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ANIME AKBAR posted:I'm an electrical engineer who wants to do a short production run of a gizmo I made (like 100-1000), but I'm stuck on the enclosure which is a big cost driver. Initially I was planning to go with an ABS plastic case with custom machining (I was getting quotes $7 per piece for 1000 pieces), but recently someone suggested I take a look at metal stamping instead. The plastic box is about 4.5x3.5x1.5", and would need holes on several sides, some of them tapped. I've done some googling but I'm having trouble finding examples of simple enclosures, most fabricators seem to specialize either in very small and flat parts or huge enclosures for vending machines and such, so I can't get an idea of how much this would cost. Anyone have any experience with stamping? Have you got any quotes for 3d printing? Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 21:04
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Rapulum_Dei posted:Have you got any quotes for 3d printing? 3d printing is definitely not economical, at least not for anything beyond a few prototypes. Just the cost of the consumables would be excessive compared to the machined plastic enclosures.
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May 11, 2015 23:54
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ANIME AKBAR posted:3d printing is definitely not economical, at least not for anything beyond a few prototypes. Just the cost of the consumables would be excessive compared to the machined plastic enclosures. I work in automation and have incorporated progressive dies in a couple machines. For example, an 11 step die for a crimp ran about $65k. For your batch size I recommend a company with a CNC punch like this. https://youtu.be/HBa1wDv-6bU This will give you a flat blank with all your features ready to fold into a box. We usually get the folding done locally so we save on shipping because 90d bends are cake for any sheet metal house.
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May 12, 2015 02:20
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ANIME AKBAR posted:I've done some googling but I'm having trouble finding examples of simple enclosures, most fabricators seem to specialize either in very small and flat parts or huge enclosures for vending machines and such, so I can't get an idea of how much this would cost. Anyone have any experience with stamping? Bear in mind that the large majority of machine shops and metal fabricators and such are ridiculous luddites. Many have almost no internet presence, and those that do, tend to have websites that look like they were made by a 14-year-old in 1997. Try the yellow pages. I'm serious.
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May 12, 2015 03:44
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ANIME AKBAR posted:3d printing is definitely not economical, at least not for anything beyond a few prototypes. Just the cost of the consumables would be excessive compared to the machined plastic enclosures. I'm not sure what consumables you mean, ABS filament for 3D printers is $19 for a 2lb reel, maybe less. That video of the CNC punch is a pleasure to watch, what an amazing machine. Rapulum_Dei fucked around with this message at 06:55 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 06:15
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bred posted:I work in automation and have incorporated progressive dies in a couple machines. For example, an 11 step die for a crimp ran about $65k. For your batch size I recommend a company with a CNC punch like this. Oh my loving god that video. How long has that type of machine been on the market? It is an absolute revelation to discover there's something in the space between laser/waterjet and full-up die set press production shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 07:37 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 07:32
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bred posted:I work in automation and have incorporated progressive dies in a couple machines. For example, an 11 step die for a crimp ran about $65k. For your batch size I recommend a company with a CNC punch like this. One thing about a metal enclosure that concerned me was that sharpness of the edges, since this is something people would sometimes want to handle by hand. Are there also ways of smoothing out the corners and stuff? Leperflesh posted:Bear in mind that the large majority of machine shops and metal fabricators and such are ridiculous luddites. Many have almost no internet presence, and those that do, tend to have websites that look like they were made by a 14-year-old in 1997. Rapulum_Dei posted:I'm not sure what consumables you mean, ABS filament for 3D printers is $19 for a 2lb reel, maybe less. My university has a couple Fortus 400 machines and they could do it, but the raw material is like $5 per cubic inch, and I haven't found a service that charges less than double that for time on the machine. In the end it's at least 2-3 times as expensive as the machined enclosures, with shoddier looking results. ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 12:56 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 12:43
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ANIME AKBAR posted:That's cool as hell, especially the bending. I wonder how much time on that machine costs? It could probably do over a hundred pieces an hour for me. If they're only contactable by phone they'll work off a fagpacket sketch of the finished product and they figure out how to make it. As for edges tell them what you want. They'll deburr or grind as appropriate.
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May 12, 2015 14:47
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ANIME AKBAR posted:
Got a rough sketch? A ton of us can crank you out a blueprint pretty quickly.
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May 12, 2015 14:53
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ANIME AKBAR posted:One thing about a metal enclosure that concerned me was that sharpness of the edges, since this is something people would sometimes want to handle by hand. Are there also ways of smoothing out the corners and stuff? Yes these punched edges are sharp but one edge is a little less sharp. Another option is CNC laser, plasma or water jet to cut the blanks. I've seen water jets (Flow brand) with a tilting head that leaves a beveled edge but you'll need some planning to keep the edges consistent after bending. The gcode is more complicated as well so you'll have to find a shop that can do 3d programming. I think you'll have trouble beating the $7 ppu machining cost switching to metal. I'm on my phone right now but was your box two unique pieces or two of the same piece? If they can be the same then a single cavity mold might be the best choice. You'll get a great surface finish and the labor after the mold making will be cheap. E-also, getting cheap here, maybe you can use a standard rectangular tube with end caps. bred fucked around with this message at 16:08 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 16:04
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If the quantity is closer to 100 than 1000, wouldn't laser / waterjet make more sense than stamping, since there are no tooling costs?
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May 12, 2015 16:28
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rawrr posted:If the quantity is closer to 100 than 1000, wouldn't laser / waterjet make more sense than stamping, since there are no tooling costs? CNC stamping machines composite the required stamp out of a bunch of generic shapes. Waterjet would probably be about the same cost though.
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May 12, 2015 17:03
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Whatcha wanna know? I'm not really big on jewellery but it's accessible with the resources I have atm, it's not hard to sell, and it's pretty complementary with the chasing/repousse I do. Just what are essential tools for getting started doing cold connections out of my own home, aside from a foredom drill, and then feedback from other jewelers on here would be nice. Also good online resources, because there aren't many supply stores locally and they mark up tools like 100 times. It's been about 6 years since I was last making things, so I don't really know where to buy online. As far as tutorials, youtube has gobs.
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May 13, 2015 01:21
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Just got back from the three day New England Blacksmiths spring meetup. My biggest takeaway - I need to spend more time, in person, working with other smiths. The "headliner" was Pat McCarty, who drove in from Missouri. He works at a fair called Silver Dollar City, so a lot of what he talked about was encouraging everyday folks to buy handforged products. He was very talented, and had seemingly unlimited stamina. He must be in his mid 60's, but his arms were ripped. I guess when you work at a fair for hours on end, you get good at it. Just by watching him do a few demonstrations, I learned a lot. Most of my smithing "career" has been solo, watching guys on youtube and practicing. Being able to see it in person, and then ask questions, made a big difference. I spent three days straight forging. I started out trying to make an axe head, but realized it was both too ambitious, and that I was getting too many conflicting opinions. I worked on basics, like forging leaves, and helped other people out with their projects. There were a lot of very talented folks there. I saw some great damascus knives, some locks and latches that were elegant and beautiful. All in all a good weekend. I'm going to attend more things like this, check out some of the local places. Maybe even try to make it up to the Auburn school in Maine and take a longer class there.
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May 17, 2015 20:39
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Echeveria posted:Just what are essential tools for getting started doing cold connections out of my own home, aside from a foredom drill, and then feedback from other jewelers on here would be nice. Also good online resources, because there aren't many supply stores locally and they mark up tools like 100 times. It's been about 6 years since I was last making things, so I don't really know where to buy online. As far as tutorials, youtube has gobs. riogrande.com is the typical go-to for jeweller's supplies in the US. "Cold connections" is kind of a huge umbrella of joinery techniques, so it's hard to answer that definitively- for riveting with traditional solid rivets you'll probably want a riveting hammer, a range of small drill bits and diamond burrs, a jewellers saw/flush-cutters, an anvil and possibly a bucking block/rivet set depending on the style of rivets you want to use. You can buy small commercially-made rivets or make them yourself, very slowly and painfully, with metal wire. But that's just for one particular riveting method, which is only one particular style of cold connection. If you want a mobile join, you can rivet purchased/fabricated hinges on, or drill holes and connect the components with jump rings or even short lengths of chain. When I've done bimetal plaques with a border/edging of a different metal, just folding and crimping it in place will do. So yeah, it really does depend on how focused in nature the work you wanna do is.
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May 18, 2015 00:05
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Don't think any of the thread regulars are up on this kind of thing, but- does anybody know of a non-gaudy-rhinestone way of doing decent-looking pave settings without actually, you know, doing pave settings? Cheap jewellery often has the pave setting cast right into the piece but that isn't an option for me.
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May 18, 2015 21:28
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Don't think any of the thread regulars are up on this kind of thing, but- does anybody know of a non-gaudy-rhinestone way of doing decent-looking pave settings without actually, you know, doing pave settings? Cheap jewellery often has the pave setting cast right into the piece but that isn't an option for me. Short of a square taper punch and epoxy? No.
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May 19, 2015 22:19
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Wouldna thought so, but you never know. I can envision some kind of solder-on cut-to-size setting "board" being feasible. Did a trial run of a lil rustic hinge for a box I want to make. Hinge socket is just crimped 1/4" annealed copper tubing, the pin is some salvaged wire. A nice side-effect of this style of single-knuckle hinge is that you can bend the pin a lil inside the tube once everything's bent and in place and it acts as a kind of spring/pressure catch that causes some friction in the closed position to keep the lid from swinging open on its own. Oughta do a nicer job on the pin "tabs" next time but w/es 
Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 20:57 on May 23, 2015 |
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May 23, 2015 20:55
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Birthday is coming up soon so I bought myself an efficient german velder. http://www.stahlwerk-schweissgeraete.de/en/wig-tig-acdc-200-puls-mit-plasma/stahlwerk-acdc-wig-200-puls-mit-plasma-vollausstattung.html https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USK5TnhrtWc
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May 23, 2015 22:05
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Saw this linked on another site and thought people might like to see a slightly strange 15 year old make some small knives out of drill bits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf1btj7wWxI
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May 24, 2015 02:49
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Ambrose Burnside posted:Wouldna thought so, but you never know. I can envision some kind of solder-on cut-to-size setting "board" being feasible. What is the hinge attached to, is that brass?
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May 24, 2015 08:18
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Yeah, just some scrap brass sheet cutoffs from repousse projects.
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May 24, 2015 14:48
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I'll just leave this here.
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May 24, 2015 16:28
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Motronic posted:I'll just leave this here. You shouldn't leave toy figurines next to your power hammer.
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May 24, 2015 17:31
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echomadman posted:Birthday is coming up soon so I bought myself an efficient german velder. Holy poo poo that's a good deal if it's a decent welder. Funnily enough it's my birthday in a weeks time...
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May 25, 2015 00:39
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ReelBigLizard posted:Holy poo poo that's a good deal if it's a decent welder. Funnily enough it's my birthday in a weeks time... A German made box for a Chinesium price? I'm pretty interested in seeing how well this works out. Looks like it would be a nice portable rig.
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May 25, 2015 03:08
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Motronic posted:A German made box for a Chinesium price? I'm pretty interested in seeing how well this works out. Looks like it would be a nice portable rig. It looks like it's German designed, built largely in China and then finished / QC-ed in Germany with higher quality components, which seems like a good compromise. I can MAPP braze and stick weld to a functional level, I just want to dip into TIG so I can do more materials (and TIG Braze too). I'm not interested in becoming a TIG weld fetishist though so as long as it can do functional welds then I think it will fit my needs. I like that it comes with a bunch of stuff like assorted rods, auto mask and the plasma cutter head too.
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May 25, 2015 09:34
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ReelBigLizard posted:It looks like it's German designed, built largely in China and then finished / QC-ed in Germany with higher quality components, which seems like a good compromise. I'll report back on how good it is, I haven't TIG welded anything in years since I was made redundant from my old metalworking job and had to go back to computer janitoring. I'm looking forward to having an inverter based stick welder just for quick jobs too. Looking forward to the plasma cutter the most though, I just hope my crappy compressor can keep up.
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May 25, 2015 10:43
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Motronic posted:I'll just leave this here. Oh god, that is so hot.
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May 26, 2015 09:21
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This weekend I finally got around to making my first brass casting: Ready to pour  Poured in the mold  Solidified and turned over  Sand knocked off  Final result after light cleaning  After brazing on a 1/2" rod and heating with the torch I'm not sure why the surface finish on the face of the brand wasn't smoother, but the petrobond worked a million times better than my homemade Gingery sand. Petrobond is great stuff, actually the mold was completely rammed up by my 9 year old son who had a blast doing it.
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May 26, 2015 18:18
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I recently finished another commission. This one was a challenging one. I drew the client a drawing and had no idea how to make it until she chose that drawing. It is a handrail for a 1906 Craftsman home. I designed it with lots of upsets at specific angles. The handrail is upset to a 55 degree angle on either end, the pickets are upset to 35 degrees on either end and there are square angled tenons on the bottom. The balusters are upset on the tops and they all have two collars.  I tried to forge the indentations on the ends of the balusters but couldn't make a pattern clean enough. I ended up paying someone to machine a 1/16" channel. Here it is in the vice with a newly made collaring tool.  Welding it all up  And after the install.   I will get better images. I also need some advice. She wanted a matte black finish, but not too dark and flat. I finished it with beeswax, but as much as I tried to oxidize any spots that were hit with the grinder there were still some spots that ended up a little shinier. In an effort to darken those spots I dumped a lot of heat in one place and some of the finish ended up uneven. The client didn't like that and wants a fix. My mentor thinks I should remove the whole thing, drive it back to the shop melt off all the wax, sandblast it and refinish it with Presto Black. I think that is insane and I don't think the client wants it gone. My idea was to find a dark wood finish and try to even it out. I am pretty sure Polyeurathane and beeswax work fine together. I have also seen recipes online for beeswax varnish. I thought a matter varnish with a dye would also work. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to fix this without removing the rail? I also recently was able to take a class with Evan Wilcox on sheet metal forming. He is well known for making custom parts for motorcycles. He was a great instructor. We formed aluminum, planished it on the English wheel and welded it with hydrogen. I have never gas welded before, but I enjoyed it. It went pretty easily and was a lot like TIG but with a heavier torch. I can post photos of those if anyone wants. Anyway, it is one more tool in my belt if I ever need it.
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May 28, 2015 08:23
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ArtistCeleste posted:I will get better images. I also need some advice. She wanted a matte black finish, but not too dark and flat. I just spent an entire weekend with the New England Blacksmithing guild, and the presenter finished his pieces with a mix of Boiled Linseed Oil, Spar Varnish, Turpentine, and Beeswax. He mixes it warm, using a crockpot as a double boiler. I believe the ratio was equal parts BLO and Turpentine, 1/2 part spar varnish, and a dollop of beeswax. Mix evenly, and it'll keep for over a year. He brushed it on while the metal was warm but not hot, and it gave a beautiful finish. This page discusses similar recipes and applications http://www.traditionalproductreports.com/ornamental-metalwork-finishing.html Maybe use a torch on the railing to warm it, and brush on the mixture? Pagan fucked around with this message at 14:10 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 14:06
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ArtistCeleste posted:I recently finished another commission. This one was a challenging one. I drew the client a drawing and had no idea how to make it until she chose that drawing. It is a handrail for a 1906 Craftsman home. I designed it with lots of upsets at specific angles. The handrail is upset to a 55 degree angle on either end, the pickets are upset to 35 degrees on either end and there are square angled tenons on the bottom. The balusters are upset on the tops and they all have two collars. excellent I like blacksmithing proper a lot, but the "doing installations/making sure everything is within tolerances" part of bigger stuff gives me the willies. I'm too used to my stuff only having to pass the mk 1 eyeball test.
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May 28, 2015 15:56
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Ambrose Burnside posted:excellent Yeah, I feel worried to my stomach before every install. But I think I am getting better. I am learning. I am also very, very careful with measurements, both taking them and making them to the correct specification. That said the bottom bracket was 1/16" high on one side and the middle one was 1/16" high. I just put shims under them and they were just fine. It's hard with a rail because even on a square table you don't have a place to line everything up to. You just have to measure very square and draw it out onto the table. When I welded on two of the feet it was upside down and I had to check for square. I also have no experience working in a fab shop or doing installs so everything is new to me. Luckily so far I have had happy clients. Pagan, I would definitely want to remove and bring back to the shop to do that one. I also used Spar Varnish before but wanted to avoid it this time because of how shiny it was. I definitely need to start experimenting with other finishes. I have used Linseed Oil too. That stuff is a bitch. It takes a while to dry and is hard to apply. I am sure he did it no problem, it's just one of those things I need to practice like everything else.
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May 28, 2015 17:09
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At school most of the teachers used linseed for blackening- the traditionalist used a lot of beeswax but he mostly sticks to smaller stuff, while the production guy who took a lot of shortcuts (and entirely coincidentally made bank) used linseed or chemical insta-black. The instablack was by far the fastest and easiest to apply and looked pretty good, if not quite as good as linseed. I mostly stuck to beeswax but I didn't black anything big so getting even heat was pretty trivial.
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May 28, 2015 17:47
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I have used presto black coated with Spar Varnish or Penetrol for almost all my big projects. The final coat is rather shiny though, and she didn't want shiny. I have also done linseed oil and Johnson's paste wax. Paste wax is easy to apply but isn't as durable as beeswax. I am thinking I will try this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy_KwMspDBE It will work with the beeswax and can be applied when only slightly warm. I have to do some tests, but I think it is a promising idea. ArtistCeleste fucked around with this message at 18:09 on May 28, 2015 |
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May 28, 2015 18:07
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I just use black paint thinned 10-1 with regular thinner, painted on, dried, sanded lightly, and then clear coated. Super easy, inexpensive, easy to find at any hardware store, and keeps rust away very well. But yeah for that shiny bit I would just hit it with a big propane tiger torch or mapp torch, or a big o/a rosette and keep it glowing for fifteen or twenty minutes, let it oxidize nicely to bubble the surface just a touch.
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May 28, 2015 18:18
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Slung Blade posted:I just use black paint thinned 10-1 with regular thinner, painted on, dried, sanded lightly, and then clear coated. I had it glowing but not for 15-20 minutes. I hit it with a oxidizing flame with an acetylene torch and a propane one. Next time. What kind of paint? What base? Acrylic? Thanks for the advice.
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May 28, 2015 18:29
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ArtistCeleste posted:I had it glowing but not for 15-20 minutes. I hit it with a oxidizing flame with an acetylene torch and a propane one. Next time. I just use tremclad in the pint cans, which is oil based if I recall correctly. Gloss or flat black will work, though I use gloss. (I'll double check that when I get home, been a while since I painted anything for indoor use) An old pickle or jam jar with a seal works great to keep the thinner/paint mix for a long time, plus you can just shake it up by hand, no need for a stirring stick since it's so thin, and the glass means you can see any lumps.
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May 28, 2015 21:03
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How did you do your rectangular tenons? When I had to do mine I cut them in on the bandsaw but if I wasn't really careful I'd overcut and create nicks that just loved to crack way down the line.
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May 28, 2015 21:16
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