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Esser-Z posted:Well, he DID consider the possibility that people WOULD buy tons and tons of cards. Then he decided if that happened, well, they would have lots of money, so they could deal with it later. Which is about what happened, really.
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May 12, 2015 01:51
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FMguru posted:(he also never figured people would put together card lists and exchange them on the internet (which, at the time of the game's design, consisted entirely of CS grad students using Sun workstations after hours). As someone who was alive and his teenage years back then you are 100% full of poo poo.
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May 12, 2015 04:07
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https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/596930753063071745quote:@JamesRodwick Please clarify this for my group. The reach with a pole arm is 5 and 10 when attacking. How long til Mearls contradicts him again?
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May 12, 2015 05:59
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Richard Garfield then made Vampire: the Eternal Struggle having learned a lot of lessons from magic. Too bad the game's dead now. 
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May 12, 2015 07:31
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MonsieurChoc posted:Richard Garfield then made Vampire: the Eternal Struggle having learned a lot of lessons from magic. Too bad the game's dead now. So its not quite dead (har). He also designed the original Netrunner, which is pretty ok in its current incarnation as a non-"collectible" game.
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May 12, 2015 07:40
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FRINGE posted:I met some freaks people that still (apparently) play that all the time. When they find out that you actually know what it is the first thing through their fangs is OhMyGodDoYouHaveAnyCardsCanIGetThemFromYou. I had a group where we played every week with our fun gimmicky decks like the dude who based one on Pinky and the Brain or my "Ghost of a Chance" Giovanni end of the world deck. I miss those guys.
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May 12, 2015 07:54
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MonsieurChoc posted:Richard Garfield then made Vampire: the Eternal Struggle having learned a lot of lessons from magic. Too bad the game's dead now. Fun fact - Ryan Dancey tried to intentionally kill this after being put in charge of it, because he personally disliked it.
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May 12, 2015 08:05
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ProfessorCirno posted:Fun fact - Ryan Dancey tried to intentionally kill this after being put in charge of it, because he personally disliked it. I... but... I mean... Goddamit white wolf, I bought cards! I HAVE FIVE DIFERRENT AFRICAN DECKS! WHY!? 
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May 12, 2015 08:14
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MonsieurChoc posted:I... but... I mean... Goddamit white wolf, I bought cards! I HAVE FIVE DIFERRENT AFRICAN DECKS! WHY!? Wasn't White Wolf at the time. They had to wrest it away from his hands and revive it. He later got his revenge when he was hired on to CCP after White Wolf was bought and declared their actual ttgs would only be a legacy product and that they'd be refocused only to work on the MMO. Which was of course later cancelled miserably. As to "why," it's because Ryan Dancey is hilarious cyanide to this industry and has failed at literally everything he's ever tried to do in it (and beyond it) and yet continues to get hired.
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May 12, 2015 08:27
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L5R was pretty great. It was lined up to stay in a pretty great spot until WotC poo poo on the entire industry with a patent on "turning cards sideways". WotC took over, switched to lovely ink, cheap card stock, summoned (ha) a problem with the Olympic Committee (that had never cared about this nerd card game before), and then gave the crippled game back to AEG. quote:Wizards of the Coast holds U.S. Patent 5,662,332 on trading card games. The patent, filed in October 1995 and granted in September 1997, covers: That was the death of a whole bunch of entertaining but minor games. Im not going digging to check right now, but that was approx the year that Star Wars, Over the Edge, and (the mostly unknown, but loved by me at the time) Heresy all disappeared. (Heresy was the first card game I remember that used a split mechanic for the playing areas. You had the real world and the (forgot the term, but basically:) matrix. Fallen angels, cults, biker gangs, biblical artifacts, bombs... it was fun. The fallen angels were trying to stash spirit juice in the matrix so they could blast their way back into heaven. Orbital strike platforms vs Sammael and Gabriel.) WotC. Shits on everything it touches but had a patent to print money. But hey, they made 3e! 
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May 12, 2015 09:00
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If you want to talk AEG and the death of card games - including what was almost the near death of L5R - you can't ignore the "Rolling Thunder paradigm," yes that was the name, which was meant to trade rarity with scarcity. Instead of one big expansion every few months, you'd have a ton of "mini" episodes released every month. Instead of a relatively small number of rare cards, there would be a strip of "uncommon" cards, with each episode intentionally printed out one step smaller then general demand was to ensure they'd sell out. What actually happened is players either immediately got the cards they wanted or could never get the cards they wanted, lost all interest due to the lack of rare cards providing the cool moment of opening a booster, and game stores were swamped with product they couldn't sell because every month poo poo was obsolete and updated. Guess who came up with that idea?
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May 12, 2015 09:19
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ProfessorCirno posted:Guess who came up with that idea? Hahaha, holy poo poo. Honestly, it's hitting the point where Ryan Dancey is actually starting to really impress me because he's got to be amazing at talking his way into these projects.
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May 12, 2015 09:23
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Ryan Dancey is the Steve Jobs of self-marketing.
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May 12, 2015 09:29
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FRINGE posted:L5R was pretty great. It was lined up to stay in a pretty great spot until WotC poo poo on the entire industry with a patent on "turning cards sideways".  I thought you couldn't patent "rules", or is that just a thing that's specific to TRPGs/D&D/OSR D&D?
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May 12, 2015 09:37
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theironjef posted:Reading about how the game used to be built with this assumption is like finding one of those MTG cards that references ante to me. I first think "People actually had fun with that and weren't massive tools to each other immediately?" and then think "Oh no wait it wouldn't have died if that was the case." From personal experience, ante was an excuse used by older kids to bully younger ones out of their cards, and caused the game to be banned from many, many schoolyards. gradenko_2000 posted:
I'm pretty sure the patent in question (which I believe is expired anyway) only refers to the terminology of turning cards sideways being called "tapping". Of course, I exclusively played Magic at the time, only caring about other card games to laugh at them, so I might not be the best person to ask. Still, the Sim City and Highlander card games were sure funny, weren't they? Kai Tave posted:Given the salty response you received from diehard Elric: the RPG fans, you of all people should know how willing people are in this hobby to cling to outmoded concepts and make them part of their self-identity without even fully understanding why. Man, I loving love Elric, and Michael Moorcock is one of my absolute favorite authors, but I thought that poo poo was hilarious, even when I viciously disagreed. I'm a big enough boy that I can take criticism of things I like. I've never understood why people get so mad about different opinions. I found it to be a very Tucker Stone-esque contemptuous takedown. I think it's good to laugh at things you like sometimes. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 10:03 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 09:54
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I could see potential for some manner of ante in the lcg market since everything goes back in the same box afterwards. Kind of a Risk: Legacy deal.
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May 12, 2015 10:02
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VtES is going through a kind of a revival right now, actually. Fans have started to release free print-and-play expansion sets and everything. Tournament legal too, because the same fans are the ones organizing them.
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May 12, 2015 10:05
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Also, Orson Scott Card has never written a good book, sorry bro. 
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May 12, 2015 10:07
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Lightning Lord posted:Man, I loving love Elric, and Michael Moorcock is one of my absolute favorite authors, but I thought that poo poo was hilarious, even when I viciously disagreed. I'm a big enough boy that I can take criticism of things I like. I've never understood why people get so mad about different opinions. I found it to be a very Tucker Stone-esque contemptuous takedown. I think it's good to laugh at things you like sometimes. I also thought a critique of Elric exclusively based on how the setting and character are presented in the RPG was actually pretty worthwhile and interesting. It's sort of like if you've never heard of Superman and critiqued him based on Superman 64. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 10:29 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 10:21
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Lightning Lord posted:I also thought a critique of Elric exclusively based on how the setting and character are presented in the RPG was actually pretty worthwhile and interesting. It's sort of like if you've never heard of Superman and critiqued him based on Superman 64. Link? I'm curious now.
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May 12, 2015 13:26
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Splicer posted:Link? I'm curious now. http://systemmasterypodcast.com/2015/03/02/stormbringer-system-mastery-38/
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May 12, 2015 13:27
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ProfessorCirno posted:Wasn't White Wolf at the time. They had to wrest it away from his hands and revive it. He later got his revenge when he was hired on to CCP after White Wolf was bought and declared their actual ttgs would only be a legacy product and that they'd be refocused only to work on the MMO. CCP has done basically everything in it's power to kill White Wolf and it's only because of Rich Thomas figuring out a way to be white wolf without actually being white wolf that has let everything keep going. CCP is literally doing nothing with the white wolf license right now other than selling it to Onyx Path.
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May 12, 2015 14:04
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Did they ever actually produce anything under the brand?
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May 12, 2015 14:19
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All the books between 2007 and Onyx Path's inception were published by CCP. Including Changing Breeds.
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May 12, 2015 14:24
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ProfessorCirno posted:If you want to talk AEG and the death of card games - including what was almost the near death of L5R - you can't ignore the "Rolling Thunder paradigm," yes that was the name, which was meant to trade rarity with scarcity. Instead of one big expansion every few months, you'd have a ton of "mini" episodes released every month. It also worked for L5R better than it would have for most things, since the cards were tied to the player-printing story feedback loop.
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May 12, 2015 14:54
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Lightning Lord posted:I also thought a critique of Elric exclusively based on how the setting and character are presented in the RPG was actually pretty worthwhile and interesting. It's sort of like if you've never heard of Superman and critiqued him based on Superman 64. Thank you. Exactly! That is 100% what we were going for. I mean what is he, like a guy that hates a robot and proves it by collecting rings?
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May 12, 2015 20:54
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theironjef posted:Thank you. Exactly! That is 100% what we were going for. Superman is apt too because Elric is kind of an old inspiration for a lot of modern fantasy. Also you guys were spot on with a lot of your guessing about what it's like in the books. There's a lot of subversion of fantasy tropes and pisstaking going on. Elric, for example, is depicted as kind of a drug addict, drunken with the power and pleasure - there's also a purposeful homoerotic subtext - that Stormbringer grants him. In fact, the actual drugs he used to take in order to stay strong don't seem to have that sort of effect on him. 100% Moorcock's beliefs there. It's interesting how a lot of the stuff taken for granted in the books sounds kind of bad when held over your head in this game - the Eternal Champion for example, is basically Moorcock's ideas about protagonism in fiction. Although it's framed as a cosmic hero in his fantasy works, essentially every protagonist in every story ever told is one. It absolutely makes sense to me as well that you guys would be most interested in Chaos/Balance/Law. In some stories, Chaos is the more palatable option, and in others, it's Law. Clearly Chaos v. Law, both here and in Poul Anderson's novels, is the biggest take away for pop culture at large. Another thing is I believe Stormbringer was actually the first licensed RPG, if it wasn't Call of Cthulhu. I have absolutely no idea why they went with the really boring concept of playing a Purple Town fisherman or some poo poo because they had a model of how an RPG based on Moorcock's fantasies should look: The Quest for Tanelorn (which is actually a novel from another series about a guy named Hawkmoon) and Sailors on the Seas of Fate. They're about a party of different incarnations of the Eternal Champion teaming up to take down some sorcerer cosmic vampires from outside the multiverse, who are trying to consume everything. That's the perfect model! In the end, this game, although I do think it has it's place, is sort of like reading a badly written wikipedia article on the subject. Also as a fan of this stuff, I have to say your idea for an ancient Melnibonean game is actually pretty cool. I dunno if you guys do this sort of thing because I just started following you but I would be down for like, a podcast where you just grill me about Elric and the other Eternal Champion stuff. Feel free to brush me off if this seems like something pushy or forward to suggest. Lightning Lord fucked around with this message at 21:30 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 21:15
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About to finish running Phandelver for my group of 5. They love playing and enjoy the game, but one player is unimpressed by the Fighter, they are all very interested in Magic items, and want some customization. So we are promptly converting characters to Pathfinder and jumping ship. I'll miss Advantage/Disadvantage but other than that, I can't justify sticking with 5th Edition. To make this post worse, I absolutely loved 4th Edition and threw tons of money at it.
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May 12, 2015 22:50
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CDW posted:I'll miss Advantage/Disadvantage but other than that, I can't justify sticking with 5th Edition. Just don't give out bonuses for most stuff in PF and give Adv/Disadv instead. Probably won't break.
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May 12, 2015 22:56
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CDW posted:About to finish running Phandelver for my group of 5. This might be kind of a dumb question, but why PF instead of the edition you loved?
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May 13, 2015 00:09
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wallawallawingwang posted:This might be kind of a dumb question, but why PF instead of the edition you loved? I'd gueess it's the usual reason in cases like this...one guy likes 4E, nobody else will play it for various reasons.
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May 13, 2015 00:14
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Easier conceptual transition from 5th to PF than 4th.
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May 13, 2015 00:15
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CDW posted:About to finish running Phandelver for my group of 5.
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May 13, 2015 00:25
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Also, PF is all there on the internet.
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May 13, 2015 00:31
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PF does have slightly better Fighters than 3.x edition or 5th edition to be fair. Problem is that it's Rogues who are now beyond useless in PF.
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May 13, 2015 00:52
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Are rogues ever good in non-4e d&d?
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May 13, 2015 01:05
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Mr. Fortitude posted:PF does have slightly better Fighters than 3.x edition or 5th edition to be fair.
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May 13, 2015 01:06
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Problem is that it's Rogues who are now beyond useless in PF.
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May 13, 2015 01:36
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dwarf74 posted:I don't think this is the case. 5e Fighters lack in options, but the Battlemaster is still a big step up from PF Fighters, who manage to be both dull *and* terrible.
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May 13, 2015 02:33
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Pathfinder has 3rd party stuff to replace psionics and Tome of Battle that's pretty drat great, which launches it ahead of 5e. Also Paizo is way less lovely of a company.
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May 13, 2015 03:12
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