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Overwined posted:I made some big dumb long post and the internet ate it, which is pure serendipity. I've done pure discovery as well as rigorous outlining, and for me the sweet spot seems to be somewhere in the middle. I'll map out all the important plot points and conflicts I want to hit but let the connecting scenes work themselves out during the writing. This is for novel length stuff though. Short stories I'm usually just winging it.
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May 9, 2015 23:02
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what's an outline? What do lines have to do with words?
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May 9, 2015 23:20
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It's a Writing Fact that less has fewer words than fewer.
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May 9, 2015 23:35
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it's a writing F@ct that you spell lips and kiss with the same T9 combo
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May 9, 2015 23:37
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Sitting Here posted:it's a writing F@ct that you spell lips and kiss with the same T9 combo It's a fact that your phone is old/cheap #phoneshaming2015
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May 9, 2015 23:44
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Overwined posted:It's a fact that your phone is old/cheap it's a writing fact that 80085 makes "boobs" on a old calculator (not those fancyass texas instruments ones, though, gently caress you rich kids who could program stupid nerd games on your digitized nerd abacus) 
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May 9, 2015 23:52
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Sitting Here posted:it's a writing fact that 80085 makes "boobs" on a old calculator (not those fancyass texas instruments ones, though, gently caress you rich kids who could program stupid nerd games on your digitized nerd abacus) 5318008 but upside-down, imo
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May 9, 2015 23:55
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HopperUK posted:5318008 but upside-down, imo
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May 9, 2015 23:58
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51358008 are far more delightful than 58008. Unless you're writing super-romance.
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May 10, 2015 00:12
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Yeah "boobs" is trying too hard not to be childish when you really just want to go for it.
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May 10, 2015 00:39
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writing fact, there is nothing more grown-up or manly than boobs. for example, my favorite quote from Hemingway is, "boobs."
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May 10, 2015 00:52
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Too many facts in the fiction thread.
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May 10, 2015 00:53
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not mysogynistic enough for hemingway.
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May 10, 2015 00:54
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Sitting Here posted:for example, my favorite quote from Hemingway is, "boobs." "Hands up if you think men are more free of masculinity than women are free of femininity!" is my favourite line from Schindler's List's biography.
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May 10, 2015 02:48
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Omi no Kami posted:magnificent7, how did you get your binder in that Scrivener screenshot to display status/target/total like that? I can only get mine to show the chapter name, which is way less helpful. It's pretty easy to do. You just use goddamn magic skizzles. Or go here and read. http://www.simplyscrivener.com/features/project-targets/ For the life of me, I don't remember doing it that way. I could have sworn I just clicked some field somewhere, but, meh, I could be wrong.
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May 10, 2015 03:02
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magnificent7 posted:Sorry - I didn't see this until now. We were without internet for a few days and I didn't know what the gently caress to do except masturbate and play Fallout. I think you mean masturbate while playing fallout.  Thanks though, this helps a lot- I'm constantly paranoid that I'm severely under-using Scrivener, because I keep tripping over neat stuff like this.
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May 10, 2015 03:49
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crabrock posted:not mysogynistic enough for hemingway.
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May 10, 2015 08:26
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Omi no Kami posted:I think you mean masturbate while playing fallout. One of the things I used a LOT when getting my ideas down for the story (and this isn't exclusive to Scrivener at all) was pasting photos into the outline, either to help with locations, or characters. It's a lot easier for me to write a character when I'm basing it on a person I know - so I can capture their dialect? Stupid phrases they over use? Whatever it is that helps distinguish one character from another.
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May 10, 2015 15:37
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That's a neat way to do it... I try to avoid visual references at least until I have the rough framework done, purely because I'm incredibly lazy, and giving myself references inevitably turns into an excuse to not fully think through my characters.
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May 10, 2015 17:54
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Omi no Kami posted:That's a neat way to do it... I try to avoid visual references at least until I have the rough framework done, purely because I'm incredibly lazy, and giving myself references inevitably turns into an excuse to not fully think through my characters. I'm kinda the opposite -- I describe my character's appearances way too often and often way, way before the reader has a reason to give a poo poo about them.  Hey, Idiot, why did you write three pages about a kid getting ready for school? So you know what he looks like! ...and why should I care? Well, he's the main character! And the color of his eyes are important -- the odd shade of blue is a genetic trademark used by the Human Optimization Initiative- HOW ABOUT YOU TELL US THAT INSTEAD OF HOW MUCH THE KID HATES GRAPEFRUIT, IDIOT. Um. Because that fact isn't important until the third novel- MAYBE IT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN GRAPEFRUIT. But the grapefruit thing is important for a scene later on! Is the scene in the first novel, Idiot? ...no.
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May 10, 2015 20:59
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That reminds me, I read some silly internet serial ages ago, it started with the news that someone important (but unnamed) had died, then rewound several decades and started telling the story. The author's intent was to make people go "Oh geez, which of the friends are going to die, will it be Joey or Chandler? Oh the drama!". The problem was that the prologue, while extremely vague, established two facts about the dead person: 1) they were female, 2) they were taller than the main character. Astute readers realized that there was only one person who fit that description, and sucked all of the intended tension out of the story before it ever got started. For me, I try to be very minimalist about character appearances: if something like eye color or a lighting-shaped scar on one's rear end in a top hat is plot-relevant, I'll bring it up, but I otherwise prefer to keep things minimal: the fewer hard details I provide, the fewer chances I have to screw up the continuity of my own story.
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May 10, 2015 21:18
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I just use the images to remind me of their mannerisms, especially when you're writing with local dialects, (in my case, southern US) but don't want to be writin' a bunch o' sheety pernounciashuns. Hard to explain -- it just keeps that person's voice in my head when I'm writing out their dialog. gently caress descriptions entirely. I hate them.
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May 10, 2015 23:18
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Hey guys, just wondering if anyone could offer a bit of feedback for this story I've been working on. It's been posted in its own thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3715560 And I've been putting it up on a blog: http://bugsturd.tumblr.com/ I see quite a few views but no comments. I'd really appreciate some insight into how terrible it is, so that I'd at least know what I'm doing wrong. I know it's a bit long, so I completely understand if no one has any time or patience. Still, thanks in advance anyway.
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May 11, 2015 07:15
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Bugsturd posted:Hey guys, just wondering if anyone could offer a bit of feedback for this story I've been working on. It's been posted in its own thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3715560 Naw you're good. It's super duper anime and borderline laughable - "now we have met in this tavern we will introduce ourselves one by one!" - but I find it kind of winning in its unabashed rpg stylings. It's a hearty fictional PB&J, there's no surprise in what you're gonna get but good if that's what you're hankering for. Stylistically there are various nits I could pick but it's solidly midrange extruded fantasy product level, and it flows as well as it needs to.
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May 11, 2015 08:43
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Stuporstar posted:Read. Read more. Read inside your favorite genre, and broaden your tastes outside your genre. Read character driven fiction. Read novels and short stories instead of devouring nothing but comics, games, and movies. You’ll develop a better eye for writing stories as you read them. Out of curiosity has anyone mentioned that there is an advantage in deliberately reading poorly written literature? I've got this awful steampunk book on my desk at work titled 'Leviathan.' I have no idea how it got published. It's cliche and obtuse in a genre that is already bloated with uninspired storytelling and get out of plot free devices. Not saying there isn't great steampunk...but there is way more awful steampunk. Having things that inspire are great, but sometimes you need to have obvious examples of what not to do. EDIT: Also looking for crit on something I turned out from nowhere last night. Looking at it I think my composition is at least better than 'sophomoric' but would like to know what others think about it. EDIT 2: Discussion Topic Also, what do you do when you see someone giving out legitimately bad advice to people who don't otherwise know better? EXAMPLE: A yet to be revealed and self-professed 'writing expert' likes to beat it into people's heads that all dialogue (even in the same paragraph) needs to be preceeded or followed by 'said/replied/etc' and the character speaking needs to be indicated. Short of popping into the thread and saying 'No, you don't...that's silly and boring and overbearing for any audience above the age of 6' I can't think of anything. It seems like a dick move...but it hurts to see people get excited at getting bad advice. If there's something I feel someone should be called out on I feel as though it's important to be willing to do so publicly. Private Messages to the victim of the bad advice are obviously an option but that seems underhanded, and rude to do so unsolicited. And yes, I have approached the offending party only to be dismissed offhandedly and told I was stupid and should mind my own business. I don't even follow this person's work specifically, but I see it being shared by others constantly. Also, aforementioned source likes to make poo poo up when they are asked about topics that they have no insight or knowledge of (usually things in the technical spectrum/details about technology/legal procedure/etc). So I pose the question: How do you handle this situation tactfully when the other party is unwilling to admit that there is even a chance they are wrong? SkaAndScreenplays fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 10:23
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brawl them
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May 11, 2015 11:11
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:brawl them Not on SA to my knowledge, but I'll pitch it to them. Doubtful they will accept though.
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May 11, 2015 11:12
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Just tell them they're wrong and post examples (like big examples, Hemingway for your situation) of why they're wrong. and do it publicly. if you just pm the dude telling him he's wrong, he might edit it or change it, but if he doesn't you screw over the people who need the advice. Call people out on their poo poo, especially if they potentially screw over other, newer writers. If they start off with those bad habits, then it just becomes that much harder for them to break. And if it's over the internet it's even easier to call people idiots. Though at the end of the day, they may actually give a poo poo and ignore you and say you're wrong. At that point, you kinda just have to shrug and say oh well, not much I can do. It sucks, but at least you tried.
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May 11, 2015 11:17
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SkaAndScreenplays posted:Out of curiosity has anyone mentioned that there is an advantage in deliberately reading poorly written literature? 1) For the time spent, you're going to get a lot more out of reading well written literature than reading poorly written literature. Reading poorly written literature is going to give you way more fodder for stroking your own ego though! 2) Assuming you mean Scott Westerfeld's Leviathan, I am not surprised that it got published, or that it won multiple awards (which it did), or that it sold well (which it also did). A lot of my lack-of-surprise is based on my own enjoyment of it. I read a lot of YA speculative fiction. On a recent vacation, I set out to read only YA books that featured a girl disguising herself as a boy so she could join the army. It wasn't hard to find several. I added the Leviathan audiobook because I enjoyed reading it enough to listen to it, too. This was after a failed endeavor to only read books in which teenagers could turn into dragons.... Anyway, the setting and set-up of Leviathan was not particularly cliched, even for a book relying on the girl-disguised-as-boy trope (haha, Shakespeare destroyed that one 400 years ago, losers) or a book set on a zeppelin. I mean, the Zeppelin is a loving giant whale, after all. I'm not sure what aspects of the book you found obtuse, either. The characters and conflicts are set out pretty clearly. It's a very straightforward story. EDIT: SkaAndScreenplays posted:EDIT: Also looking for crit on something I turned out from nowhere last night. Looking at it I think my composition is at least better than 'sophomoric' but would like to know what others think about it. lol SkaAndScreenplays posted:EDIT 2: Discussion Topic call them out in this thread and have a multi-page passionate argument about it. (tell everyone to read more/write more/join thunderdome) Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 11:25 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 11:20
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Dr. Kloctopussy posted:1) For the time spent, you're going to get a lot more out of reading well written literature than reading poorly written literature. Reading poorly written literature is going to give you way more fodder for stroking your own ego though! I do realize I sort of spammed things in regards to that, and wish I would have revised the OP before posting it. Instead I will showcase the poo poo in my own writing. I do agree that there is way more bang for your buck in terms of good literature. But that doesn't mean there's no value in the bad stuff. I shall bring them to the Thunderdome if they are willing. I will bring all to the thunderdome.
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May 11, 2015 11:59
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:brawl them literally
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May 11, 2015 13:12
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Martello posted:literally Like, brawl them literally with your hands and feet and forehead, not literally have a literary non-literal brawl.
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May 11, 2015 13:13
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sebmojo posted:Naw you're good. It's super duper anime and borderline laughable - "now we have met in this tavern we will introduce ourselves one by one!" - but I find it kind of winning in its unabashed rpg stylings. It's a hearty fictional PB&J, there's no surprise in what you're gonna get but good if that's what you're hankering for. Hey, thanks for the comments! I suppose it is very anime, but I felt that since I was writing such ridiculous characters I might as well go all out with it. I've read a lot of actual literature for school and work, but somehow I still can't escape the trashy gaudiness of the RA Salvatore and co.'s stuff that I read as a teenager. I guess all the David Gemmel I've been reading these days because I don't have the energy/attention span for anything else doesn't help at all too. This story has been stuck in my head for years, and now I just want to get it out. Again, thanks for reading and taking the time to say what you think!
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May 11, 2015 20:22
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Bugsturd posted:Hey, thanks for the comments! I suppose it is very anime, but I felt that since I was writing such ridiculous characters I might as well go all out with it. I've read a lot of actual literature for school and work, but somehow I still can't escape the trashy gaudiness of the RA Salvatore and co.'s stuff that I read as a teenager. I guess all the David Gemmel I've been reading these days because I don't have the energy/attention span for anything else doesn't help at all too. This story has been stuck in my head for years, and now I just want to get it out. Again, thanks for reading and taking the time to say what you think! Yeah that's the vibe I was getting and I think you hit it so gj? I confess I only read the first bit so I'll read the rest and see if I think it holds up.
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May 11, 2015 20:34
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sebmojo posted:Yeah that's the vibe I was getting and I think you hit it so gj? I confess I only read the first bit so I'll read the rest and see if I think it holds up. I'd really appreciate it if you could do that.
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May 11, 2015 22:42
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Screaming Idiot posted:
Oh hey, I have more commentary going your way! I've been out of town for a bit and for once couldn't sneak in Internet time. Don't think I've forgotten about you. 
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May 12, 2015 14:46
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RedTonic posted:Oh hey, I have more commentary going your way! I've been out of town for a bit and for once couldn't sneak in Internet time. Don't think I've forgotten about you.
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May 12, 2015 16:38
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magnificent7 posted:David Wong kills it at descriptions. "I loving hate healthy food. Just look at my fat gut." Stuff like that. As in David Wong of Cracked Notoriety? That dude rules hard. Every one of his 'Growing Up Poor' articles kicks me in the in the rear end when it comes to actually producing things and trying to improve as a writer and person. Also the annual repost of the Glengarry Glenross speech every year has been fantastic.
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May 12, 2015 19:39
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SkaAndScreenplays posted:As in David Wong of Cracked Notoriety? Spiders has got to be one of my favorite books where the author breaks so many rules about writing. drat near every dialog tag is in front: I said, "gently caress you." She said, "No, gently caress you." I really want to write him an email and ask how many times he told editors to leave it like that.
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May 12, 2015 20:24
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There's no rule against putting dialogue tags in front though, so
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May 12, 2015 20:28
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