn't wanna hurt people. He gonna die 
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May 7, 2015 22:00
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I hope it aint just me but ive been enjoying reading all this discussion these past few pages
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May 7, 2015 22:20
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Bobo the Red posted:I like that this season is looking to show King's Landing crumbling under Cersei's idiot plans, and those plans alone. There's no one even discussing moving against it. It's all gonna "Tywin is gone, Tommen is young and clueless" Cersei gently caress ups. It's kind of funny how Cercei never thought she had to prepare anyone but Joffrey for ruling so she really overdid the "You must appear strong" lesson for Joff while completely neglecting that part for Tommen.
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May 7, 2015 22:32
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Why did Tommen marry Margery anyways? Is it normal in Westeros for kings to marry their dead brothers wife immediately after their death? Joffery was an unmarried king for a long time wasn't he, so obviously it's not a requirement for ruling. I mean, she's hot so I get it from that angle, but beyond that I'm lost.
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May 7, 2015 22:45
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The Duggler posted:Why did Tommen marry Margery anyways? Is it normal in Westeros for kings to marry their dead brothers wife immediately after their death? Joffery was an unmarried king for a long time wasn't he, so obviously it's not a requirement for ruling. The Lannisters and the Crown both owe the Tyrells a lot for their support from Blackwater on. They've been supplying soldiers and food to the capital.
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May 7, 2015 22:53
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The Duggler posted:Why did Tommen marry Margery anyways? Is it normal in Westeros for kings to marry their dead brothers wife immediately after their death? Joffery was an unmarried king for a long time wasn't he, so obviously it's not a requirement for ruling. The only thing keeping the country together is the alliance between the Lannisters and the Tyrells and alliances are usually formalized through marriage. It's a political marriage between the King and the daughter of the lord of the Reach and the fact that it's not the same King as it was a few months ago doesn't really matter.
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May 7, 2015 22:55
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The Duggler posted:Why did Tommen marry Margery anyways? Is it normal in Westeros for kings to marry their dead brothers wife immediately after their death? Joffery was an unmarried king for a long time wasn't he, so obviously it's not a requirement for ruling. Marriage is a means of securing alliance, and the Baratheons (Lannisters) need the Tyrells. It's not uncommon for a younger brother to step up to the plate if his older brother is suddenly killed. Ned married Catelyn, who was initially betrothed to his older brother before he was killed. In real history, Henry VIII was married to Catherine of Aragon after his older brother Arthur died in order to maintain the Anglo-Spanish alliance. In It For The Tank fucked around with this message at 23:00 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 22:56
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The Duggler posted:Why did Tommen marry Margery anyways? Is it normal in Westeros for kings to marry their dead brothers wife immediately after their death? Joffery was an unmarried king for a long time wasn't he, so obviously it's not a requirement for ruling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBXuSoeS2Q0
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May 7, 2015 22:57
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Skeesix posted:It's kind of funny how Cercei never thought she had to prepare anyone but Joffrey for ruling so she really overdid the "You must appear strong" lesson for Joff while completely neglecting that part for Tommen. This is entirely appropriate, given how often that kind of thing happened in real life. Despite it being common practice to have spare heirs, it wasn't always as common for families to actually have those heirs prepared.
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May 7, 2015 23:04
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Astro Nut posted:This is entirely appropriate, given how often that kind of thing happened in real life. Despite it being common practice to have spare heirs, it wasn't always as common for families to actually have those heirs prepared. It was not actually always a good idea to prepare them, either. You teach the second son that he needs to be strong, that he needs to be powerful and assert himself as a ruler, and then his older brother dies and he becomes king, he'll be a strong king. But if his older brother doesn't die, well, he'll start getting ideas. That's how civil wars happen.
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May 7, 2015 23:07
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Slashrat posted:Problem is that Tommen seems fundamentally averse to exerting his will upon others in the face of any resistance at all. He's literally the Anti-Joffrey and it is a miracle that the two didn't annihilate all of Westeros from being in contact with each other. You might be averse to conflict, too, if your brother was Joffrey. He's probably a worse older brother than Gregor Clegane. Tommen already said Joffrey once threatened to skin Ser Pounce, and you just *know* that wasn't the extent of it. I imagine it was hell growing up around a violently entitled child-psychopath. Even as King, Joffrey responded to any perceived slight with sadistic abuse, so picture what a ~10 year old Prince Joffrey would do to his kid brother with no audience or oversight. I assume passivity and confrontation-avoidance were Tommen's best defenses, growing up. It should come as no surprise that, as King, his default response is to try and de-escalate the situation before it gets worse.
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May 7, 2015 23:17
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cock hero flux posted:It was not actually always a good idea to prepare them, either. You teach the second son that he needs to be strong, that he needs to be powerful and assert himself as a ruler, and then his older brother dies and he becomes king, he'll be a strong king. But if his older brother doesn't die, well, he'll start getting ideas. That's how civil wars happen. Yep. Especially if the elder brother is incompetent or, otherwise seen as weak, and thus the younger sibling gets 'invited' by the nobility to take charge instead. There's a reason ambition is both so useful and potentially dangerous in CK2.
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May 7, 2015 23:24
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Interesting contrast between the humble, friendly High Sparrow and the dead-eyed crazies that follow him.
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May 8, 2015 04:57
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Dr Christmas posted:Interesting contrast between the humble, friendly High Sparrow and the dead-eyed crazies that follow him. I guarantee he will show himself the most crazy of all at some point
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May 8, 2015 05:01
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Why does Cercei want to give weapons to the people who don't like weird poo poo like incest again?
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May 8, 2015 05:08
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Dr Christmas posted:Interesting contrast between the humble, friendly High Sparrow and the dead-eyed crazies that follow him. His friendliness and humility read really put on to me. He's feels like a Tywin surrogate, intelligent and ruthless, but what Cersei didn't quite get is that Tywin put up with her poo poo because his motivation was preserving the family, and the High Sparrow don't give a gently caress about that. The crazies are quite clearly doing what he told them to do. Whether his goals are truly religious, or if they are just a different sort of personal ambition than most of the septons remains to be seen. monster on a stick posted:Why does Cercei want to give weapons to the people who don't like weird poo poo like incest again? It's legit just that she doesn't think things through. She was mad at Margaery, Margaery has a gay brother, get some gay bashers on him. Never mind that her sin is far greater, and will threaten both herself and her children. She also wants power, since she has less as dowager queen than as the queen mother when there was no queen queen, and she assumes she's cunning enough to control the Sparrows (and Margaery would have no sway with them). It's also why she's once again trying to hand pick the Small Council, which will probably ALSO gently caress things up She seems to think the part of the prophecy about being replaced by one more beautiful is the cause of the rest of it (her kids dying), when her obsession with that part is what's helping the rest of it fall into place. If Cersei had been an ally to Margaery, Olenna would have had less motivation to help kill Joffrey, and this move reads like 'RIP Tommen' Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 05:18 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 05:09
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Bobo the Red posted:It's legit just that she doesn't think things through. She was mad at Margaery, Margaery has a gay brother, get some gay bashers on him. Never mind that her sin is far greater, and will threaten both herself and her children. She also wants power, since she has less as dowager queen than as the queen mother when there was no queen queen, and she assumes she's cunning enough to control the Sparrows (and Margaery would have no sway with them). It's also why she's once again trying to hand pick the Small Council, which will probably ALSO gently caress things up Littlefinger should have hired Brienne to protect Cirsei, that would have solved a lot of problems.
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May 8, 2015 05:31
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monster on a stick posted:Littlefinger should have hired Brienne to protect Cirsei, that would have solved a lot of problems. Cersei takes a leaf out of Robert's book, makes Brienne stand guard outside her chambers while she screws Jaime and bellows,"YOU SMELL LIKE RASPBERRY JAM!  " at the top of her lungs.
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May 8, 2015 05:33
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Jerusalem posted:Cersei takes a leaf out of Robert's book, makes Brienne stand guard outside her chambers while she screws Jaime and bellows,"YOU SMELL LIKE RASPBERRY JAM! I thought everything smelled of lemon cakes?
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May 8, 2015 06:26
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Dr Christmas posted:Interesting contrast between the humble, friendly High Sparrow and the dead-eyed crazies that follow him. At the end of the day Cersei gave a Bond villain an army. It cannot end well.
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May 8, 2015 07:20
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monster on a stick posted:Why does Cercei want to give weapons to the people who don't like weird poo poo like incest again? Because she's mad at the Tyrells and sees it as a way she can get back at them and exert some influence in the capitol. Unfortunately she hasn't really put enough thought into it to realize that creating an army of radical religious nuts over which you have very little control and getting them to torture a relative of your only real remaining ally entirely because you don't like them could potentially backfire.
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May 8, 2015 07:27
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Also, Cersei assumes that the high sparrow is a naive religious pacifist who can command the fanatics (and will stop them from harming her/her children out of gratitude for naming him High Septon).
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May 8, 2015 07:40
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davey4283 posted:At the end of the day Cersei gave a Bond villain an army.  Ahem. 
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May 8, 2015 07:53
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Oh man I can't wait for Margaery to convince Tommen to make the Queen of Thorns Hand of the King
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May 8, 2015 08:48
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Ha! Touche
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May 8, 2015 08:52
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meatbag posted:Oh man I can't wait for Margaery to convince Tommen to make the Queen of Thorns Hand of the King Queen of Thorns Hand of the King 
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May 8, 2015 09:34
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With all the creative spellings of Cersei I've seen in this thread I am really surprised I still haven't seen a Circe yet.
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May 8, 2015 09:41
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Tommen named his goldfish Ser Sea
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May 8, 2015 09:54
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:Tommen named his goldfish Ser Sea No, it was Sir Say, because he kept making bubbles that looked like speech.
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May 8, 2015 11:55
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Pfft, they probably just happened to "conquer" the Riverlands at exactly the time the locals were away facing off against the Targaryans, and no one had the chance to kick them back out before the Targaryans took over everything, so for once they managed an actual conquest if only through the efforts of other people. nope, they took the riverlands 3 generations before the targaryens landed, and they built harrenhal
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May 8, 2015 12:36
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Can someone explain how Cersei "gave" the High Sparrow an army? All of those dudes running around being dicks seem like legit sparrows. Does this just mean she provided existing sparrows with weapons or did she make dudes join the cult as well?
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May 8, 2015 13:36
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UFOTofuTacoCat posted:Can someone explain how Cersei "gave" the High Sparrow an army? All of those dudes running around being dicks seem like legit sparrows. Does this just mean she provided existing sparrows with weapons or did she make dudes join the cult as well? I think the implication was "in the past, the Seven had their own army, so if you guys want to do that again, go for it." I don't think she actually gave them any men.
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May 8, 2015 13:46
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