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AnonSpore
Jan 19, 2012

"I didn't see the part where he develops as a character so I guess he never developed as a character"
Make him start with the D10 :unsmigghh:

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Tofu Injection
Feb 10, 2006

No need to panic.
Does the monster manual trick to get bandage girl not work anymore? I just spent a bunch of time doing it and no message showed up, even though a super bandage girl is running around on my screen.

ferroque
Oct 27, 2007

You may have only gotten a level 3 bandage girl

Tofu Injection
Feb 10, 2006

No need to panic.
I ended up going on until I had 2 super bandage girls, gave up, touched the chest and it gave me the note. No note for the super bandage item though. Not sure what the deal is with that.

Skaw
Aug 5, 2004
I hope he gives Lost spectral tears to start. Really think that should've been there from the start. It's a spooky ghost, why doesn't it cry ghost tears!

LionYeti
Oct 12, 2008


Skaw posted:

I hope he gives Lost spectral tears to start. Really think that should've been there from the start. It's a spooky ghost, why doesn't it cry ghost tears!

I would go with spectral tears and the choice of either the D4 or D6, with the other item pedestal disappearing so you couldn't reroll it into an extra item. Or hell even change the item pools so you can't get straight health upgrades or stuff like Charm of the Vampire

LionYeti fucked around with this message at 23:04 on May 7, 2015

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Those options for changes to The Lost are kinda pointless, but I guess the D6 helps a bit. Though rerolling one health up item into another health up item would be pretty hilarious. I think I'd rather start with the Book of Belial like Judas so you get guaranteed devil deals and decent damage. Hell, the Goat Head would be amazing by itself even without the damage Belial gives you.

Also he is so salty about The Lost in that update post, wow.

edit: also nice would be immunity to sacrifice room door spikes so you can't teleport into one and end a run because you can't leave

Manatee Cannon fucked around with this message at 22:41 on May 7, 2015

Grass Effect
Aug 10, 2014

Manatee Cannon posted:

edit: also nice would be immunity to sacrifice room door spikes so you can't teleport into one and end a run because you can't leave

that would affect flight as a whole, probably, so I doubt he'd change it... but it would be incredible if so.

either way, spectral tears will be a huge plus!

Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010



Bisnap uploaded a few videos of the BoI Eternal mod to youtube. Here's his first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkS6c-VLUg

Watch it (or don't) before clicking on this: Isaac with Guppy is going to win any game of Binding of Isaac. If the mod's based around always playing Isaac and getting Guppy, then that's fine, but I can't imagine anyone winning without it.

Mental Midget
Apr 18, 2005

We're glad you could play SQIV. As usual, you've been a real pantload.

Prop Wash posted:

Bisnap uploaded a few videos of the BoI Eternal mod to youtube. Here's his first:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctkS6c-VLUg

Watch it (or don't) before clicking on this: Isaac with Guppy is going to win any game of Binding of Isaac. If the mod's based around always playing Isaac and getting Guppy, then that's fine, but I can't imagine anyone winning without it.

One positive change I've noticed from Bisnap's videos is that you can now carry more than 5 flies from room to room, this helps Guppy, and by extension, Guppy's head and Mulligan be alot stronger than they were in vanilla. Another quirk I'm seeing is I think all pills are either neutral or good now? Bisnap hasn't gotten a bad pill in any of his vids, and I've never gotten a bad pill yet in the few runs I've done. Confirmation bias?

Edit: Nevermind, just got a Tears Down pill :/

Mental Midget fucked around with this message at 20:05 on May 8, 2015

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
Nah, there's just a lot less terrible pills in original Isaac. Pills really don't seem worth it in Rebirth.

Prop Wash
Jun 12, 2010



Dr. Fetus posted:

Nah, there's just a lot less terrible pills in original Isaac. Pills really don't seem worth it in Rebirth.

You did see the Shot Speed Up pill that got added to the eternal mod, right :v:


That one wasn't entirely florian though, I think those showed up in the community remix first.

The ideology eater
Oct 20, 2010

IT'S GARBAGE DAY AT WENDY'S FUCK YEAH WE EATIN GOOD TONIGHT
It's a real shame that the balance is so messed up and the hp is so ridiculously high because watching some videos it really seems like the new AI is generally hard in a pretty fun way.

The damage cap decision though really seals my decision to never ever try it out unless it's rebalanced. That's just such a colossally idiotic design decision.

Codiekitty
Nov 7, 2014

Am I just unlucky or does picking up the PHD cause pills to stop spawning?

IUG
Jul 14, 2007


You're unlucky, I just did this and got pills in my last run.

bucksmash
Mar 11, 2002

Codiekitty posted:

Am I just unlucky or does picking up the PHD cause pills to stop spawning?

Maybe just bad luck on the drop rate. PhD always tends to yield plenty of pills for me, although trolling sometimes like when I got about 7 R U A Wizard drops in a row

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



PhD doesn't change pill drop rate at all from what I can tell.

Codiekitty
Nov 7, 2014

Well, that must be the RNG's way of getting back at me for giving me Super Bandage Girl so easily, because every time I've gotten the PhD I'm lucky to get maybe one or two Explosive Diarrhea pills for the remainder of the run.

PostNouveau
Sep 3, 2011

VY till I die
Grimey Drawer
There's a damage cap? gently caress that. One of the big problems with the original was the lack of damage-up items anyway. Rebirth is a huge step up in that regard.

The ideology eater
Oct 20, 2010

IT'S GARBAGE DAY AT WENDY'S FUCK YEAH WE EATIN GOOD TONIGHT
This reddit user has been decompiling the eternal update patches and posting the changes if anyone is interested in what exactly the differences are.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
New Afterbirth update! Lost starts with Spectral Tears and D4. The D4 will have the roll into breakfasts bug fixed, so no more emptying out the item pools. He's also looking to reddit for balance changes, so I guess you can make some suggestions there if you want. And a hidden picture hints at a possible level editor?

Something else interesting, according to an interview, Dr. Fetus is getting rebuffed in Rebirth (or the next build that gets pushed out) because the initial nerf was unintended. A bug caused the really low initial damage. There's a similar bug that caused the Small Rock to not apply the speed down until after you got a speed changing item. I guess that explains why Bob's Curse brings Dr. Fetus back to Flash Isaac levels.

Kite Pride Worldwide
Apr 20, 2009


Dr. Fetus posted:

Dr. Fetus is getting rebuffed in Rebirth

I'm so happy for you! :3:

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Did Florian have a hand in that bat design? Jesus christ, 3x more health than the already beefy regular bats. Sounds unfun to the max.

D4 not rerolling into Breakfast is godly though, and actually makes the item fun.


Ed posted:

i REALLY enjoy the Lost’s design and want to push him to the masses
No poo poo, eh? :rolleyes:

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Sorry Ed, everyone hates the Lost and this update is not gonna change that. Wish he'd given it the D6 instead out of the available choices but oh well.

CJacobs
Apr 17, 2011

Reach for the moon!
On the one hand, I admire Edmund for sticking to his guns and making games that HE likes instead of just conforming it to what others think it should be like.

But on the other hand, gently caress The Lost.

Grapplejack
Nov 27, 2007

Your Computer posted:

Did Florian have a hand in that bat design? Jesus christ, 3x more health than the already beefy regular bats. Sounds unfun to the max.

D4 not rerolling into Breakfast is godly though, and actually makes the item fun.

No poo poo, eh? :rolleyes:

Fat bats look like they're extremely slow, which I'm totally okay with. I agree that 3x is a bit much though.

Also the flooded basement looks like it's another alt floor.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010

Grapplejack posted:

Fat bats look like they're extremely slow, which I'm totally okay with. I agree that 3x is a bit much though.

Also the flooded basement looks like it's another alt floor.

Fat bats that are extremely slow and have a Gravity well effect on your tears, making it easier to hit them (I hope it's just the tears though, or that room will be hell).

Kawalimus
Jan 17, 2008

Better Living Through Birding And Pessimism
Lost is a very good character once you stop stressing over unlocks. It changes the game significantly. Just don't obsess with winning and just try to get as far as you can. He's the only character I play in this anymore.

egg tats
Apr 3, 2010

Kawalimus posted:

Lost is a very good character once you stop stressing over unlocks. It changes the game significantly. Just don't obsess with winning and just try to get as far as you can. He's the only character I play in this anymore.

This is nuts because Eden exists but with the D4 (my favorite item) He'll be one of my most played characters too.

TheJadedOne
Aug 13, 2004
Just have the Lost start with a few lives. I think that will go a long way into making people want to play him more.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

AlexJade posted:

Just have the Lost start with a few lives. I think that will go a long way into making people want to play him more.

I think you're missing the point.

I haven't even bothered unlocking the Lost, I know I'm not good enough to get anywhere even though I clear the game most times I try. I wouldn't mind knowing if there's a way to unlock his items without getting a Steam ban, though, some of them look fun.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
Use someone else's save file, don't download the new one off the steam cloud?

QuantaStarFire
May 18, 2006


Grimey Drawer

Jedit posted:

I think you're missing the point.

I haven't even bothered unlocking the Lost, I know I'm not good enough to get anywhere even though I clear the game most times I try. I wouldn't mind knowing if there's a way to unlock his items without getting a Steam ban, though, some of them look fun.

You can just download a Platinum God file off the Internet if you want his items.

Your Computer
Oct 3, 2008




Grimey Drawer

Kawalimus posted:

Lost is a very good character once you stop stressing over unlocks. It changes the game significantly. Just don't obsess with winning and just try to get as far as you can. He's the only character I play in this anymore.

Ed McMillen spotted :catstare:

Realtalk though, I actually didn't have that much trouble unlocking everything with The Lost but I think the character is deeply, deeply flawed. Dying in a single hit means you can't rely on facerolling your way through the game and as such you'd think it would promote playing with skill in order to win. However, the game isn't fair at all, so dying as The Lost has less to do with how skilled you are and more about how lucky you are. It's like rolling a die fifty times, and if it lands on a 1 you fail. That's not fun, it's not skill and it's completely unrewarding.
The sad part is that the game doesn't even have that many unfair things. A couple of rooms and bosses are completely RNG as to whether you get hit or not, but otherwise the game is fairly balanced. Some enemy designs are also terrible, like the Splashers who shoot an Ipecac shot in a random direction as soon as you enter a room. Even a TAS bot couldn't possibly avoid taking damage in these situations, and that alone completely disqualifies The Lost as an interesting concept for me.

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

A nicer way to balance the lost would be to change how he plays between hard and normal. Normal should start with 3 lives, much like how ??? Has three soul hearts and the flying demon fellow whose name I forgot starts with 3 evil hearts. Hard mode should be no lives.

Araxxor
Oct 20, 2012

My disdain for you all knows no bounds.
He also has the problem where a bunch of items are outright useless to him. Although I guess having the D4 kind of fixes that, since now those items can just serve as D4 fodder. On the other hand, you might roll into those items, so that might not be much of an improvment.

YF-23
Feb 17, 2011

My god, it's full of cat!


D4 will give plenty of runs that make it to the caves a good number of chances to roll some near-certain win items like the Gnawed Leaf. Most of the time you'd be restarting to see if you get something good in the first couple floors then die because you got poo poo, but now all these lovely non-viable runs will have a much better chance of turning viable.

kemikalkadet
Sep 16, 2012

:woof:
Well i told myself I would never bother with it, but 350 hours of play in Ive unlocked the lost. RIP my k:d ratio.

Manatee Cannon
Aug 26, 2010



Dr. Fetus posted:

He also has the problem where a bunch of items are outright useless to him. Although I guess having the D4 kind of fixes that, since now those items can just serve as D4 fodder. On the other hand, you might roll into those items, so that might not be much of an improvment.

Yeah this is my problem with the D4 for The Lost. Yeah you can roll him into something better, but it's just as likely that you'll roll into something worse. That just compounds the problem with the character: it's too random to work. It's also just asking too much from nearly everyone to not ever get hit (which is why like 99% of the people that actually do complete it do so by gaming the RNG until they get the Holy Mantle or Dead Cat right away) and while that's fine in and of itself, you can't gate poo poo behind it that locks you out of completing the game without it becoming stupid and obnoxious. The Lost is a flawed concept that could work if it were done right and the game's systems allowed for it, but that's not the case as it is.

I really hope they don't gate any more items behind him because I'm not gonna do that poo poo again.

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Felix_Cat
Sep 15, 2008
Make it so that for the Lost any health ups get translated into a small stats boost, and picking up any kind of hearts gives him a large stats boost but it only lasts for the current room (maybe the current room and the next or something). That way you'd even get some use out of book of revelations/satanic bible.

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