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Bobo the Red posted:"Winter is Coming" is a warning and a reminder. The Northmen are probably always preparing for the next winter. The surviving shorter winters doesn't seem implausible at all: cities can last ages under siege, and the cities in the north still have access to trade and possibly new fish/game the winter brings. The wildlings have survived that sort of climate for millennia, no reason a more organized, more settled people can't endure it for a while.
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May 12, 2015 00:41
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JT Jag posted:It's why all these wars are really really loving bad. Lots of people are having to dip into their winter stores just to survive the fighting. The Riverlands in particular are super, super hosed. That's what they get for not being a proper Kingdom
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May 12, 2015 00:47
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JT Jag posted:The reason areas like the Reach and Dorne are so relatively well-off compared to the rest of Westeros is that parts of them tend to stay temperate even during Winter.
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May 12, 2015 00:47
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There is period of English history called 'the 19 year winter'; quite likely that's where GRRM got the whole idea from. In early medieval times, starving to death because the crops failed, or an army burnt them, was a thing that could happen. Like most of the magic in the series, magic deep-winter is mostly there to try and give modern Americans the impression of what that might have felt like. See also scots raiders as zombies, Norman military technology as dragons, or Hadrian's wall as something you couldn't really believe humans ever built.
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May 12, 2015 00:49
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precision posted:The same way we do, by assigning a random number of days to it? A year is the amount of days that it takes the earth to orbit the sun. I'm not trying to be mean or sarcastic here, but if you actually didn't know that you should watch this: https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8dPuuaLjXtPAJr1ysd5yGIyiSFuh0mIL
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May 12, 2015 01:04
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radmonger posted:There is period of English history called 'the 19 year winter'; quite likely that's where GRRM got the whole idea from. Wouldn't be surprised if he's also drawing on events like the Year Without a Summer, where the global temperature just dropped like a rock (likely due to volcanic activity) and caused ecological disaster across Europe. Really, Europe being a generally fertile but climatically borderline region has given it a number of dramatic cases where the shift to winter has been a disaster that brought down nations.
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May 12, 2015 01:15
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JT Jag posted:I believe he implied there was a Donner party situation and the rations got so tight on the Wall that people who died of cold found that their watch... wasn't quite over yet. Early in Season 1 it's Ser Thorne loving with Jon and Sam as he recounts a ranging mission where they got stuck out in the wilderness during a blizzard. "Oh yeah having to eat our horses when we got snowed in, that was easy. But when we started to die.... ...that wasn't easy." The obvious inference -- for Jon and Sam, and for us the audience -- is cannibalism. Alliser Thorne has been through some poo poo and that's why he's a bit of an rear end in a top hat.
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May 12, 2015 01:29
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Lionel Richie posted:... if anything happens to Shireen then me and this show are going to be having some problems. loving this. I wish she was allowed to just set up a remedial Common-Tongue class in Castle Black for Gilly and all the other wildlings. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to watch her try to teach Tormund to read and write.
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May 12, 2015 02:00
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MizPiz posted:loving this. I wish she was allowed to just set up a remedial Common-Tongue class in Castle Black for Gilly and all the other wildlings. Don't tell me you wouldn't want to watch her try to teach Tormund to read and write. That would literally be the best 
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May 12, 2015 02:15
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radmonger posted:In early medieval times, starving to death because the crops failed, or an army burnt them, was a thing that could happen. Like most of the magic in the series, magic deep-winter is mostly there to try and give modern Americans the impression of what that might have felt like. The grimness of this context becomes so claustrophobic on this show; I think it's pretty effective at conveying that. It's nice to see other parts of the world for this reason, where the cosmology isn't necessarily centered around existential terror at the changing seasons. That said, Essos feels so underdeveloped. And mostly uninhabited. There appears to be nothing there but a handful of city-states, with no empires or larger polities at all. They've implied the existence of empires - Valyria or Ghis - but none of them exist anymore. Who's in charge? Whose banner is hanging from the piles of poo poo on the side of the road? I'd like to think there are areas the show hasn't mentioned, other continents and the like. Maybe there's some analog for the medieval Muslim caliphate or fuedal Imperial China on the other side of Essos. Not that we'll ever hear about it, I'm sure.
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May 12, 2015 02:21
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Dany, on counsel of hairdresser and fucktoy: Freedom for all, burnings for some, imprisonment and forced marriages for others 
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May 12, 2015 02:25
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Xealot posted:That said, Essos feels so underdeveloped. And mostly uninhabited. There appears to be nothing there but a handful of city-states, with no empires or larger polities at all. They've implied the existence of empires - Valyria or Ghis - but none of them exist anymore. Who's in charge? Whose banner is hanging from the piles of poo poo on the side of the road? I'm pretty sure that it is just supposed to be a handful of city-states. Outside of the cities, the pile of poo poo on the side of the road is controlled by the who ever is occupying it at the moment.
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May 12, 2015 02:36
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Xealot posted:That said, Essos feels so underdeveloped. And mostly uninhabited. There appears to be nothing there but a handful of city-states, with no empires or larger polities at all. They've implied the existence of empires - Valyria or Ghis - but none of them exist anymore. Who's in charge? Whose banner is hanging from the piles of poo poo on the side of the road? Well, the city-states are all in charge of themselves. The ones on the west part are even called the "Free Cities". Braavos is cool because it was a secret city of refugees and escaped slaves, and they alone eschew slavery entirely (well, them and Westeros). When the old empire literally exploded, some of the cities tried to sorta group up and recreate it, but the others joined with Braavos and said "no thanks". East of them, it's hard to settle because it's the land of the godamn Dothraki. The Dothraki are also likely why everyone is concentrated in big-rear end city states: small villages get pillaged, as we saw. The three main cities of Slaver's Bay are independent but share a common culture, and Qarth is a weird port in the middle of the shittiest part of the continent. Melisandre is from even further east, where almost no one from Westeros has ever been. There's also stuff to the south, where Salladhor Saan comes from. Snippets come up, but the show is clearly meant to be centered on Westeros, and they really don't get out much
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May 12, 2015 02:53
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The Human Crouton posted:A year is the amount of days that it takes the earth to orbit the sun. Yes, I know that. I meant a number that's random to them, such as "365". Asking why a year is 365 days in Westeros is as pointless as asking why there are humans in Westeros, or why they just happened to invent the exact same swords and armor that we did, etc. If "a year" in GoT were, like, 100 days or 700 days it would make giving us the ages of the characters completely meaningless. Since people generally look like the age they are said to be in the show we can pretty safely assume that "a year" is "more or less 365 days, because reasons". It just struck me as a really strange thing to need an explanation for.
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May 12, 2015 03:04
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Factor Mystic posted:Davos would be a bad peacetime Hand. Dude can barely read, and while he seems to be a decent leader of men in a conflict scenario, I don't know how he'd do against crooked maesters and handling the kings court. Stannis could retain him as Hand, of course, but he'd probably just always defer to the Master Of ___ unless the topic was war or trade. I think he'd be an even better hand in times of peace. He has a good understanding of economics, he'd be obviously skilled at trade. He's also very persuasive and diplomatic to the point that even Stannis will listen to him. He isn't very duplicitous but that's a good thing in a hand not a bad thing. And he isn't so much of a square that he's naive either. I mean would Ned Stark hang out with Sallador Saan? Davos is very effective council for Stannis because he is very good at things that Stannis is quite poo poo at, and does a lot to humanize him. In terms of war Stannis is actually way more skilled and educated than Davos is. Stannis doesn't lack in military acumen he needs a really good PR campaign.
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May 12, 2015 03:14
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whoflungpoop posted:Dany, on counsel of hairdresser and fucktoy: Freedom for all, burnings for some, imprisonment and forced marriages for others And much like General Sherman, hated by a bunch of people who really liked the idea of owning slaves but are afraid to say it
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May 12, 2015 03:48
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JT Jag posted:The reason areas like the Reach and Dorne are so relatively well-off compared to the rest of Westeros is that parts of them tend to stay temperate even during Winter. But it turbofucks the North, freezes over the Riverlands and the Vale and hits the Crownlands and Stormlands pretty hard too. Why don't people in Westeros use it as a vacation home like Brits in Spain? Dorne is portrayed as pretty isolated politically and very nationalistic but you'd think they could leverage that
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May 12, 2015 03:52
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Alan Smithee posted:Why don't people in Westeros use it as a vacation home like Brits in Spain? Dorne is portrayed as pretty isolated politically and very nationalistic but you'd think they could leverage that There is the "millennia of animosity' issue to consider
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May 12, 2015 03:54
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Alan Smithee posted:Why don't people in Westeros use it as a vacation home like Brits in Spain?
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May 12, 2015 03:57
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Alan Smithee posted:Why don't people in Westeros use it as a vacation home like Brits in Spain? Dorne is portrayed as pretty isolated politically and very nationalistic but you'd think they could leverage that Because the only people who can afford vacation homes are the feudal lords, and if they go on vacation their strongest subjects will take their castle and become the new feudal lord.
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May 12, 2015 03:59
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Grey Worm living is super dumb. Go back to the end of the last episode - he loses about a pint of blood in a few seconds.
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May 12, 2015 04:44
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Petr posted:Grey Worm living is super dumb. Go back to the end of the last episode - he loses about a pint of blood in a few seconds. Yeah but he doesn't have to divert blood to other areas so he has more to work with.
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May 12, 2015 04:59
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Bobo the Red posted:"Winter is Coming" is a warning and a reminder. The Northmen are probably always preparing for the next winter. The surviving shorter winters doesn't seem implausible at all: cities can last ages under siege, and the cities in the north still have access to trade and possibly new fish/game the winter brings. The wildlings have survived that sort of climate for millennia, no reason a more organized, more settled people can't endure it for a while. radmonger posted:There is period of English history called 'the 19 year winter'; quite likely that's where GRRM got the whole idea from. Astro Nut posted:Wouldn't be surprised if he's also drawing on events like the Year Without a Summer, where the global temperature just dropped like a rock (likely due to volcanic activity) and caused ecological disaster across Europe. Really, Europe being a generally fertile but climatically borderline region has given it a number of dramatic cases where the shift to winter has been a disaster that brought down nations.
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May 12, 2015 05:53
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Linguica posted:King Aegon V (I think?) had a vacation palace in Dorne called Summerhall. It didn't end well
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May 12, 2015 06:06
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Am I the only one that thinks of Gendry whenever there's a beach scene with a boat slowly coming into the picture? Dude must be swole as gently caress now from all that rowing.
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May 12, 2015 06:15
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Okay guys: How long is a year? A year is 420 days and it can be charted astrologically, in this case when the stranger appears directly in the East after 13 moon cycles, it can be inferred that a year has passed. Much smoking occurs on New year. Why are seasons so long? The planet's axis is only tilted around 2 degrees, which means that seasonal variations in temperature are fairly mild. Also the days in the north are permanently shorter than night because it turns out that all of Westeros is situated mostly over the Northern Hemisphere, thus the mid-southern parts have all same length nights and days year round. The southern border has days that are somewhat shorter. Seasonal variation is due to periodic freezing of extremely tenuous ocean currents that results from unpredictable tidal phenomena. Every winter is essentially a mini-ice age, and is usually triggered in one of the mild seasonal winters. Due to Westeros's position in the northern hemisphere, this results in all of the north freezing, while areas in the south experience no freezing or even some warming come winter. The weather in the winter can be so harsh that cloud cover can completely shroud the areas in the north, giving the illusion that some nights are months long. Why don't the animals and trees die? The evergreen trees in the north have adapted to the periodic winter, and continue to produce edibles like pinecones and needles throughout winter. The deciduous trees have adapted to the long winter, and can continue to lay dormant for nearly a century without issue. The animals develop an abnormally thick coat, and most fauna in the north are larger to compensate for the cold and food scarcity. Some/most of this doesn't make sense scientifically I'm not a meteorologist but neither is George RR Martin so get over it I guess. Dolphin fucked around with this message at 06:53 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 06:42
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A Buttery Pastry posted:A lot of what allows the wildlings to endure might be the very fact that they're less organized and settled. The lack of settling would majorly reduce the population density on the other side of the Wall, meaning I'm totally on board with the wildlings being better equipped for the winter. My point was that if wildling populations can manage in it pretty much always, the North should be able to withstand it temporarily fairly readily if they prepare (put food away, cleared and secured roads so people can bring food north) Red snow sounds like a thing that would definitely fit in the show. A weather event associated with ice AND fire!
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May 12, 2015 07:19
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Dolphin posted:Okay guys:
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May 12, 2015 07:28
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I like the idea of a year being 420 days because it makes Jon and Daenerys being 15 less ridiculous
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May 12, 2015 13:15
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Boing posted:I like the idea of a year being 420 days because it makes Jon and Daenerys being 15 less ridiculous It does make Aemon like 120, though.
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May 12, 2015 13:18
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God help me I'm actually starting to like and feel empathy for Jon Snow. Also, the Bolton scenes are some of my favorites. Every time Ramsay says something that makes me think "wow he's the cold-hearted-est character on the show," Roose goes and says something like "I made you by loving your mom under the corpse of her husband's swinging corpse." 
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May 12, 2015 13:30
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cock hero flux posted:It does make Aemon like 120, though. He's a Targaryen at The Wall. He could live forever if not removed from that source of magic.
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May 12, 2015 14:29
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COOL CORN posted:God help me I'm actually starting to like and feel empathy for Jon Snow. Line cut but implied by the story: "Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother." 
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May 12, 2015 14:30
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Can we hope for a scene with Salladhor Saan and Tormund?
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May 12, 2015 15:31
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Here's a neat pop history video about how the Wars of the Roses compare to GoT. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjO55pKuBo4 Also something to look out for on a rewatch. zoux fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 15:50
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Boing posted:I like the idea of a year being 420 days because it makes Jon and Daenerys being 15 less ridiculous In Rothfuss' fantasy series a month is 72 days with years that are roughly equivalent to our years, just made up of 5 months (presumably) instead of 12. But yeah, given all the crazy poo poo that teens get up to in ASOIAF, significantly longer years would provide a significant improvement to the story.
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May 12, 2015 17:11
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COOL CORN posted:God help me I'm actually starting to like and feel empathy for Jon Snow. Basically, the implication is that for all the horrible things Ramsay can do and has done, he's still just the apprentice Sith in that dynamic. Also last season made it pretty clear that for everything else off about Ramsay, he still deeply craves paternal approval. The cold thing about Roose is: while Tywin never quite gave any of his kids the approval they wanted from him (and thus set each one of them up to go "nothing's ever good enough anyway, gently caress it/gently caress him" in their own unique way), Roose recognizes Ramsay's need for it and thus only mostly withholds it; in well-calculated occasions he does give Ramsay that pat on the head, which is ultimately more effective in keeping Ramsay in the role Roose wants him to be in.
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May 12, 2015 17:35
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The way Ramsay treats Theon is just a more obvious and exaggerated version of how Roose treats Ramsay.
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May 12, 2015 17:45
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The family in general seems to quite enjoy its conditioning techniques, which is kinda fitting (if horrid) given that Theon now lives in a kennel.
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May 12, 2015 18:14
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Petr posted:Grey Worm living is super dumb. Go back to the end of the last episode - he loses about a pint of blood in a few seconds. If it makes his girl get naked again I'm all for it.
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