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NarkyBark posted:Edit: no forgiving the wardrobe choices though. Holy poo poo those uniforms are terrible. They're so cheap. I think I read they're so cheap because they were initially made for the Star Trek Phase II pilot that was eventually adapted into the Motion Picture. I can't believe no on eat any point wasn't like "just stick with the old uniform." Not that I'd always want them to, just the Motion Picture ones are so terrible. The jump from them to Wrath of Khan is amazing.
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May 9, 2015 04:41
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Snak posted:The guy in "Conscience of the King" was the leader of a federation colony and he murdered half his population to make the food last longer for the remaining population. He, obviously, was in the mental institution so he could someday sleep at night after sacrificing half of his constituency to save the other half.
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May 9, 2015 04:50
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Neo Rasa posted:They're so cheap. I think I read they're so cheap because they were initially made for the Star Trek Phase II pilot that was eventually adapted into the Motion Picture. I can't believe no on eat any point wasn't like "just stick with the old uniform." Not that I'd always want them to, just the Motion Picture ones are so terrible. The jump from them to Wrath of Khan is amazing. Surprisingly, no. Phase II was actually going to use uniforms that were extremely close to the TOS ones, it was Robert Wise who made them use the space jumpsuits.because he wanted muted colors.
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May 9, 2015 04:57
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Weird. I mean muted colors are cool but the material or whatever just looks so flimsy and cheap, horrible.
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May 9, 2015 05:36
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Star Trek uniforms always look cheap and lame, that's part of the fun. Style and fashion are dead, casualties of WWIII or something. It's a science-military vessel in the future, they're not gonna dress well.
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May 9, 2015 06:14
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More velour! More lamé! More weird green sarongs and Nehru jackets!
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May 9, 2015 07:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The point of the bungled mission in the opening scene, after all, is that the original Star Trek was kinda racist. Kirk is chastised for 'playing God', but the implicit point is that the federation actually does see itself as God to 'lower people'. The question raised by the prime directive is this: what is so toxic that contact with other people must be so carefully avoided? Why are the Star Trekkers trying desperately to preserve some paganist 'harmony with nature' nonsense? The opposition between pure harmony and catastrophic disruption forecloses a third possibility: beneficial disruption. Why not approach those people as brothers, instead of as children? The Prime Directive was created because humanity has the hubris to think its particular timeline is the correct timeline and all other species must bow to this particular arrangement of events. Humanity didn't make official contact with aliens until Zephram Cochrane's warp flight, so the ONLY POSSIBLE way for any species to enter into the interstellar community is through that path. Anything else might risk that species not being totally in lock step agreement with the Federation. Warp drive or go gently caress yourselves, weirdos.
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May 9, 2015 07:29
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Neo Rasa posted:They're so cheap. I think I read they're so cheap because they were initially made for the Star Trek Phase II pilot that was eventually adapted into the Motion Picture. I can't believe no on eat any point wasn't like "just stick with the old uniform." Not that I'd always want them to, just the Motion Picture ones are so terrible. The jump from them to Wrath of Khan is amazing. TWOK went with red because that color worked the best in dying the jumpsuits from TMP. The cadet jumpsuits are almost (if not) all leftover and reworked from TMP. Now, TOS, they were so tight for costuming money that they were literally taking red-eye deliveries from illegal sweatshops.
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May 9, 2015 08:40
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Also the Prime Directive is clearly a bulwark against starship captains just going off and creating their own personal kingdoms all over the drat place, as seen with the inevitable tendency of captains to become corrupted and demented by their power.
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May 9, 2015 08:41
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There's also the fact that the prime directive is a Starfleet directive, not a Federation directive. I figure the Federation can choose to break it, it just has to be decided by the civilian government as a whole rather than some military ship captain.
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May 9, 2015 08:48
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It's important to keep in mind that Star Trek is really heavily metaphorical. The interplanetary travel isn't literal at all, nor are the individual planets. For example, there's the planet from the TOS episode "Bread And Circuses" - a combination of the Roman Empire and 1960s America. This is explained away with bullshit, and makes pretty much no sense if taken literally. The obvious political metaphor, however, is that 1960s America is as bad as the Roman Empire. It's also a prime directive episode, with Kirk trying to keep his existence hidden so that the Romans aren't unduly influenced. But the kicker is that the villain, the 'benevolent' leader of the Romans, also believes in 'the prime directive' - forcing the spacemen to assimilate into his society, to avoid disrupting his rule. So not only is this dystopian planet a metaphor for life in the 1960s, it's a metaphor for Starfleet's failure. Their directive gives this rear end in a top hat exactly what he wants. At the end of the episode, everyone is confused about how primitive slave-aliens could understand universal brotherhood. It's Uhura - a black woman in 1968, mind - who patiently explains that they understand it because they're Christians. Already, in this episode from 1968 (written by Roddenberry!) Starfleet is getting called out for not being Christian enough.
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May 9, 2015 10:03
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"Star Trek shows cracks in the liberal utopia" is probably the most conventional thing I've ever seen SMG write. It's, like - d'uh. That's so obvious, even the writers themselves knew it, and they sometimes even intentionally made that point.
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May 9, 2015 13:35
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Wasn't that like, the entire purpose of Deep Space Nine?
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May 9, 2015 16:28
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Neo Rasa posted:Wasn't that like, the entire purpose of Deep Space Nine? Pretty much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcGUUSPvKM
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May 9, 2015 16:32
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The prime directive is just there so Captain Kirk can break it. Is there a single pre-spaceship planet where he doesn't destroy their supercomputer overlord or collapse their entire way of life? Those Romans are hosed: I hope they enjoy their dark age after having television and dentistry for a while.
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May 9, 2015 16:34
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Timby posted:Pretty much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmcGUUSPvKM This is unironically one of the best scenes in DS9, IMO.
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May 9, 2015 16:39
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Neo Rasa posted:Wasn't that like, the entire purpose of Deep Space Nine? It's also why it's the best star trek show.
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May 9, 2015 18:12
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Cingulate posted:"Star Trek shows cracks in the liberal utopia" is probably the most conventional thing I've ever seen SMG write. It's, like - d'uh. That's so obvious, even the writers themselves knew it, and they sometimes even intentionally made that point. It's something that perhaps should be obvious, but gets lost in the technobabble and canonicity. It's also important to look at the specific form of the message. DS9 has a scene where the characters explain directly to the audience that the federation is just like the borgs, but that lesson was already implicit from the moment the borgs were first introduced. The whole concept of 'first contact' - and the prime directive as a means of regulating first contact - is a metaphor for trying to deal with/prevent radical social change. That's why First Contact makes absolutely no sense as a literal depiction of time-travel but focusses on the idea that whatshisface Cochran's discovery as unwittingly summoned the borgs (in the same way that the atomic bomb wakes Godzilla). It's Cochran's nightmare of the future: "what if I create something that sucks?" From the perspective of the Enterprise crew, the question they're exploring in this fantasy adventure is "where did we go wrong?" Why does the film begin with a 'gritty' space war? So the Trekkers eventually defeat the borgs with their optimism or whatever, and the borgs are instantly replaced by benevolent vulcans. In other words, the vulcans and borgs are the same people, viewed from a slightly different perspective - both representing the future of humanity. Not coincidentally, Star Trek 2009 is also about a vulcan ship and a 'borg' ship suddenly arriving from the future to do battle on Earth in the present day. The 'external' conflict of human-vulcan- borg just happens to perfectly align with the 'internal' friendship dynamic of Kirk-Spock-McCoy.
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May 9, 2015 19:43
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Oh like you don't know the characters' first names.
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May 9, 2015 19:59
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I STILL think we deserve a DS9 movie and a Voyager movie.
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May 9, 2015 20:29
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Whoever said The Motion Picture is a good paring with some weed wasn't kidding. That movie owned. Onto Wrath of Khan!
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May 9, 2015 20:36
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Jack Gladney posted:Oh like you don't know the characters' first names. Of course I do, but nobody calls him Dave Spock.
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May 9, 2015 22:34
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's important to keep in mind that Star Trek is really heavily metaphorical. The interplanetary travel isn't literal at all, nor are the individual planets. Christianity has a pretty bad history when it comes to spreading its good word with less advanced peoples. The Prime Directive quickly becomes absurd in most of the scenarios it crops up in but the concept that our hyper-advanced spacemen shouldn't become so full of their own poo poo that they think they have a moral obligation to spread their society to everyone else, particularly those who don't have the means to resist them, isn't a bad one. As I think we'd both agree, the Federation is pretty inadequate despite the technological wonders it's achieved, that they're not going round trying to induct pre-industrial civilisations into their society is one of their few saving graces.
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May 9, 2015 23:26
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Christianity has a pretty bad history when it comes to spreading its good word with less advanced peoples. The Prime Directive quickly becomes absurd in most of the scenarios it crops up in but the concept that our hyper-advanced spacemen shouldn't become so full of their own poo poo that they think they have a moral obligation to spread their society to everyone else, particularly those who don't have the means to resist them, isn't a bad one. As I think we'd both agree, the Federation is pretty inadequate despite the technological wonders it's achieved, that they're not going round trying to induct pre-industrial civilisations into their society is one of their few saving graces. Unless it's run by a supercomputer
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May 9, 2015 23:28
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piscesbobbie posted:I STILL think we deserve a DS9 movie and a Voyager movie. First Contact could've been a joint TNG/DS9 movie, or even just a DS9 movie on its own. Sisko going apeshit on the Borg would've made more sense than Picard's out-of-nowhere vendetta, at least.
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May 10, 2015 00:27
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Christianity has a pretty bad history when it comes to spreading its good word with less advanced peoples. The Prime Directive quickly becomes absurd in most of the scenarios it crops up in but the concept that our hyper-advanced spacemen shouldn't become so full of their own poo poo that they think they have a moral obligation to spread their society to everyone else, particularly those who don't have the means to resist them, isn't a bad one. As I think we'd both agree, the Federation is pretty inadequate despite the technological wonders it's achieved, that they're not going round trying to induct pre-industrial civilisations into their society is one of their few saving graces. Colonialism is bad because of the exploitation of the colonized. Uhura is expressly not advocating that. Her implicit point is that the federation fails if it allows exploitation to persist anywhere - and that includes within the Federation itself. This goes well beyond simple morality, and into ethics. There's nothing ethical in tolerating slavery because 'it's their culture' or 'they're just less advanced' or whatever. The point of the twist is that Christ isn't just some dude from thousands of years ago, but a god who exists wherever people are enslaved. If you're not on Christ's side, whose side are you on? SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:22 on May 10, 2015 |
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May 10, 2015 02:18
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:So the Trekkers eventually defeat the borgs with their optimism or whatever, and the borgs are instantly replaced by benevolent vulcans. In other words, the vulcans and borgs are the same people, viewed from a slightly different perspective - both representing the future of humanity. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOQnppM5P74
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May 11, 2015 00:01
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PeterWeller posted:TMP is rad. It's a long TOS episode with really great effects. So they show off the model. You'd want to show that model off too. When that scene started in the theaters in '79, there was cheering and clapping from the audience. You had to be there, man.
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May 14, 2015 00:33
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Does the bluray set contain the directors cut of The Motion Picture?
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Jul 28, 2015 02:18
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Yaws posted:Does the bluray set contain the directors cut of The Motion Picture? No, the new FX for TMP were made in SD only. The Blu-Ray set contains the theatrical cut only. Personally, I'd prefer to watch the Director's Cut in SD than the Theatrical in HD.
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Jul 28, 2015 02:22
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MikeJF posted:Personally, I'd prefer to watch the Director's Cut in SD than the Theatrical in HD. Yeah? I've only seen the theatrical cut (which I loved). Kinda curious about the DC.
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Jul 28, 2015 02:27
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Yaws posted:Yeah? I've only seen the theatrical cut (which I loved). Kinda curious about the DC. The Director's Edition has some positives and negatives. By and large, the pacing is improved and the new effects are pretty seamless with a few exceptions, but there are some inexplicable changes (removing Kirk's second "viewer off!" is unforgivable) and the new sound mix is just terrible.
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Jul 28, 2015 16:12
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Timby posted:The Director's Edition has some positives and negatives. By and large, the pacing is improved and the new effects are pretty seamless with a few exceptions, but there are some inexplicable changes (removing Kirk's second "viewer off!" is unforgivable) and the new sound mix is just terrible. You can't mess with THWOMMMM.
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Jul 29, 2015 11:40
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Prime Directive Talk: I always figured the PD came from the position that no matter how pure your motivations are, stepping into another people's poo poo because you have a Better Idea is just setting the stage for you lording over the other people. Over time, you're just going to be a micromanager at best. Hell, one of the best bits of Enterprise was a Vulcan saying "We found you folks after a world war half a decade ago, and guess what? We're still here."
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Aug 16, 2015 05:44
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Trailer time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szYGln3eNeA
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Dec 14, 2015 17:39
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It's been some time since I've run through TOS but if any of that is a callback to something that happened, I'm missing it
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Dec 14, 2015 17:52
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Rewired Gorn, mebbe?
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Dec 14, 2015 17:59
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It's a callback to all the times they were marooned on an alien planet made of styrofoam rocks and plastic sets and got caught up in a heavy-handed political allegory, so in that sense it looks like the most true to TOS film since The Undiscovered Country
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Dec 14, 2015 18:01
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The series is dead, Jim.
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Dec 14, 2015 18:05
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A Steampunk Gent posted:It's a callback to all the times they were marooned on an alien planet made of styrofoam rocks and plastic sets and got caught up in a heavy-handed political allegory, so in that sense it looks like the most true to TOS film since The Undiscovered Country Yep, you probably nailed it.
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Dec 14, 2015 18:10
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