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Einander posted:
 South Moundtop has got to be one of the most obtuse and luck based things in videogaming ever. It's like pinnacle SaGa.
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May 8, 2015 01:49
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Heavy neutrino posted:South Moundtop is a massive kick in the nuts unless you abuse a mechanic that I'm fairly sure the game never ever tells you about, in which case you might only have one reset or two if you're really unlucky. it's pure SaGa. Yeah, even if you abuse that mechanic (which only really works if you're following a step-by-step guide or have the process memorized) you're still liable to get RNG-screwed at any and every opportunity. It turns a "restart eighty times" into a much more reasonable "restart eight times" Ayana posted:South Moundtop has got to be one of the most obtuse and luck based things in videogaming ever. It's like pinnacle SaGa. No, Unlimited Saga is "pinnacle SaGa". This is a semi-close second.
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May 8, 2015 03:56
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Daerc posted:I think I can safely say I speak for everyone who's played this when I say gently caress the Battle of South Moundtop. I swear I'm the only one who figured this battle out after two tries  It took me another two tries to do it right, but it wasn't luck-based or anything.
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May 8, 2015 04:13
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KataraniSword posted:No, Unlimited Saga is "pinnacle SaGa". This is a semi-close second. I really hope someone does a good screenshot LP of this someday. I actually watched four of the scenarios in a Video LP of the game, and everything just feels so carefully crafted. The sprites, the music, the characters, the stories, and the world are extremely well done -- It feels like a game a lot of love went into it. Too bad the battle system and character advancement are just completely indecipherable. It might have been a lot better received if it came with an Infinity-Engine style manual.
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May 8, 2015 04:30
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Chuu posted:I really hope someone does a good screenshot LP of this someday. I actually watched four of the scenarios in a Video LP of the game, and everything just feels so carefully crafted. The sprites, the music, the characters, the stories, and the world are extremely well done -- It feels like a game a lot of love went into it. I tried to play it and gather information from Youtube about how to do so because that information sure doesn't exist (or didn't then, I guess it may now) in text form. The instruction videos had a cumulative runtime of over an hour.
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May 8, 2015 05:01
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KataraniSword posted:No, Unlimited Saga is "pinnacle SaGa". This is a semi-close second. That's not 'pinnacle SaGa', that's 'SaGa transcending its earthly shackles and becoming a law unto itself'. Still really want to see an LP that describes everything step-by-step. And a copy of the Japanese guidebook, if only for the fact it's basically 650 pages of art from the game.
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May 8, 2015 07:56
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The more people talk about Unlimited SaGa the more I regret it being the one I've never actually played.
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May 8, 2015 08:19
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:That's not 'pinnacle SaGa', that's 'SaGa transcending its earthly shackles and becoming a law unto itself'. And after all that, I even stopped watching because it's so boring. The LPer knows what he is doing to get through the game, but it's just move check for treasure find treasure check for traps fail a check fight a mimic (this is somehow a good thing, unless you get creamed totally which can also happen), move check move check find open worthless move move check move check fight. Everything is so unbelievably tedious and you have to do that or you get orifice-penetrated in all the wrong ways, apparently even if you have a more than cursory understanding of a combat system that might as well be you rolling dice on the outcome while throwing ten buckets of paint on a wall, drinking the leftovers and seeing what happens. Then you end an Adventure or whatever and get panels to build up your skills which are the only way to do that and you have to put them in certain configurations on a grid next to zodiac signs and corresponding to elements and what the gently caress is even going on anymore???
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May 8, 2015 13:03
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I dropped in on a friend who had Unlimited SaGa while I was in college. I tried to play for five minutes, ten minutes and don't think I can tell you want I was even doing. All I know is I want to punch the designer in the head.
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May 8, 2015 13:29
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Nakar posted:David is one cool-rear end motherfucker. I don't know, I read a change in attitude after David heard the news about his father's death. After the messenger comes in he goes from wanting to successfully conclude these peace talks to "let's conclude these peace talks, so that we can prepare for war." Granted he's still cool-headed enough to negotiate for Hahn Nova's independence but 'avenge father' definitely moved up high on his bullet point list
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May 8, 2015 13:38
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Well, his dad was the leader of a nation. Regardless of who was the aggressor, the existing powers can little tolerate someone who can do that. Fake Gustave is a clear and present danger.
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May 8, 2015 13:41
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I interpreted David's reaction as closer to "well, at least now that my jerk dad is gone it'll be easier to negotiate an alliance." And it was.
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May 8, 2015 14:07
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Lotish posted:I dropped in on a friend who had Unlimited SaGa while I was in college. I tried to play for five minutes, ten minutes and don't think I can tell you want I was even doing. All I know is I want to punch the designer in the head. Sounds like me then, I saw it in the game store once and I was all like "Hey a SaGa game" and I bought it. Didn't get anything on how to do anything.
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May 8, 2015 15:06
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Bellmaker posted:I swear I'm the only one who figured this battle out after two tries Part of the problem I had (and the problem that still creates restarts for me when I do the scenario now), is that at least 4 of the 5 enemy groups you really want to be dead by the start of turn 5 have flame naga (I know all the sword rangers do, I don't believe I've seen the spear rangers cast it). I've never seen flame naga not kill a target that wasn't defending and it has an aoe large enough that a good percentage of the time it'll hit two of your guys. It's far from impossible, but needing to get through 4 fights without being hosed over by enemies that can oneshot you makes it exceedingly tedious if you keep getting hit with RNG bullshit. It's a great example of something where the strategy is easy and the execution is easy and I've been stuck on it for a while because a ranger unit keeps deciding they don't want to do anything other than Flame Naga (and the spear unit can get into the annoying bullshit world with lawnmower, though at least if they're fighting they're generally far enough away to not matter that much to the battle at large). I mean gently caress, the most consistent kill the boss strat I'm aware of is almost pure RNG on the final fight and I still prefer it because only two fights against rangers matter, and one of those is just making sure your losses aren't too heavy.
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May 8, 2015 16:35
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Heavy neutrino posted:I interpreted David's reaction as closer to "well, at least now that my jerk dad is gone it'll be easier to negotiate an alliance." And it was. I'd say "which will no doubt work out better than it did for Charles," but South Moundtop might put the lie to that at least a couple times.
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May 8, 2015 16:39
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Freedom for Party Nova! also, gently caress South Moundtop.
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May 8, 2015 18:33
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Koorisch posted:Sounds like me then, I saw it in the game store once and I was all like "Hey a SaGa game" and I bought it. I bought Unlimited SaGa entirely because I wanted to see firsthand how much of a complete mess it was. In that regard I walked away fairly satisfied.
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May 8, 2015 20:08
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Wow, I really fell behind on this, but I'm glad I caught up in time for that thing everyone's so excited about! Gotta admit, I wasn't expecting them to kill Gustave off so early, and I was totally expecting him to pull a "never found the body" at some point... Surprises are nice, even if I did like him better than most of the rest of the cast. 
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May 8, 2015 21:06
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To put it in terms a fellow Suikoden fan would understand: Luca Blight... Times 3... times like 5 or so.
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May 8, 2015 21:11
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vilkacis posted:Wow, I really fell behind on this, but I'm glad I caught up in time for that thing everyone's so excited about! Honestly, when I first played this game, I was really just wanting to play Gustave, but it's not really about him so much.
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May 8, 2015 21:33
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Is Gustave even all that good of a character mechanically? It seems like the lack of anima is crippling for various reasons in this game, and the really good steel equipment isn't even going to be available until well after his death, so it's not like he ever gets to use anything but his own sword (and as Gustaf shows, you can totally use steel anyway). I mean I guess he gets more gameplay scenarios than a lot of useless one-hit-wonders, but that just means he's kind of Tyler-tier instead of Cordelia or even Wil.
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May 8, 2015 22:13
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Nakar posted:Is Gustave even all that good of a character mechanically? It seems like the lack of anima is crippling for various reasons in this game, and the really good steel equipment isn't even going to be available until well after his death, so it's not like he ever gets to use anything but his own sword (and as Gustaf shows, you can totally use steel anyway). I mean I guess he gets more gameplay scenarios than a lot of useless one-hit-wonders, but that just means he's kind of Tyler-tier instead of Cordelia or even Wil. Not in the context of scenarios that aren't his own. He's perfectly capable in any of the scenarios he is usable. But if you're asking, like, would he ever be anything other than a liability in a final party? No, he'd be a huge handicap.
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May 8, 2015 22:40
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Nakar posted:Is Gustave even all that good of a character mechanically? It seems like the lack of anima is crippling for various reasons in this game, and the really good steel equipment isn't even going to be available until well after his death, so it's not like he ever gets to use anything but his own sword (and as Gustaf shows, you can totally use steel anyway). I mean I guess he gets more gameplay scenarios than a lot of useless one-hit-wonders, but that just means he's kind of Tyler-tier instead of Cordelia or even Wil. Gustave never really fights anything hard but he has ridiculously more hp, wp and sword growth than anyone else and his weapon is always well ahead of the curve.
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May 8, 2015 22:42
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FeyerbrandX posted:To put it in terms a fellow Suikoden fan would understand: Luca Blight... Times 3... times like 5 or so.   Well poo poo, now I'm even more interested! (Fully expecting Einander to just breeze through it after all this build-up.)
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May 8, 2015 22:49
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I don't think he'd be a huge problem considering he'd still have like 3 WPR by the end of the game, a sword stat in the low stratosphere, and an open hand to use Cinderforge in. He'd certainly be better than Gustaf, and Spell Arts aren't that essential in the final few areas, especially if you have 3 other party members covering his rear end. Really the only problem a Gustave party would have is lacking a 4th person casting buff spells since that's all that really matters in the last battle.
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May 8, 2015 22:51
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Gustave has massive HP, WP and Sword growth, and he'd definitely be a wrecking ball if you gave him the Cinderforge Sword.
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May 8, 2015 22:54
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Yeah, I tried watching the same one, and the AV quality put me off quickly. I think he switched to higher-quality video recently, but that doesn't help the 150+ vids already done. Koorisch posted:Sounds like me then, I saw it in the game store once and I was all like "Hey a SaGa game" and I bought it. I bought it, didn't understand it, traded it in, then bought it cheap a few years later because the PAL release was a hecka pretty package. Never played that copy, but it sure is nice to look at!
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May 8, 2015 23:26
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Einander posted:The more people talk about Unlimited SaGa the more I regret it being the one I've never actually played. You could fix that. Subject yourself to the madness.
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May 8, 2015 23:55
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Maybe someone could do a blind LP where we'll all experience the madness equally and the thread will be a group effort to get through the game.
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May 9, 2015 01:00
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Doing Unlimited SaGa blind could be interesting, if I figure out the tech end of it; I don't have anything else in mind after this. I'm fairly good at the whole SaGa thing, after all, but I know absolutely nothing about it otherwise (board games are involved?). I'm curious. Run through it once blind, and if I don't hate it afterwards, do some reading and experimenting and actually do it competently? Not putting that down for anything other than "distant maybe," though, not least because I don't know if it'd be enjoyable to read. (I might always do Dragon Quarter or Minstrel Song, those haven't had finished LPs yet.) I beat the Battle of South Moundtop just now (and I honestly wasn't sure how long that'd take), so the LP may not go on break after all. Update may be Tuesday instead of Monday, though. In honor of the averted hiatus, let's play a game! It's something for all players, old and new. How many tries do you think it took? Bold your votes.
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May 9, 2015 01:28
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6 You know what you're doing, but so does the cheating loving RNG too.
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May 9, 2015 01:35
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Einander posted:It's something for all players, old and new. How many tries do you think it took? Bold your votes. Depends on if you showed off both ways of beating it, legit and "help I am bad at war battles". EDIT: Using simple math, that's a vote for 3 tries. 3 very, very stressful tries where you were consistently one wrong move away from complete and utter failure. The trick is, the cheap way is far more RNG-reliant? But you're able to spot fuckups much, much quicker, so you'll have to retry it more times but you'll be able to run it more times in the same amount of time. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 06:55 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 01:37
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4 is a nice, round number.
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May 9, 2015 01:38
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KataraniSword posted:Depends on if you showed off both ways of beating it, legit and "help I am bad at war battles". To clarify: the votes are for the legit way. I'm showing off both, and you can vote for the numbers of tries on the exploit path if you want, but do that separately for clarity.
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May 9, 2015 01:41
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I'm going to say 7 tries.
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May 9, 2015 01:42
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8, based off my attempt count minus about 10.
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May 9, 2015 01:45
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Well somebody's gotta do it, so one.
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May 9, 2015 01:46
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lucky number 13.
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May 9, 2015 01:54
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Nakar posted:Well somebody's gotta do it, so one. The first one will be close. But at the last critical moment something will happen.
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May 9, 2015 02:51
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I'm gonna roll with the idea that the game took some kind of pity on you and say 2.
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May 9, 2015 03:30
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