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Murgos posted:No, it doesn't. As a blanket statement that is inaccurate.. http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA512331 quote:Operations in Afghanistan frequently require United States ground forces to engage and destroy the enemy at ranges beyond 300 meters. These operations occur in rugged terrain and in situations where traditional supporting fires are limited due to range or risk of collateral damage. With these limitations, the infantry in Afghanistan require a precise, lethal fire capability that exists only in a properly trained and equipped infantryman. While the infantryman is ideally suited for combat in Afghanistan, his current weapons, doctrine, and marksmanship training do not provide a precise, lethal fire capability to 500 meters and are therefore inappropriate. Note that this paper supports you in your claim that the MGs are the real killing power in the company, but that's because the engagements in Afghanistan are taking places at ranges where they're the only weapons the company has that can deliver effective fire at these ranges: quote:The infantryman’s ability to fix or kill the enemy with organic weapon systems at distances beyond 200 meters is limited by his equipment and training. The incapacitation mechanism of small caliber bullets, such as the 5.56-mm, comes primarily from bullet fragmentation.7 Bullet fragmentation occurs only at a sufficiently high velocity. All 5.56-mm weapons are most effective when employed within 200 meters due to velocity limitations. Once contact is made, the fight is limited to machine gunners, mortars and designated marksmen. In the table of organization for a light infantry company8 only the six –M240B 7.62-mm machineguns, two- 60-mm mortars and nine designated marksman armed with either 7.62-mm M14 rifles or accurized 5.56-mm M16A4’s rifles are able to effectively engage the enemy. These weapons systems represent 19 percent of the company’s firepower. This means that 81 percent of the company has little effect on the fight. quote:Short controlled bursts my friend. This section of the FM doesn't say what you think it does. If you are spraying rounds down range wildly you are doing it wrong and you will die. MG's are accurate and deadly weapons and when used as such are a dominant element in battle. Not disagreeing, but point targets is only part of what MGs are for: quote:Area targets as discussed in this manual have considerable width That's from FM 23-65, for the M2. It points out, among other things, that the beaten zone is always about 2 meters in width. Engagement of area targets and suppression are not the same thing as 'spraying rounds down range wildly.'
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May 7, 2015 16:29
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Are there people doing live fire runs with P47s somewhere? I've seen a video of a P40, that was pretty amazing.
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May 7, 2015 16:32
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The claim was never *wiggles MG about wildly and expect hits*, even musket fire pre minnie (so?) ball was still semi aimed in the sense of 'at that group of guys over there', and the comparison would be more accurate in a volume of fire consideration.
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May 7, 2015 16:37
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Murgos posted:If they poke their stupid heads out you kill them. You don't call out, "Hey there's guys there out in the open someone kill them! This stupid MG is only good for suppression and I can't hit a loving thing with it." Yo as a corollary to this you said quote:The killing power of a modern infantry squad is its integral MGs, (well it's radios really) not small arms. which is equally dogmatic and stupid as what you think has been said (nobody has actually claimed MGers don't try to kill people) but hey. Now, I know you really mean that the MG is one of the most effective weapons in a company (within a specific definition of effectiveness obv), but your bad faith (or just bad reading comp?) arguments are really annoying, especially when you're arguing w another veteran. (I love parentheses)
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May 7, 2015 16:44
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100 Years Ago Often it's the most well-known things that are the hardest to talk about; picking the dividing line between "comprehensive" and "brief" can be very difficult. So today we have the sinking of the Lusitania, but with an eye on some things you may not have known about the ship. Elsewhere: Kenneth Best arrives on Gallipoli in the middle of Second Krithia, the latest offensive on the Western Front is postponed a couple of days, Louis Barthas has some work to do, the situation for the Russians is merely very difficult instead of absolutely catastrophic, and the Landships Committee starts veering down a blind alley as it investigates the feasibility of articulated tracked vehicles. (Also, a staggeringly ironic advert in the paper.)
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May 7, 2015 16:51
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JaucheCharly posted:Are there people doing live fire runs with P47s somewhere? I've seen a video of a P40, that was pretty amazing. I think this is as close are you're gonna get: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niJ82YCiuYU I can't see how the FAA's gonna let someone fly around with live guns.
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May 7, 2015 16:55
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I think that Lusitania is the only conspiracy theory I'm aware of that is convincing. I feel it is time the UK told us what REALLY happened.
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May 7, 2015 17:41
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bewbies posted:I think that Lusitania is the only conspiracy theory I'm aware of that is convincing. I feel it is time the UK told us what REALLY happened. Knowing how things work over here, the actual records of what happened simply got accidentally shredded or lost during a move and nobody wants anyone to know that.
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May 7, 2015 17:49
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:...what you think has been said (nobody has actually claimed MGers don't try to kill people) but hey. blech e: two ad-hominems and a strawman or am I miscounting?
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May 7, 2015 18:00
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Who gives a poo poo. Call an A-10 and *Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr*
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May 7, 2015 18:34
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SeanBeansShako posted:Knowing how things work over here, the actual records of what happened simply got accidentally shredded or lost during a move and nobody wants anyone to know that. "Official Secrets Act mate, more than me job's worth. Pub?"
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May 7, 2015 18:45
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JaucheCharly posted:Who gives a poo poo. Call an A-10 and *Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr* I think they want less collateral damage not more.
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May 7, 2015 18:52
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MikeCrotch posted:"Official Secrets Act mate, more than me job's worth. Pub?" It is in a faded manilla brown envelope lodged firmly behind the radiator in one of the old buildings.
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May 7, 2015 18:56
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I like military fantasy books where a person or persons from the future/present is transported into the past or placed within an environment where their future weapons don't work so they train the locals in firearm tactics and poo poo. It's fun.
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May 7, 2015 19:13
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SeanBeansShako posted:It is in a faded manilla brown envelope lodged firmly behind the radiator in one of the old buildings. "on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard'." h2g2 yay
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May 7, 2015 19:14
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khy posted:I like military fantasy books where a person or persons from the future/present is transported into the past or placed within an environment where their future weapons don't work so they train the locals in firearm tactics and poo poo. In this vein people modded Silent Hunter 4 to plop a 688i boat back in the WWII pacific and playing around with that is one of the most fun video game experiences I've ever had.
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May 7, 2015 19:31
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khy posted:I like military fantasy books where a person or persons from the future/present is transported into the past or placed within an environment where their future weapons don't work so they train the locals in firearm tactics and poo poo.
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May 7, 2015 20:00
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HEY GAL posted:If their future weapons don't work, the tactics based on them might not either Shh, the author doesn't know that. It might not work if they know that.
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May 7, 2015 20:01
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I like stories where knowledge of rock music and basketball enables the protagonist to defeat knights in single combat.
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May 7, 2015 20:05
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xthetenth posted:Shh, the author doesn't know that. It might not work if they know that. *deploys unsupported skirmishers* *it takes a third of a minute to reload*  
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May 7, 2015 20:06
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HEY GAL posted:"Oh my god, these giant blocks of dudes are so unwieldy!" That actually happens at one point, albeit during a training exercise. Basically the natives going "See, we're not morons, we do this poo poo for a REASON."
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May 7, 2015 20:14
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HEY GAL posted:nobody else was on his level So, the wiki is a sack of cold poo poo. Sorry if you've been asked this before (I bet you have), but what would be a good place to go read about him?
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May 7, 2015 20:16
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Tias posted:So, the wiki is a sack of cold poo poo. Sorry if you've been asked this before (I bet you have), but what would be a good place to go read about him? basically, wallenst-owns
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May 7, 2015 20:17
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"What idiot tells his men to stand and fire in volleys? Obviously they should be laying prone and putting down targeted suppressive fire while their second platoon sweeps the objective!" *Can't be easily heard or seen after 30 seconds of combat turns the battlefield into a noisy, smoke-covered mess* *Completely loses control of his troops since they didn't have the advantage of drilling for half a year at Quantico in those tactics*
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May 7, 2015 20:18
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"Pin them down while I call in air support!.. ..ah, right. gently caress."
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May 7, 2015 20:19
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"The officers, sergeants, and corporals should not be so visible, it's dangerous!" .... "They're not listening to me, and I'm not sure they can tell where I am."
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May 7, 2015 20:21
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HEY GAL posted:Golo Mann, Wallenstein A Life Narrated or Wallenstein Sein Leben Erzählt, depending on which language you're better at/what you can find where you live "As for conducting a campaign while the corn is still green, whoever wishes to be a fool and wreck an army in a fortnight, let him do it." On Wolff von Mansfeld: "If he were as sick as he is conceited, he'd have died long ago." On Cardinal Dietrichstein, governor of Moravia: "He has proposed the recruitment of twelve thousand men. He should not be allowed to try it because he will only use them for the protection of his own properties--waste, not gain. Or let him attempt it on condition that the whoring little priest goes to Rome as ambassador, and is thereby removed from the scene." Meanwhile... "Have ten thousand pairs of boots made for the soldiers, so I can have them distributed among the regiments. They must be carefully tied together, pair by pair, so that it will be known which belong to each other."
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May 7, 2015 20:36
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Cyrano4747 posted:You should hear what people say at concentration camps. In a similar vein here's the Twitter account of a person that does a slave focused tour at an American planation. https://twitter.com/afamhistfail It goes exactly how you think it does.
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May 7, 2015 20:42
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I kinda wonder what a well-educated and smart time traveller could reasonably teach these people, really. To increase the proportion of gunners in their mix a bit earlier than was historical?
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May 7, 2015 20:45
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Fangz posted:I kinda wonder what a well-educated and smart time traveller could reasonably teach these people, really. To increase the proportion of gunners in their mix a bit earlier than was historical? Edit: Never mind, here's what you should do: actual taxes, rational administration, a draft (even though it's unethical), and a heavy focus on logistics. It needs no more technology than they have already. Basically the steps made in the 18th century or even the second half of the 17th, only in the first half of the 17th instead. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 20:46
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Fangz posted:I kinda wonder what a well-educated and smart time traveller could reasonably teach these people, really. To increase the proportion of gunners in their mix a bit earlier than was historical? Tell them to get cracking on making nitrocellulose.
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May 7, 2015 20:47
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bewbies posted:In this vein people modded Silent Hunter 4 to plop a 688i boat back in the WWII pacific and playing around with that is one of the most fun video game experiences I've ever had. I assume not having your own torpedoes not actively trying to kill you would make it more fun....
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May 7, 2015 20:51
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Fangz posted:I kinda wonder what a well-educated and smart time traveller could reasonably teach these people, really. To increase the proportion of gunners in their mix a bit earlier than was historical? Germ theory.
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May 7, 2015 20:52
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Tell them to get cracking on making nitrocellulose. Yeah, a little bit of chemistry would go a long way for them. Of course, first you'd have to convince them that fire is not the result of phlogiston leaving the object.
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May 7, 2015 20:53
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Fangz posted:I kinda wonder what a well-educated and smart time traveller could reasonably teach these people, really. To increase the proportion of gunners in their mix a bit earlier than was historical? Magic does exist and it's called calculus.
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May 7, 2015 21:21
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Tell them to get cracking on making nitrocellulose. You'd also need better metallurgy unless you want to make everything explode.
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May 7, 2015 21:23
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Depending upon the time the metric system and/or a standardized series of measurements.
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May 7, 2015 21:31
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Tomn posted:Germ theory. Yeah, was gonna post this. Also maybe a note on disease vectors and field sanitation. Or if you have a minute to plan maybe weather records.
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May 7, 2015 21:32
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mlmp08 posted:Yeah, was gonna post this. Also maybe a note on disease vectors and field sanitation. Or if you have a minute to plan maybe weather records. ambroise pare already knew back in the mid-1500s that a wound heals better if you remove the filth from it before stitching the dude up
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May 7, 2015 21:43
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Fangz posted:I kinda wonder what a well-educated and smart time traveller could reasonably teach these people, really. To increase the proportion of gunners in their mix a bit earlier than was historical? From the top of my head, assuming that you would like to, say, make sure the 30YW is won more quickly by one side: - the socket bayonet to eliminate pikemen altogether, dramatically improving performance against a mixed unit - standardized powder charges for artillery, preferably coming in some kind of waterproof combustible container so loading speed is improved and guns can be laid to a known range more easily - paper cartridges - standardized artillery in terms of calibre and gun length, meaning gun performance can be anticipated better - a semaphore system using flags for quick long range communication, another system using flares/rockets if technologically feasible - a dedicated corps of surveyors, leading to maps that are actually useful Plus, as already said, Germ Theory and a rational, efficient and effective bureaucracy. Standardized supply requisition forms would probably turn your army into an unbeatable murder machine.
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May 7, 2015 21:47
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