|
It's implied the hypothetical person is a class traitor deserving of an ad hoc trial followed by execution, otherwise he would just consult his union on how to move forward. Because demanding a raise is anathema.
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:51 |
|
|
Cole posted:alright, then what should we do for the guy who has been working for almost a decade and is now getting paid what you wish minimum wage to be, and then minimum wage gets raised to that? pay him more Cole posted:regardless if your argument is "he won't be making less money!" it's a really lovely and demoralizing feeling to go from minimum wage, work nine years, and then you're back to minimum wage. it's even more lovely and demoralizing to work for nine years in a job that vlaues you so little that they barely pay you more than the legal minimum i dunno, i guess for me, personally, i would prefer to blame the party trying to pay me less rather than the party trying to pay me more when considering why my pay is so low
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:22
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Have you considered Getting paid what you are worth has nothing to do with self esteem. It has a lot to do with getting paid what you are worth. There are jobs out there that are not worth $15/hour. Popular Thug Drink posted:pay him more this will lead to raising the wages of everyone, which, for a lot of companies (particularly small businesses) isn't feasible.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:23
|
|
|
If this hypothetical person practiced better time preference, he would already earn more than a possible min wage increase. Therefore this person is lazy and why do you want to protect lazy people?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:24
|
|
|
How dare the nanny government intervene! I worked my rear end off to get treated like human garbage, and I LIKE it that way!!! blue collar workers finding masochistic pleasure in being taken advantage of never ceases to amaze me. it was really eye opening at age sixteen when i started working in a nursing home and the CNAs all to a woman took pride in working harder than the nurses for less money
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:24
|
|
Cole posted:Getting paid what you are worth has nothing to do with self esteem. It has a lot to do with getting paid what you are worth. There are jobs out there that are not worth $15/hour. No there aren't. Good. Small businesses are incredibly inefficient in economic terms.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:25
|
|
|
Cole posted:this will lead to raising the wages of everyone, which, for a lot of companies (particularly small businesses) isn't feasible. it is feasible, actually logically, wouldn't it be better then if we mandated wage maximums? please think about the implications of this for a minute, thanks and god bless
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:25
|
|
|
Dehumanize yourself and face to the market.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:26
|
|
|
Cole posted:Getting paid what you are worth has nothing to do with self esteem. It has a lot to do with getting paid what you are worth. There are jobs out there that are not worth $15/hour. Companies will make more money because they will have more clients able to afford their goods. That plus the RECORD profits companies have been posting lately is more than enough to offset the cost.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:26
|
|
|
Cole posted:Getting paid what you are worth has nothing to do with self esteem. It has a lot to do with getting paid what you are worth. There are jobs out there that are not worth $15/hour. well theyre gonna be worth $15/hr in a little bit so i think that may be a fairly arbitrary distinction!
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:27
|
|
|
theres not like some arbitrary Value Quanta that float around in particular businesses and objectively determine how much people doing them shoudl get paid
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:28
|
|
|
Cole posted:this will lead to raising the wages of everyone, which, for a lot of companies (particularly small businesses) isn't feasible. Agreed, the true solution is to force all corporations to be owned and controlled by their workers. 
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:28
|
|
|
The market has decided it wants a steady diet of mashed up child hands. Who are we to deprive the market?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:29
|
|
|
money's not a real thing, deal with it
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:30
|
|
|
Small businesses produce about 1.2 million bucks apiece. Big businesses produce 400 million bucks apiece. If we used less ridiculous definitions, this would get even worse.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:33
|
|
|
paranoid randroid posted:money's not a real thing, deal with it  President Kucinich posted:The market has decided it wants a steady diet of mashed up child hands. Who are we to deprive the market? The Market, peace be upon Him.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
Cole posted:Getting paid what you are worth has nothing to do with self esteem. It has a lot to do with getting paid what you are worth. There are jobs out there that are not worth $15/hour. Cole posted:
It seems to be about self-esteem for you at least. If your job was worth $15 yesterday then it is worth $15 today. Unless you think you aren't getting paid what you are worth?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:38
|
|
|
Grem posted:Companies will make more money because they will have more clients able to afford their goods. That plus the RECORD profits companies have been posting lately is more than enough to offset the cost. You're only thinking of companies like Wal Mart in situations like this. Some small businesses will get railed harder than your favorite prison story, and not necessarily because they are raising minimum wage to $15, but because that will create entitlement among those who were hired before the minimum wage increase. But gently caress small businesses, you know.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:38
|
|
Cole posted:You're only thinking of companies like Wal Mart in situations like this. Some small businesses will get railed harder than your favorite prison story, and not necessarily because they are raising minimum wage to $15, but because that will create entitlement among those who were hired before the minimum wage increase. nooooo not 'entitlement' goddamn these kids, thinking they have a right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, freedom of speech, freedom of worship, privacy, etc. etc.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:It seems to be about self-esteem for you at least. If your job was worth $15 yesterday then it is worth $15 today. Unless you think you aren't getting paid what you are worth? Really? You don't think people would be pissed about getting paid minimum wage simply because minimum wage gets raised so much more drastically than it has been raised in the past? You're pretty hard headed if you think people would be okay with that.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
Is your boss loving you in the rear end fiscally Cole? Maybe you should do something about it instead of whining about the idea of other people getting paid a decent wage for once.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:39
|
|
|
Effectronica posted:nooooo not 'entitlement'
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:40
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:Is your boss loving you in the rear end fiscally Cole? I get paid well above minimum wage, even if it was $15/hour.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:40
|
|
|
people are incredibly stupid assholes and get pissed about everything. this shoudl not be a limiting factor on progress.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:41
|
|
Cole posted:happiness isn't a right, the pursuit of it is. nope, that's entitlement, thinking you have the right to pursue happiness. someone should kick your self-esteemed rear end.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
Cole posted:You're only thinking of companies like Wal Mart in situations like this. Some small businesses will get railed harder than your favorite prison story, and not necessarily because they are raising minimum wage to $15, but because that will create entitlement among those who were hired before the minimum wage increase. "Some businesses living paycheck to paycheck will be totally hosed over if we mandate wage increases! This is why we must gently caress over laborers living paycheck to paycheck. Also those laborers may have their feelings hurt if they're reminded that their economic prospects are based in systemic exploitation and underpayment, so it's better to pay them dogshit and not challenge the blue collar identity that stays the cruel hand of suicide"
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
oh man another guy tripping over himself to establish how much money he makes, this is definitely cool and not a sad thing to do
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
Cole posted:You're only thinking of companies like Wal Mart in situations like this. Some small businesses will get railed harder than your favorite prison story, and not necessarily because they are raising minimum wage to $15, but because that will create entitlement among those who were hired before the minimum wage increase. Small businesses don't drive the economy, maybe they should have worked harder to be successful enough to pay their employees what they're worth.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
Cole posted:Really? You don't think people would be pissed about getting paid minimum wage simply because minimum wage gets raised so much more drastically than it has been raised in the past? You're pretty hard headed if you think people would be okay with that. No, I think plenty of people would be pretty pissed off because they're idiots like you who need to be making more than someone else to feel good, instead of being happy that people might get paid enough that they can work a service sector job and not have to go on welfare or choose between necessities. Doesn't mean we shouldn't raise it.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:42
|
|
Cole posted:Really? You don't think people would be pissed about getting paid minimum wage simply because minimum wage gets raised so much more drastically than it has been raised in the past? You're pretty hard headed if you think people would be okay with that. I can't believe nobody pointed this out, but there are at least three ways you aren't "people", Cole.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
Popular Thug Drink posted:"Some businesses living paycheck to paycheck will be totally hosed over if we mandate wage increases! This is why we must gently caress over laborers living paycheck to paycheck. Also those laborers may have their feelings hurt if they're reminded that their economic prospects are based in systemic exploitation and underpayment, so it's better to pay them dogshit and not challenge the blue collar identity that stays the cruel hand of suicide" You do know it's possible to move on from your $10/hr job to bigger and better things, right? You don't need to artificially get there, you can actually go out and earn $50k a year if you really give some effort.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
Cole posted:Really? You don't think people would be pissed about getting paid minimum wage simply because minimum wage gets raised so much more drastically than it has been raised in the past? You're pretty hard headed if you think people would be okay with that. people got pissed all the time for absolutely stupid reasons that is not a sound basis on which to place economic policy
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:42
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:But that's a function of the underlying costs of health care, not an indication of the increasing generosity of the welfare state. I'd say generosity is best measured by money and the outcome of that generosity is separate. Neither the left or the right understands healthcare properly. It's a tape worm eating up the U.S. economy from the inside out. It explains shrinking military budgets, stagnating wages and continued deficits. quote:And there's a tension in your arguments. You oppose the minimum wage because the solution to these problems is a robust welfare state. Then you complain that welfare doesn't actually do anything and money can't solve these problems after all. Actually yes. Partly because I didn't know the 14k number until I heard it on PBS News Hour a couple days ago. That said, it remains true that in purely economic terms minimum wage is poor as a wealth re-distributor which is the entire point of it. Other programs are effective at transferring wealth, like food stamps, they just still don't get us the outcome we want. quote:Edit: Yeah yeah the source is probably propaganda but the numbers are simple enough I think they're right. Grem posted:Companies will make more money because they will have more clients able to afford their goods. That plus the RECORD profits companies have been posting lately is more than enough to offset the cost. Brilliant! Economic perpetual motion! Cole posted:publix supermarket cake decorators max at $14.89/hour and they cross train people who make minimum bagging groceries to be cake decorators First, his wages will probably go up a bit. Second, too bad.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:43
|
|
your source
|
Cole posted:I get paid well above minimum wage, even if it was $15/hour. Then what the gently caress are you even complaining for?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:43
|
|
Cole posted:You do know it's possible to move on from your $10/hr job to bigger and better things, right? You don't need to artificially get there, you can actually go out and earn $50k a year if you really give some effort. Frankly, you should be fired from your job for this innumeracy.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:43
|
|
|
Cole posted:You do know it's possible to move on from your $10/hr job to bigger and better things, right? You don't need to artificially get there, you can actually go out and earn $50k a year if you really give some effort. are you directly accusing me of making minimum wage or something because i was making fun of your really bad and dumb argument, is your rebuttal actually "you must be poor"
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:43
|
|
|
paragon1 posted:No, I think plenty of people would be pretty pissed off because they're idiots like you who need to be making more than someone else to feel good, instead of being happy that people might get paid enough that they can work a service sector job and not have to go on welfare or choose between necessities. It has nothing to do with making more than someone else to feel good. Stop putting words in my mouth. It has to do with putting in several years of work to get above minimum wage to only get placed right back at minimum wage. You proved yourself over years that you are worth more than minimum, that's why you got a raise in the first place. In many cases, you're giving people who have worked hard to get paid more than minimum wage a raise.... right to minimum wage, and that's a lovely proposition.
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:44
|
|
|
Cole posted:You do know it's possible to move on from your $10/hr job to bigger and better things, right? You don't need to artificially get there, you can actually go out and earn $50k a year if you really give some effort. So you think all the people who are earning minimum wage now are just lazy scum who don't want it enough, eh? Hey Cole, have you ever hosed a watermelon?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:44
|
|
Cole posted:It has nothing to do with making more than someone else to feel good. Stop putting words in my mouth. It has to do with putting in several years of work to get above minimum wage to only get placed right back at minimum wage. You proved yourself over years that you are worth more than minimum, that's why you got a raise in the first place. In many cases, you're giving people who have worked hard to get paid more than minimum wage a raise.... right to minimum wage, and that's a lovely proposition. That is not going to happen you, even though your multiplication-inept brain thinks it will.
|
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 23:51 |
|
|
Cole posted:It has nothing to do with making more than someone else to feel good. Stop putting words in my mouth. It has to do with putting in several years of work to get above minimum wage to only get placed right back at minimum wage. You proved yourself over years that you are worth more than minimum, that's why you got a raise in the first place. In many cases, you're giving people who have worked hard to get paid more than minimum wage a raise.... right to minimum wage, and that's a lovely proposition. so you don't care how much money you're paid in an absolute sense, you only care that you make more money than your inferiors?
|
|
#
?
May 8, 2015 00:45
|
|