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Yeah, the Sansa plot makes no sense. Not only from LF's perspective, but also from the Bolton's in a world where their betrayal of Robb is common knowledge. "Oh, we betrayed your entire family but you are totally willing to marry Ramsay, and everyone else will totally think it legitimate?" Not to mention the double crossing of the lannisters. If they are too weak to send troops north, what is keeping the boltons in power? Either the boltons are strong enough to defy the iron throne, in which case they wouldnt need sansa, or they need the iron throne to back them up, in which case marrying sansa would make no sense.
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May 10, 2015 20:15
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joepinetree posted:Either the boltons are strong enough to defy the iron throne, in which case they wouldnt need sansa, or they need the iron throne to back them up, in which case marrying sansa would make no sense. Unless Sansa makes them strong enough to defy the throne. Maybe Roose knows poo poo has gone crazy and has just decided to seize any opportunity he can.If the worst came to the worst he could send her back to Cersei to be killed.
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May 10, 2015 20:32
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MrFlibble posted:Unless Sansa makes them strong enough to defy the throne. Maybe Roose knows poo poo has gone crazy and has just decided to seize any opportunity he can.If the worst came to the worst he could send her back to Cersei to be killed. Which would only happen if the other Northern houses rallied to their side because of Sansa (as opposed to thinking Sansa was being manipulated/coerced and trying to free her), which makes no sense in a world where their betrayal is well known (and how does sending her back to Cersei to be killed after marrying her to his son improve his situation, either with the iron throne or the north?). And that still doesn't explain them not seeing the double cross from a mile away. The answer is that it is a tv show trying to greatly simplify a much more complex story, but it still makes no sense.
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May 10, 2015 20:41
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Bolton's not going to defy the throne, but they're not getting any help from the throne either. The Boltons are still in power because they have one of the few remaining not decimated armies in the north, and they're allied with another. Sansa won't clear up all the emnity the other northern lords feel, but it will go a long ways to help legitimize the Boltons position. I don't see why Sansa's feelings on the matter are that important anyways, it's an arranged marriage like any other, but there's a difference between arranging an unhappy marriage for a noble lady, and straight up abusing her. Cersei would like Sansa back maybe, but it's not her top priority. She hasn't even mentioned Sansa all season. Assuming the Lannisters come out of this alive at all, they'll be in no position to make demands, and I think they'd be willing to just let her stay up there, rather than do anything about it. Bolton doesn't strike me as a king in the north revolutionary. He's going to solidify his power around him, and then deal with the iron throne and whoever is left in the south when they're doing loving themselves. Most of the changes in the show, (yeah yeah, Ros is the exception) seem to be aimed at reducing the already loving absurd number of named characters we're supposed to keep track of. While there have been missteps, overall I think this is a very smart decision by the show makers.
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May 10, 2015 20:54
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Whats your fantasy end game line up? This is mine: King: Jon Snow Queen: Daenerys Hand of the King: Tyrion Master of Whispers: Varys Master of Coin: Davos Master of Ships: Asha Greyjoy Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Brienne Grand Maester: Samwell Tarly Warden of the North: Sansa. Married to.... uh. Anyone? Hopefully NOT Littlefinger. Maybe an Umber or something? Warden of the East: Who cares Warden of the South: Trystane Martell. Married to Myrcella I guess. Warden of the West: Tyrion. Married to ANYONE BUT loving PENNY! (So god help me if it ends up being Penny) Some of these are a longshot, like Sam as Maester since I think it takes years and years for him to forge his chain and he hasn't even started yet. Asha and Davos are kind of longshots too, but god drat would they be a great pick for those roles.
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May 10, 2015 21:06
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Doesn't Stannis dislike Varys, Littlefinger and other people like them? I kind of want LF to go to Stannis, tell him how he helped Sansa escape King's Landing and put the Vale, the Riverlands and the North under Stannis...and then Stannis executing him for his many crimes.
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May 10, 2015 21:11
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Is there any way to make HBO Go run less like absolute dog poo poo? Because holy poo poo every single video I try to watch on that runs on an average of 10 FPS while the audio runs normally.
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May 10, 2015 21:16
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:Whats your fantasy end game line up? This is mine: Sam'll stay with the Watch. Asha'll probably be ruling the Iron Islands, since Theon definitely can't (he can't even produce an heir) and all the alternative kings are heels the plot won't leave in power. Davos won't outlive Stannis since his character has no purpose without him, and will probably die if/when Stannis finally has his Off The Deep End moment and becomes an endgame antagonist. I also don't expect both Jon and Dany to survive, and them marrying might be a little too incest-y for the show. Jon's already the "song of Ice and Fire" since he's a mixture of Stark and Targ blood and can handle the destined hero poo poo, so that'll probably leave Dany alive to sit the throne if there still is one when this is all over with.
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May 10, 2015 21:25
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Yeah I'd imagine if anything it'll come down to Jon vs Dany for the throne. Shireen wins.
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May 10, 2015 21:40
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counterfeitsaint posted:Bolton's not going to defy the throne, but they're not getting any help from the throne either. The Boltons are still in power because they have one of the few remaining not decimated armies in the north, and they're allied with another. Sansa won't clear up all the emnity the other northern lords feel, but it will go a long ways to help legitimize the Boltons position. I don't see why Sansa's feelings on the matter are that important anyways, it's an arranged marriage like any other, but there's a difference between arranging an unhappy marriage for a noble lady, and straight up abusing her. Cersei would like Sansa back maybe, but it's not her top priority. She hasn't even mentioned Sansa all season. Assuming the Lannisters come out of this alive at all, they'll be in no position to make demands, and I think they'd be willing to just let her stay up there, rather than do anything about it. Bolton doesn't strike me as a king in the north revolutionary. He's going to solidify his power around him, and then deal with the iron throne and whoever is left in the south when they're doing loving themselves. You're referring only to show Roose, right? Because it's already been alluded to in the books that Roose actually wants there to be a King in the North, he just wants it to be him rather than Robb. I mean, it's not a sure thing, but the possibility has already been presented.
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May 10, 2015 22:10
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joepinetree posted:Which would only happen if the other Northern houses rallied to their side because of Sansa (as opposed to thinking Sansa was being manipulated/coerced and trying to free her), which makes no sense in a world where their betrayal is well known (and how does sending her back to Cersei to be killed after marrying her to his son improve his situation, either with the iron throne or the north?). And that still doesn't explain them not seeing the double cross from a mile away. The answer is that it is a tv show trying to greatly simplify a much more complex story, but it still makes no sense. Sansa is a hostage. With the Boltons in control of her they know the northern lords can't move against them without risking her since she's the last living Stark as far as anyone is concerned.
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May 10, 2015 22:35
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PostNouveau posted:Wouldn't Stannis be super pissed at him for what he did to Ned? I don't think LF can be anywhere near him. I'm not sure Stannis even knows Littlefinger betrayed Ned. Stannis repeatedly states that Ned died defending his claim, but I don't think he ever pins the blame on Littlefinger. GuyDudeBroMan posted:Whats your fantasy end game line up? This is mine: Yeah, this definitely feels like an optimistic best case scenario. I like it, but knowing GRRM the final composition of the Small Council will probably be a lot more mixed. My fantasy ending would be as follows: Stannis captures the Iron Throne at last, only to be faced with Dany and her dragons, and ends up bending the knee to the greater power because he realises (1) he can't win against dragons and (2) the Targaryens' legitimacy actually takes precedence over his own. Alternatively, he'll get burnt to a crisp. At any rate, if he does submit to Dany, he might end up in an important military function. I can definitely see Tyrion as Hand. Davos could just as well be Master of Ships. Sam is too young for Grand Maester - maybe this elusive Marwin the Mage fellow would do? For Master of Coin she could appoint a Martell (since they support her claim, after all), someone thoughtful like Doran. At any rate, I'll play your game, so here's my fantasy ending: King-Consort: Jon Snow Queen: Daenerys Targaryen Hand of the King: Tyrion Lannister Master of Whispers: ? (in the novels, Varys supports "Aegon VI", so I doubt the show would have him survive) Master of Coin: Doran Martell Master of Ships: Davos Seaworth Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Brienne Grand Maester: Marwin the Mage Warden of the North: Rickon Stark, with Sansa acting has warden-regent until he comes of age Warden of the East: : Yohn Royce Warden of the South: Trystane Martell Warden of the West:: Jaime Lannister (redeemed) Lord Commander of the Night's Watch: Alliser Thorne
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May 10, 2015 22:43
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Everyone seems pretty certain that shireen is getting burned and I agree that will likely happen. If melly, selyse, and shireen are all going south with stannis, maybe its stannis dying that is the catalyst for this though. maybe?
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May 10, 2015 22:55
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You guys are forgetting the master of ceremonies  (Obviously gonna be our boy Sallahdor)
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May 10, 2015 23:09
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I'm betting a lot of the positions which don't matter as much to the plot (even if they matter a lot in Westeros) will have different people holding them in the show than in the books, and since those books may be a long time coming the show versions might be the only canon we have to work with for a while. Arianne Martell, for example, has a decent chance of surviving to rule Dorne, while in the show she doesn't exist, and if the show ever gets around to revisiting the Iron Islands Asha will pretty much have to end up inheriting - even if they actually bother with an uncle or two she's the established not-monstrous Greyjoy. In fact, that might be a way to predict certain characters' chances of survival and future fates, on the assumption that someone will have to survive to fill each of these posts by the end of the show. Trystane dying would leave no clear heir to Dorne and as much as the show's been willing to drop whole kingdoms down the memory hole (How're the Riverlands doing? Eh.) I don't think they'll want to paint themselves into such a corner that they wouldn't be able to resolve it later if they wanted. It's kind of the same way Rickon exists to be a backup-Stark, so his siblings can have dangerous adventures and we can't hand-wave their survival as "well of COURSE they survived, we need a Stark left over for the epilogue".
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May 11, 2015 00:00
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The show will be "canon" in that it will bear a passing similarity to what we might see in the books but most likely not.
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May 11, 2015 00:26
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GuyDudeBroMan posted:Whats your fantasy end game line up? This is mine: My fantasy ending: King: The High Sparrow Queen: Defunct Hand of the King: Cersei Master of Whispers: Ramsay Master of Coin: Littlefinger Master of Ships: Reek Lord Commander of the Kingsguard: Ser Robert Strong Grand Maester: Qyburn Warden of the North: Lady Stoneheart Warden of the East: Lollys Warden of the South: Taena of Myr Warden of the West: Lancel
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May 11, 2015 00:33
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computer parts posted:The show will be "canon" in that it will bear a passing similarity to what we might see in the books but most likely not. The show will be "canon" because it will get a conclusion, but the books will not. Maybe after GRRM dies, but by then the show will be the outline the finishing author will have to use.
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May 11, 2015 00:38
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Solice Kirsk posted:The show will be "canon" because it will get a conclusion, but the books will not. Maybe after GRRM dies, but by then the show will be the outline the finishing author will have to use. So if GRRM released the end of the series right now, the show would no longer be canon?
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May 11, 2015 00:48
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I'm getting an ending to this poo poo I started reading back in 2003 so I'm pretty frankly cool with it either way. Martin dies and the books don't get an ending, or Martin lives and the books get an ending. Either way, the show gets an ending and I get to see a general idea of how this story wraps up. I'm cool with that. This isn't a Deadwood situation, thank Christ. Worst case scenario, we get a Dark Tower: moments of brilliance surrounded by total retardation.
Asbury fucked around with this message at 00:56 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 00:52
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Watching last week's episode again and the Sand Snakes are on. Wow, that was worse than the first time I saw them. Please never let Dave Hill write again. Between the Sand Snakes scene that I haven't seen one positive comment on, the Littlefinger explanation that we've been talking about that makes no sense, the laughable Barristan/Unsullied scene, the awkward clumsy dialogue throughout, I think that episode may have been the worst written of the series.
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May 11, 2015 01:51
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I like that the lead Sand Snake tells her backstory to her own sisters
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May 11, 2015 01:56
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Yeah I just tried to defend everything except the sand snakes to a friend. Yep no that was actually really bad all around
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May 11, 2015 01:57
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oatgan posted:I like that the lead Sand Snake tells her backstory to her own sisters The scene was such a junior high-school drama club monologue it's ridiculous.
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May 11, 2015 01:58
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The short-haired one is cute though.
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May 11, 2015 01:58
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Watching last week's episode again and the Sand Snakes are on. Wow, that was worse than the first time I saw them. Please never let Dave Hill write again. Between the Sand Snakes scene that I haven't seen one positive comment on, the Littlefinger explanation that we've been talking about that makes no sense, the laughable Barristan/Unsullied scene, the awkward clumsy dialogue throughout, I think that episode may have been the worst written of the series. The Stannis and Shireen scene was well-received, at least.
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May 11, 2015 02:00
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Unknown territory for everyone! Woo!
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May 11, 2015 02:02
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I'm MAD about greyscale!!
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May 11, 2015 02:02
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Olly is definitely stabbing Jon. They're really pushing that he will be unhappy with Jon's reforms with the wildlings. I hope he nods afterwards.
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May 11, 2015 02:03
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Rickon...?
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May 11, 2015 02:04
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crossposting from the nonspoiler thread: oh hell yes 
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May 11, 2015 02:05
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Burn them all, Dany.
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May 11, 2015 02:06
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At least Dany recognizes how bullshit Barristan's death is.
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May 11, 2015 02:07
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Surprised he was just outright dead. Guess they just did the throat-slitting tease for suspense.
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May 11, 2015 02:08
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Yea burn you slaving holding fucker! Burn like a ford pinto!
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May 11, 2015 02:08
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In It For The Tank posted:At least Dany recognizes how bullshit Barristan's death is. ha
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May 11, 2015 02:08
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This sounds like a good idea.
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May 11, 2015 02:09
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Definitely not something the mad king would have done, nope.
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May 11, 2015 02:09
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hahaha holy poo poo, they're really turning her into an insane dumbass
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May 11, 2015 02:09
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Crispy!
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May 11, 2015 02:09
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