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Len posted:Loeb did a far worse job than Millar did. Ask about his version of the Wasp. Still Commando no matter how marginal or now existent his contribution was. I'm also more willing to give Loeb a break due to him having to deal with really horrible poo poo around that time period. I mean it might be awful, but I'm willing to give it a pass. Also Agents of SMASH is fun.
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May 10, 2015 17:16
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gfanikf posted:Still Commando no matter how marginal or now existent his contribution was. Grief is a helluva thing but Ultimatum came out four years after Sam passed away and even then he disregarded drat near everything that happened before he started writing stuff in the Ultimate universe. Ultimate Blob was not an acne covered grotesque cannibal until he got ahold of him. Pyro was an xmen until SUPRISE he's evil now for some reason whatever. Then Magneto master of goddamn magnetism gets his arm cut off by a metal sword.
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May 10, 2015 17:49
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PaybackJack posted:The majority of the first Ultimate X-Men and Ultimate Fantastic Four are just largely retelling the 616 stories in a different way with somethings slightly altered. They really didn't go as far from the source as they could have. The reason I liked Ultimates is that it felt like a real 180 degree change from the 616 counterpart. Later after Loeb ruined everything we started getting more interesting stories in the other lines Nation X, the City, those were some really cool ideas that wouldn't work in 616 and helped make the Ultimate Universe feel a lot different. Spider-Man was always just retelling the same Spider-Man stories in a different light but focused on a "fresh" Spider-Man character that was dealing with them. The early ultimate universe stuff was really a blueprint for the Marvel Movies
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May 10, 2015 17:59
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I just picked up reading marvel when they rolled in marvel now but I got kind of behind. still pretty excited with this event. is anything out besides secret wars 1 that is tied to the event?
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May 10, 2015 17:59
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Edge & Christian posted:I misread Timeless Appeal's post and thought he was saying that Millar was claiming that his Ultimate X-Men was conceived as a pitch for a movie trilogy and then adapted to comics, which would be total bullshit, and something I could totally see Millar saying. But then I realize that wasn't what was being said. All of this led to reading some old Millar interviews and coming across this all-time classic: Still, I could have sworn that there was an interview with him in which he was asked how he would have done X-men 2 and he basically just described Return to Weapon X except with more sentinels. Len posted:Loeb did a far worse job than Millar did. Ask about his version of the Wasp. It's all awful apples and awful oranges.
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May 10, 2015 18:06
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zooted heh posted:I just picked up reading marvel when they rolled in marvel now but I got kind of behind. still pretty excited with this event. is anything out besides secret wars 1 that is tied to the event? Not yet, but nearly the entire line will be publishing Secret Wars tie-in books. The main series is all that you'll need to follow, but the rest of the stuff will expand on it.
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May 10, 2015 18:09
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Alucard Nacirema posted:The early ultimate universe stuff was really a blueprint for the Marvel Movies There's a lot of background Spider-Man retooling in both movie series that resemble Ultimate Marvel more than Original Marvel, but that's more Bendis folding in the Raimi Spider-Man series into his retelling than vice versa. Ditto the Ultimate X-Men folding the "All New All Different X-Men into the initial team, which was Millar responding to the first X-Men movie doing it already. I'm fuzzy on all of the details, but I know some people are saying the forthcoming Fantastic Four reboot is borrowing a lot from the Ultimate FF origin, but even then that in part bouncing off of the then-in-production film script. Beyond that, the film versions of all of the Ultimates characters bear very little semblance to the Marvel Cinematic Universe characters, outside of (I guess) Captain America's costume redesign and the fact that neither Ultimate nor Movie Tony Stark has quit drinking yet. Timeless Appeal posted:Yeah, I meant that they were designed to be very film like, not that they were actual pitches. Still, I could have sworn that there was an interview with him in which he was asked how he would have done X-men 2 and he basically just described Return to Weapon X except with more sentinels. There was that whole period where Millar kept dropping message board/online interview hints about how he was going to work on every single comic book movie coming out, from Spider-Man to Superman Returns, while also insisting that Eminem was all but locked up to star in Wanted. Then he had to dial it back when he got letters from the lawyers of Eminem and Warner Bros. and etc. It was a heady time on ol' Millarworld.
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May 10, 2015 18:23
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Timeless Appeal posted:
Len posted:Grief is a helluva thing but Ultimatum came out four years after Sam passed away and even then he disregarded drat near everything that happened before he started writing stuff in the Ultimate universe. Ultimate Blob was not an acne covered grotesque cannibal until he got ahold of him. Pyro was an xmen until SUPRISE he's evil now for some reason whatever. Yeah, I'm not saying it was quality writing just that I give him a pass on it vs say Millar.
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May 10, 2015 18:36
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Edge & Christian posted:Could you elaborate? Because really outside of "Nick Fury is Samuel L Jackson" and "Aunt May is an active senior human being and not a decrepit papier-mache mummy" I'm not really sure what the Marvel movies really took away from the Ultimate line. Avengers working as special forces under SHIELD, Hawkeye and Black Widow as the founding members.
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May 10, 2015 18:36
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fatherboxx posted:Avengers working as special forces under SHIELD, Hawkeye and Black Widow as the founding members. Also the name of Shield Headquarters. Name of the alien enemies. There are a few other small things too.
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May 10, 2015 18:40
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Edge & Christian posted:Could you elaborate? Because really outside of "Nick Fury is Samuel L Jackson" and "Aunt May is an active senior human being and not a decrepit papier-mache mummy" I'm not really sure what the Marvel movies really took away from the Ultimate line. That is impressive as the Ultimate Spider-man started in 2000 and the first Spider-man came out in 2002
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May 10, 2015 18:46
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They key word being small. Saying that it's a blue print is just silly.
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May 10, 2015 18:47
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Len posted:Grief is a helluva thing but Ultimatum came out four years after Sam passed away and even then he disregarded drat near everything that happened before he started writing stuff in the Ultimate universe. Ultimate Blob was not an acne covered grotesque cannibal until he got ahold of him. Pyro was an xmen until SUPRISE he's evil now for some reason whatever. I forgot about the Pyro stuff. That was actually a great reimagining of the character before he was turned evil for no reason and tried to rape someone if I recall. Also there was the problem of Joe Mad just drawing the 616 versions of all the characters by accident and them having to wrote in contrived explanations as to why mjolnir wasn't the hammer axe anymore and whatnot.
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May 10, 2015 19:06
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bobkatt013 posted:That is impressive as the Ultimate Spider-man started in 2000 and the first Spider-man came out in 2002 Per Wikipedia, by the point of the e-mails being shot back and forth between Jemas/Bendis/Quesada while developing Ultimate Spider-Man, Sam Raimi had already signed on to direct the 2002 film, had cast Tobey Maguire, and had a script that was pretty much plot/characterwise what ended up on film in 2002. Filming started in January 2001, by which point four issues of Ultimate Spider-Man had been published. So if the similarities are not just a huge coincidence, either Bill Jemas as publisher of Marvel Comics working on a major initiative to capture some of the film audience with his new publishing line had gotten a hold of some of the big picture plans for a film that his CCO was producing and tried to fold those into the comic outline he was writing or Sam Raimi changed his film mid-production to reflect the concepts in a moderately popular comic book.
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May 10, 2015 19:06
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Dacap posted:Also there was the problem of Joe Mad just drawing the 616 versions of all the characters by accident and them having to wrote in contrived explanations as to why mjolnir wasn't the hammer axe anymore and whatnot. That is the most amazing thing I have ever heard.
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May 10, 2015 19:12
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mr.capps posted:That is the most amazing thing I have ever heard. There also had to be a workaround when Greg Land was doing Ult FF and just drew regular Doom.
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May 10, 2015 19:19
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Dacap posted:Also there was the problem of Joe Mad just drawing the 616 versions of all the characters by accident and them having to wrote in contrived explanations as to why mjolnir wasn't the hammer axe anymore and whatnot. Do you remember what those explanations were?
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May 10, 2015 19:20
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Nycticeius posted:Do you remember what those explanations were? Yeah, Thor had an armory of different weapons. It was dumb.
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May 10, 2015 19:28
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I'm like 90% positive Doom wasn't even in the Ultimate Universe at the time. Pretty sure he hosed off to save the day and close the zombie universe portal.
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May 10, 2015 19:31
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Edge & Christian posted:The plot outline of the first dozen or so issues of Ultimate Spider-Man was literally written out by Bill Jemas and shopped around to different writers. It was reworked considerably (there was a whole subplot about Norman mixing Oz into Gatorade to help Harry's football team win the big game?) but a lot of the things in the movie (that Osborn's company was doing the experiment that gave Spider-Man powers, Osborn as the first villain, Oscorp being implied to be the source of other villains, Osborn experimenting on himself, jumping straight to Mary Jane being around at the beginning, etc) was in the outline that Bill Jemas wrote up in the summer of 2000. All of this was reprinted in a number of places, I know it's in the back of the first Ultimate Spider-Man OSHC and probably elsewhere. Basically both Stan and Lee were invited to come in to see some early production stuff on Spider-Man. They ask them their opinion and Lee just says, "You're doing a swell job. Keep up the good work!" But Bendis actually gives some criticism in regards to Spidey having more quips and the Goblin costume looking weird. The exec in the room gets super defensive and lectures him on how much that costume cost. Basically Bendis learned that Stan Lee isn't just a polite old man but someone who is really good at navigating bullshit like that. So, yes, it should be noted that Bendis was actually brought in to give some advice on the film. But he was completely disregarded.
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May 10, 2015 19:31
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Len posted:I'm like 90% positive Doom wasn't even in the Ultimate Universe at the time. Pretty sure he hosed off to save the day and close the zombie universe portal. It was later revealed that it was Sue's mom that was in the armor that caused Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum.
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May 10, 2015 19:34
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bobkatt013 posted:It was later revealed that it was Sue's mom that was in the armor that caused Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum. That's...that's a thing.  I jumped off the Ultimate Universe sometime around Hickman leaving. Sounds like I didn't miss anything.
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May 10, 2015 19:35
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They also threw out a lot of the designs that made the characters unique, like Iron Man's armor which was an interesting redesign that artists just gave up on and started aping the 616 suit or the movies. Frank Cho literally just drew the exact suit from the first movie and palette swapped it to be "stealth".
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May 10, 2015 19:53
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bobkatt013 posted:It was later revealed that it was Sue's mom that was in the armor that caused Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum. I can't tell if you're joking or not
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May 10, 2015 19:56
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hope and vaseline posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not He's not. Also Ben Grimm kills her. (then marries her daughter)
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May 10, 2015 19:59
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Timeless Appeal posted:They key word being small. Saying that it's a blue print is just silly. It was a major influence on the new fantastic four film and presumably the next spider man film as well. It was a huge influence on Avengers and the early films. The first Cap Movie looked like it was lifted straight from the flashback scenes in Millar and Brian Hitches Ultimates run. Bendis and Millar even get a special thanks at the end of like every marvel movie
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May 10, 2015 20:06
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:He's not. Also Ben Grimm kills her. I'm glad you guys are here to provide synopsis because I think if I read these myself I'd quit.
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May 10, 2015 20:33
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There was also finding out the Thing's rock skin was just a cocoon for him getting purple energy powers, but then in one of the later evil reed stories he was able to transform into the rocky Thing again with no explanation or reaction from anyone in the book despite never having happened before.
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May 10, 2015 20:43
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Len posted:Then Magneto master of goddamn magnetism gets his arm cut off by a metal sword. I like how he gets his arm chopped off, then mocks Valkyrie for using a metal weapon, and it's like "uh, she did take your arm off, now is probably not the best time for smugness". Of course, since it's a Loeb book, he's all just "grrr" and moving around normally rather than "ow my arm came off".
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May 10, 2015 21:04
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site posted:I'm glad you guys are here to provide synopsis because I think if I read these myself I'd quit. Well turns out the reason Ultimate Reed goes evil is because Ultimate Kang (actually Sue Storm from the future) tells him bad things are coming (Age of Ultron's time fuckery aka Galactus) so he needs to step up and save the world, collect the infinity gauntlets, and stop it all from happening. Of course, the way to go about it is destroying part of Europe, killing the President (and congress) and killing almost everyone in the process but by stopping him poo poo he was trying to prevent happens and Kang runs aways. Then we get the wonderful (poo poo) known as Cataclysm where Kitty Pride punches Galactus in the face.
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May 10, 2015 21:06
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I stopped reading the Ultimate line after about 18 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man, and 12 issues of Ultimate X-Men. Nothing I'm reading here makes me feel like that was a mistake.
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May 10, 2015 21:07
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irlZaphod posted:I stopped reading the Ultimate line after about 18 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man, and 12 issues of Ultimate X-Men. Nothing I'm reading here makes me feel like that was a mistake. You hosed up royally with Ultimate Spider-Man, it's one of Marvel's best books of the last decade (and change). Although I recently heard it's taken a bit of a downturn, the first 150 issues plus are very good. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 22:42 on May 10, 2015 |
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May 10, 2015 21:17
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irlZaphod posted:I stopped reading the Ultimate line after about 18 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man, and 12 issues of Ultimate X-Men. Nothing I'm reading here makes me feel like that was a mistake. Hickman's Ultimates is pretty cool but has a problem of him ditching out right at the end because he was given the green light for Avengers.
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May 10, 2015 21:17
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Kitty Pryde punching Galactus in the face will never not sound awesome.
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May 10, 2015 21:46
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irlZaphod posted:I stopped reading the Ultimate line after about 18 issues of Ultimate Spider-Man, and 12 issues of Ultimate X-Men. Nothing I'm reading here makes me feel like that was a mistake. Ultimate Spider-Man is the definitive take on the character
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May 10, 2015 22:24
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Skwirl posted:Kitty Pryde punching Galactus in the face will never not sound awesome. Oh and it was...the asking for samples scene earlier was funny too.
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May 10, 2015 22:43
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The only completely original think Ultimates did was a thing called Ultimate Adventures, and that was a Batman pastiche. Still, it was pretty good for what it was. It was actually part of a bet between Jemas and some other guys over who could make the most successful new series series. Jemas' contribution? Marville.
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May 11, 2015 00:16
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I like how he gets his arm chopped off, then mocks Valkyrie for using a metal weapon, and it's like "uh, she did take your arm off, now is probably not the best time for smugness". Fool! Doom does not need arms! 
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May 11, 2015 00:52
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Ah, yes, U Decide, which ultimately ended up just being PR for Peter David's Captain Marvel.
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May 11, 2015 00:52
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Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that there are already books released that take place after the results of Secret War. Is there a list somewhere of which those are?
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May 11, 2015 04:11
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