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paragon1 posted:No, we understand that feeling and feel that it is a callow and shortsighted reaction that works against that persons best interests. And a lot of the people who would be having that reaction are also probably bigoted as all hell so gently caress 'em.
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May 8, 2015 01:03
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Cole thinks it's a bad thing that a guy with 3 years experience as a bagger and a recently hired guy should both afford to live.
Grem fucked around with this message at 01:28 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 01:04
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paragon1 posted:$15 an hour works out to $31,200 a year, which is okay but not great if you are the sole earner in a household with multiple dependents. It's actually below a living wage for any family with kids that has one earner.
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May 8, 2015 01:04
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He also remains distressingly silent on his watermelon loving status. What are you hiding Cole?
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May 8, 2015 01:04
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Effectronica posted:It's actually below a living wage for any family with kids that has one earner. Well I did suggest that it should actually be $20 an hour. I freely admit to not being super familiar of the real costs of raising children.
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May 8, 2015 01:05
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cole is ashamed to admit that others gently caress the melon better, for lower pay
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May 8, 2015 01:06
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paragon1 posted:Well I did suggest that it should actually be $20 an hour. Yeah, realistically, it should be 20-21 nationally to cover single parents and one-income households (and higher in the west coast and new england), though with readjusting welfare payments you could make it work with 15/hour
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May 8, 2015 01:07
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What we should actually actually do is nationalize all businesses, abolish property, and freely distribute wealth between citizens according to need, tbh. But I'll settle for everyone being able to afford food, shelter, and medicine.
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May 8, 2015 01:08
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But if everyone can afford food, shelter, and medicine, then all my years of work to get to a place where I can watch my inferiors starve were for naught! 
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May 8, 2015 01:13
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Cole posted:In a perfect world, you would take a baseline amount that it takes to live on (to cover rent, food, etc), increase it by a certain percentage (say 10%), and call that minimum wage. If you have a child that you are the primary care for, maybe you are eligible for a monthly stipend to help care for your kid. Cole posted:The core of my argument has been about that guy who is already making $15/hour. You are undermining what that person has done for several years by sticking them back at minimum wage anyway. It also has drastic impacts for small businesses. Cole posted:
Ham Equity fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 01:14
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Teens and single mothers aren't really people, you see.
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May 8, 2015 01:16
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I made a $5 minimum wage back in the 90s. I'm so mad that these lazy kids today get $7 and I don't understand the real value of money so I think they're getting more for free. Please base national economic policy on my ignorant butthurt feelings, it's only fair.
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May 8, 2015 01:26
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VitalSigns posted:I made a $5 minimum wage back in the 90s. I'm so mad that these lazy kids today get $7 and I don't understand the real value of money so I think they're getting more for free.
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May 8, 2015 01:29
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Cole posted:In a perfect world, you would take a baseline amount that it takes to live on (to cover rent, food, etc), increase it by a certain percentage (say 10%), and call that minimum wage. If you have a child that you are the primary care for, maybe you are eligible for a monthly stipend to help care for your kid. you're right the minimum wage should be $22/hr
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May 8, 2015 01:49
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The idea of young people getting paid enough to build a nice savings while moving into adulthood or being less reliant on loans really hurts my self esteem.
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May 8, 2015 02:06
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Cole please think about the self esteem of teen sociopaths and how bad it would be to force them to rely on charity or handouts to get by.
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May 8, 2015 02:15
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Cole posted:The core of my argument has been about that guy who is already making $15/hour. You are undermining what that person has done for several years by sticking them back at minimum wage anyway. It also has drastic impacts for small businesses. You haven't demonstrated "that guy" exists outside of your imagination. You just keep restating it, as though if you invoke it enough times it'll be real. Like Beetlejuice.
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May 8, 2015 02:17
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i don't understand where people are getting this $15 figure from. what we should do instead is figure out the average expenses for a family of four, and then calculate how much a person would need to be paid every hour for 40 hours, 52 weeks a year, in order to hit that target That number has literally zero to do with how the market would otherwise price labor and setting prices (wages) in the market has negative consequences. Minimum wage has avoided negative consequences because it's always been tiny.
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May 8, 2015 02:27
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asdf32 posted:That number has literally zero to do with how the market would otherwise price labor and setting prices (wages) in the market has negative consequences. The market is a human invention. Down with the slavocrats! Down with the reign of the idiot-god!
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May 8, 2015 02:31
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Effectronica posted:The market is a human invention. Down with the slavocrats! Down with the reign of the idiot-god! Right and so is a hammer. What's your point.
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May 8, 2015 02:34
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The biggest negative impact avoided being the abolition of impoverished workers.
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May 8, 2015 02:35
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asdf32 posted:That number has literally zero to do with how the market would otherwise price labor and setting prices (wages) in the market has negative consequences. What are these consequences, and where is the proof. The most recent literature shows there is little to no negative effect, and the positive effect of people having more money is obvious.
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May 8, 2015 02:35
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asdf32 posted:Right and so is a hammer. What's your point. All priests of the Mindless God must be destroyed relentlessly and ferociously. EDIT: Watermelon fuckers must be extra destroyed.
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May 8, 2015 02:38
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asdf32 posted:Right and so is a hammer. What's your point. I don't do what my hammer tells me to.
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May 8, 2015 02:42
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We've been lucky up til now, and labor laws have increased safety, prosperity, and quality of life despite the predictions of certain doom...but this time if we raise the minimum wage it will be certain doom! DOOOOOOOOM!
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May 8, 2015 02:42
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VitalSigns posted:What are these consequences, and where is the proof. The negative consequences are the things that prevent even you from calling for $100 minimum wage.
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May 8, 2015 02:46
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asdf32 posted:The negative consequences are the things that prevent even you from calling for $100 minimum wage. Whoa whoa don't you realize the dangers of drinking 8 glasses of water in a day? No? Oh, well what if you drank 800 glasses in a day, that'd be pretty bad wouldn't it. Therefore, drinking water kills you, never do it.
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May 8, 2015 02:49
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You should only drink enough water so that your piss is orange and stings.
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May 8, 2015 03:07
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If you ban child labor below the age of 12, this would hurt the economy. I know this is true because what if you banned workers below the age of 120? In all things, I never look at what something does, I look at what would happen if you increased it by a full order of magnitude and assume this always applies.
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May 8, 2015 03:13
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VitalSigns posted:If you ban child labor below the age of 12, this would hurt the economy. $15 minimum wage isn't far off from that buddy in terms of dollars or percents.
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May 8, 2015 03:20
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So your argument is $15 is closer to $100 than to $7. In other words you are arguing from innumeracy. What if you made the minimum wage $Texas? There's not even enough Texas to go around, did you ever think of that, huh liberals?
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May 8, 2015 03:27
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asdf32 posted:$15 minimum wage isn't far off from that buddy in terms of dollars or percents. We have come with fire and sword in the names of Isis, Hermes Djehuty Trismegistus, and Tezcatlipoca to put an end to your idolatry.
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May 8, 2015 03:27
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asdf32 posted:That number has literally zero to do with how the market would otherwise price labor and setting prices (wages) in the market has negative consequences. the market is entirely a creation of regulation by some outside authority, so it's like extremely odd and dumb to cite regulation itself as negative to a market just because remember how you quit the thread last time i pointed out your argument could easily approve of child labor?
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May 8, 2015 03:29
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asdf32 posted:$15 minimum wage isn't far off from that buddy in terms of dollars or percents. Let today be forever noted as when asdf32 argued that the numbers 15 and 100 were pretty much the same thing. asdf32 this may shock you but 100 is over 500% bigger than 15 Raskolnikov38 fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 04:28
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Let today be forever noted as when asdf32 argued that the numbers 15 and 100 were pretty much the same thing. Clearly the child of the rich when they embrace inequality but don't grasp just how much those zeros matter
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May 8, 2015 04:30
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asdf32 posted:$15 minimum wage isn't far off from that buddy in terms of dollars or percents. I'm sorry that your education has failed you so badly
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May 8, 2015 04:41
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I've noticed that libertarians and conservatives often fall back on absurdist boundary condition arguments as though that's completely reasonable "But what if we made the minimum wage infinity dollars, that would be crazy, huh? Therefore a minimum wage increase to $15 is just as crazy!" "If you let gays get married then you have to let people marry children, animals, or even plants. Are you going to take responsibility when some guy puts his dick in his new cactus bride? I thought not! Ergo we can't let gays get married" "If you raise taxes on top earners then you may as well just make it a 100% tax, is that what you really want you loving communist?"
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May 8, 2015 04:48
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QuarkJets posted:I've noticed that libertarians and conservatives often fall back on absurdist boundary condition arguments as though that's completely reasonable It works because it causes the people who advocate these things to resort to essentially the same arguments as the people they are arguing against: "If a minimum wage of $15 is good, then $50 would be even better" -> This is bad because the wage is too high "If adults have the right to marry anyone they want, why do we criminalize polygamy and other unconventional mariages in addition to gay marriage" -> This is bad because the people who practice bigamy are icky
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May 8, 2015 04:54
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If legalizing gay marriage legalized bigamy I'd be against it. Women have a genetic history of either being forced or joining harems, and i'd rather not deal with rape gangs or whatever other social problems you can see come from that.
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May 8, 2015 05:03
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on the left posted:It works because it causes the people who advocate these things to resort to essentially the same arguments as the people they are arguing against: It also tends to be frustrating to argue against, because (like Libertarianism and Conservatism), it's based on child-level reasoning that isn't suited for talking about the real world. The real world of course has trade-offs and there's no reason to assume the point of maximum benefit must lie at some extreme. But to a child, if mommy lies once then mommy is a liar and can never be trusted again, or if one thing in the Bible is metaphor then it's all a lie therefore earth must have been literally created in seven days beginning on a certain Monday 6,000 years ago. If you allow gay marriage then you're saying gay marriage is good and the next step is to force everyone to get gay married at gunpoint, etc etc. So instead of a discussion of the trade-offs and benefits of the minimum wage you get reasoning along the lines of "cars are unsafe at any speed, if you drove 65,000,000,0000 mph you'd destroy a whole city!" But it works well at winning over people who think like children. It also helps if your audience is poorly educated and will believe you if you say roughly a twofold increase ($7->$15) is a larger change than roughly a sixfold increase ($15->$100). VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 06:20 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 06:17
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