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That Carnifex shoulder-checking the Land Raider takes me back to the scribbles I'd do in my math textbook in the best way  The things have/had the Living Battering Ram rule, they may as well have designs to take advantage of that. That upright gait made its way into the Hive Tyrant, even if it isn't quite as bulky.
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May 10, 2015 23:56
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Strength of Many posted:Killing time at work, the most traditional game of all, and barfed up some tyranid design ideas. Should be relevant to the topic so hopefully im not causing any problems here. This is very rad I draw scrunts myself
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May 11, 2015 00:49
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May 11, 2015 03:37
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SRM posted:I've been wondering this myself, since robots and AI are forbidden in 40k. Men of Iron, Men of Stone, and the Golden Men are my favorite area of 40k fluff. There are a number of interpretations, but this is my favorite helped in many ways to a guy who basically wrote a thesis on this after digging through all the various materials. Its fun because its so cryptic. The Golden Men are, most likely, what we would consider to be the future humans of earth. "The Golden Race spreads across the face of Old Earth, multiplying and establishing Order and Civilization on the anarchy of Nature." Then they create the Men of Stone. "In time, the Second Men of the Stone Race appear, and in their wake come many miracles of technology that strengthen the Stone Men's power, but are also harnessed by those of the Golden Race. Although physically inferior to the Golden Race and not of philosophical temperament and disposition. the Stone Men have in them the conjurations of great artifice and and mechanisms. The Golden Race looks to the stars to expand their dominion. The Stone Race builds great machines of power that send both the Men of Stone and the Men of Gold into the Ether. However, once the burgeoning race of Mankind has taken its first steps into the greater cosmos, the Golden Race dwindles in influence through their dependence on the artifices of the Stone Race. The Golden Age comes to an end, and the Stone Men prevail." There are many ways to read into this, but the one I favor is that the Men of Stone are not machines or beings at all. They are, in some capacity, advanced AI. Humanity uses them to slingshot ahead in technology and they become used in everyday life. A description of them which right now I can't find reinforces this- calling out how they were not of the same physical temperament as Golden Men and that the idea of being locked into a single body was 'beastly' to them. Anyway, as they have no bodies of their own, they create the Men of Iron to help them conquer the stars for the Golden Men. "For whatever reasons and differences in ideology, the Stone Men and the Iron Men fall to warring with each other. The Iron Men are possessed of no Soul, an anathema to any true Man. The Stone Men, in their final acts of self-preservation, annihilate the Iron Men who have turned from ally to foe, and even those of the Iron Race who retain their former loyalties to their one-time masters are destroyed in the fiery crucible of battle." Why can the Admech have robots? Hell if I know. It seems that some of their robots, despite being pre-programmed, are really close to being actual sentient beings. In the Horus Heresy books if you roll poorly enough your robots will gain sentience and kill the poo poo out of everything around them. You can also make them into `paragons of metal` who are essentially sentient loyal robots... but if you try to force them to do something, there is a really high chance they'll rebel against you. I don't know why, but this has always been my favorite part of 40k fluff. Definitely contributed to my love for 30k when forgeworld actually brought some of this stuff back to the fold.
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May 11, 2015 04:53
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The whole Men of Iron storyline in 40k always reminded me of the Butlerian Jihad against AI in Dune before the terrible Dune prequels.
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May 11, 2015 06:05
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It's still entirely possible that there's a brain in a skull somewhere in the robit suits, isn't there? Servitors are basically mindless single task robots, but sidestep the whole AI issue by being built around some poor sap's brain. It's 40k. Even if you can't see it, there's probably a skull in there somewhere.
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May 11, 2015 06:21
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All of this talk of AI is reminding me of the more obscure pieces of 40k lore, and as someone who came into the game in 2nd edition I was really surprised when I thumbed through the After Word in my friend's rogue trader book: Something that isn't brought up in official writing anymore is that the whole Gothic aesthetic of 40k was mentioned in the rogue trader book as being for our (the player's) benefit - it conveyed to us how this society was regressed, culturally and scientifically, from a utopia that was itself many thousands of years past our own way points. Meaning that there aren't actually space ships that look like castles, and High Gothic isn't actually latin(ish?), it's all just a metaphor for a post trans-humanist apocalypse. But, understandably, everyone plays the space Gothic themes straight faced and the idea of high Gothic actually being a mix of Russian, Chinese, and Latin has fallen out of favor. Which is for the the best, the idea of everything in 40k being symbolic is interesting but you can't build an entire universe of cannon on something so subjective. Still, sometimes I like to take a step back and try to imagine what all these skulls and steeples might otherwise look like (something more generic, probably).
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May 11, 2015 06:27
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this makes me want to try and make one from the hive tyrant kit
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May 11, 2015 07:00
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Actually I always thought that The Golden Men , Stone Men , and Iron Men, was now and that the Stone men were computers which led to robots, which started the war. Like the Golden men were us not to far into the future creating computers that led to the creation of the Iron Men who we fought. Also, I like that the Dark Age of Technology is not actually the "Dark Age", it's what the Imperium refers to it as because it was the height of human achievement and it's a bad "time period" to the Imperium because mankind worshipped science as god. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 07:04 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 07:00
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Hollismason posted:Actually I always thought that The Golden Men , Stone Men , and Iron Men, was now and that the Stone men were computers which led to robots, which started the war. Like the Golden men were us not to far into the future creating computers that led to the creation of the Iron Men who we fought. I thought it was dark age because all the knowledge was for the most part, lost. So they have no REAL idea what everything was and what it did, hence the importance of the STC's.
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May 11, 2015 07:08
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Squifferific posted:It's still entirely possible that there's a brain in a skull somewhere in the robit suits, isn't there? Servitors are basically mindless single task robots, but sidestep the whole AI issue by being built around some poor sap's brain. It's 40k. Even if you can't see it, there's probably a skull in there somewhere. You're thinking of the lorica thallax:   quote:The Lorica encloses the major organs, nervous system and cerebrum, but entirely replaces the skeletal structure and limbs with armoured bionics powered by an internal reactor-core. Surgical excision of the subject’s pain sensors, emotions, and normal human sensory apparatus and the agony caused by the Lorica’s implantation, leaves the Thallax a cold, calculating killing machine (albeit one that retains a degree of independent thought).
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May 11, 2015 07:15
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This owns, I like it a lot
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May 11, 2015 08:12
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OhDearGodNo posted:e: does anyone know where to get a replacement scatter die? I think my cat ate the one I have. I have loads because I am
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May 11, 2015 09:50
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Warlord head. Neat. 
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May 11, 2015 11:01
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Hollismason posted:Actually I always thought that The Golden Men , Stone Men , and Iron Men, was now and that the Stone men were computers which led to robots, which started the war. Like the Golden men were us not to far into the future creating computers that led to the creation of the Iron Men who we fought. This wouldn't work because it's considered the dark age during the per-Heresy era when the Emperor is trying to bring back science. ijyt posted:Warlord head. Neat.  ^ pictured -- a Stone Man DirtyRobot fucked around with this message at 12:21 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 12:18
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double post
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May 11, 2015 12:20
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Sykic posted:You can't say this and not post pictures.  (She needs a base, too)
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May 11, 2015 13:09
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Her? She? What chapter are you doing? I don't see the Doc Thunder chest sigils.
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May 11, 2015 13:27
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will blow your mind.
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Amazon Saints, who are a bit lacking in fluff right now as I scrapped wha t I had for them. Thinking of giving her a cape as Captain Sophia Taurus, captains not getting asscans be damned, though I may do that with a different mini. I got the name from a random generator, heh. I like having both women AND men as spacefuture supersoldiers, plus it makes grogs mad, so I tend to refer to them with female pronouns. A couple of them ma y end up with female heads (if I even do any without helmets), but that's all the conversion work they'll get! Hm, actually, I think I will do someone else as the Captain. Probably without helmet, in proper 40k fashion! Maybe. Not sure! I also need to get some Grey Knight bits so I can do Raza Oberdan, another of my 'special characters'. She has a power polearm and is cool. I'm not planning on actually fielding these minis; just painting up a little force and fluffing them up because I enjoy that! Esser-Z fucked around with this message at 14:41 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 13:59
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i'm assembling an ironstrider, and i wanna do it with the sydonian dragoon kit. Any reasons NOT to? can't see myself magnetizing for swapping since it's a rather delicate and complicated model. Plus, the taser lance with joust rules just own
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May 11, 2015 14:37
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Definitely doing a different Termie as Captain Taurus. I forgot that Captains never wear helmets ever, it is the Law. Paired lighting claws, cause claws are cool. Cape, one of my nice female heads. Think I'll get her assembled tonight.
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May 11, 2015 14:55
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Esser-Z posted:I am way behind on this thread, so I'm going to reply way late! I've only actually completed one of them, and she's a fairly early model in my painting career, so I'm not entirely happy with her. Going to be working on some more not too far off, though! Your monitor looks dirty.
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May 11, 2015 15:01
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Major Spag posted:Your monitor looks dirty. It was! That was my old laptop, no longer in use. It was something like five and a half years old at that point and running on borrowed time, so I got lax on my upkeep!
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May 11, 2015 15:06
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Improbable Lobster posted:The whole Men of Iron storyline in 40k always reminded me of the Butlerian Jihad against AI in Dune before the terrible Dune prequels. Also the Necrons might have originally been made as surviving Men of Iron. Jack B Nimble posted:All of this talk of AI is reminding me of the more obscure pieces of 40k lore, and as someone who came into the game in 2nd edition I was really surprised when I thumbed through the After Word in my friend's rogue trader book: Actually it's still canon that High Gothic is written as fake-Latin and Low Gothic as English purely as a translation convention. It's possible that Low Gothic as a single language doesn't even exist per se but politically is maintained as part of the whole "unity of man" thing (see: Chinese, which has "dialects" which are often mutually unintelligible but you are not allowed to call them separate languages because this might encourage local/ethnic separatists)
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May 11, 2015 17:00
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Improbable Lobster posted:The whole Men of Iron storyline in 40k always reminded me of the Butlerian Jihad against AI in Dune before the terrible Dune prequels. It's clearly a Dune reference. The early 40K fluff draws heavily from the series.
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May 11, 2015 17:12
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PeterWeller posted:It's clearly a Dune reference. The early 40K fluff draws heavily from the series. And by this, we mean 'Shamelessly, hilariously plagiarises', right? Rogue Trader era Space Marines might as well be Sardaukar word for word. E: I mean, look at the start of the Wikipedia entry - Wikipedia posted:The Imperial Sardaukar are soldier-fanatics loyal to the Padishah Emperors of House Corrino, who rule the Known Universe (the Imperium) for over 10,000 years until the events of the first novel in the series, Dune.[2][3][4] The key to House Corrino's hold on the Imperial throne, the Sardaukar troops are the foremost soldiers in the universe and are feared by all. They are secretly trained on the inhospitable Imperial Prison Planet of Salusa Secundus: the harsh conditions there ensure that only the strongest and most "ferocious" men survive.
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May 11, 2015 17:21
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Which makes GW's legal bullying over IP loving hilarious.
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May 11, 2015 17:27
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Shockeh posted:And by this, we mean 'Shamelessly, hilariously plagiarises', right? Rogue Trader era Space Marines might as well be Sardaukar word for word. Yeah, but to be fair, shameless and hilariously plagiarized settings are the industry standard. D&D did not bequeath a heritage of original ideas and creative world building.
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May 11, 2015 17:40
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To be fair, Sardaukar resemble Janissaries or Immortals so... Inspiration likely comes from a mix of Sardaukar and Praetorian Guard. Boon fucked around with this message at 17:46 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 17:42
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Yeah, that's also true. Herbert's empire is based heavily on the Golden Age of Islam, which is the source of a lot of his faux-Arabic terms. Also, while we're talking sources, that men gold/iron/stone stuff references Hesiod's ages of men.
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May 11, 2015 17:51
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It's not actually iron. It's a gold-titanium alloy.
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May 11, 2015 17:53
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FrostyPox posted:Which makes GW's legal bullying over IP loving hilarious. Not really, trademark is pretty different from other forms of IP.
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May 11, 2015 18:03
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Boon posted:To be fair, Sardaukar resemble Janissaries or Immortals so... Well eventually the Ottoman Janissaries became weird and corrupt too, like the Praetorians. And before the Janissaries there were the ghulam of the Safavid era. Possibly also the source of the term ghola, along with maybe the arabic term ghoul and the hebrew golem. Though maybe it's just ghoul in arabic. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 18:11 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 18:06
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Yeah, suing someone for using the word "Space Marine" is totally sensible when everything you have is an amalgamation of Dune and Judge Dredd
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May 11, 2015 18:43
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FrostyPox posted:Yeah, suing someone for using the word "Space Marine" is totally sensible when everything you have is an amalgamation of Dune and Judge Dredd It actually is if there's a chance customers will confuse them. Apple is a pretty old word but you still can't sell electronics with Apple in the name.
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May 11, 2015 18:50
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I love that art. Heres my bored at work art http://imgur.com/b556ZbY gently caress you too phone posting Hihohe fucked around with this message at 18:58 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 18:51
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 So confusing
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May 11, 2015 18:57
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Mange Mite posted:It actually is if there's a chance customers will confuse them. Apple is a pretty old word but you still can't sell electronics with Apple in the name. Right, but "apple" isn't also a generic electronics term. You couldn't trademark "apple" for selling the fruit! I couldn't trademark a computer brand called Laptop!
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May 11, 2015 18:58
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FrostyPox posted:
The standard is for the average consumer, which is either a 13-year old or a 13-year-old's clueless parents. Definitely winnable in court, and honestly not that far off IRL either, especially since it's not even a physical book with an easily seen cover and associated trade dress. Esser-Z posted:Right, but "apple" isn't also a generic electronics term. You couldn't trademark "apple" for selling the fruit! I couldn't trademark a computer brand called Laptop! How many books/book series exist on the market that have "Space Marine" in the title? Nothing on the market right now, probably none for a very long time (if ever). And you can in fact claim trade mark on generic terms if they're distinctive enough in use. Most people don't understand trademark. I can go on if you really want but it's not at all silly and there's been far more ridiculous cases that actually succeeded. OXBALLS DOT COM fucked around with this message at 19:19 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 19:12
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FrostyPox posted:
That looks like the pretty boy superhuman guy, yeah. Even has the red.
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May 11, 2015 19:14
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