Phanatic posted:Posting these again because that's not true. People were fine with drinking water and generally knew which water was safe to drink and which would make you sick. And if you were diluting your wine and beer with water anyway, it'd still make you sick unless you had a clean souce. Perhaps you're right, although I guess there may be some argument to do with Wallenstein's time because the population was more urbanised. In any event the beer and wine was certainly weaker.
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May 12, 2015 14:29
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Cythereal posted:Yeah, it was just a joke about Japanese damage control (or lack thereof) in WW2. I wanted to rant about the Bismarck. And Japanese damage control overall wasn't as bad as carriers turning into torches and cruisers getting a face full of their own torpedoes when taking an unlucky hit might indicate. It helps when your damage control officers and water mains didn't get gutted in the first hit. Although I do still wonder why Kongo got so out of hand.
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May 12, 2015 14:33
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Gervasius posted:It also sprays remaining rocket fuel into a ship so that's added bonus as well. Have fun putting out that fire, damage control teams! Bah, it's not like rocket fuel can melt steel beams.
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May 12, 2015 14:42
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chitoryu12 posted:Even the MP 40 is more complex than you expect. It has a three-piece telescoping recoil buffer tube that contains the firing pin and its separate spring, and the bolt is a separate piece in front of it; the firing pin needs to pass through a hole in the bolt to reach the cartridge. It also uses a ton of screws for everything but the most basic field stripping requirements, so anything past separating the upper and lower receivers will likely require a tool and time; anyone well-versed in firearm construction will tell you to minimize the use of screws because of this. They even use double screw setups where a smaller screw prevents the big one from coming out if it gets loose. FAUXTON posted:That's because Nazis are twice as screwy as everyone else. Fangz posted:The things I like in particular, aside from the little awkward rollers that have to be inserted in precisely the right order, are Hearing all this stuff makes me think that even if the nazis had managed to acquire black gay magic space tech, they would still have lost the war because of how incompetent they were at, well everything actually related to the useful application of said technology. 
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May 12, 2015 14:45
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Disinterested posted:Perhaps you're right, although I guess there may be some argument to do with Wallenstein's time because the population was more urbanised. In any event the beer and wine was certainly weaker. Michel de Montaigne remarks upon the Germans not watering out their wine in his Essays (whereas the French did), and he was writing during the 16th century, fwiw Everyone should read the Essays, though, Montaigne has a mean pen and he's very relatable in many ways to a modern reader.
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May 12, 2015 15:09
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V. Illych L. posted:Michel de Montaigne remarks upon the Germans not watering out their wine in his Essays (whereas the French did), and he was writing during the 16th century, fwiw Even if you don't water down you don't nececessarily have everyone drinking export lager (or beer of equivalent strength), which is how most people imagine beer today.
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May 12, 2015 15:11
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People drank a lot of very low point (~2% abv) beer because it was very good hydration and pretty nutritious. It is similar in a lot of ways to modern sports drinks: some sugar and other carbohydrates, a lot of electrolytes that plants crave, tastes better than the local water which could be pretty gross. So, for a laborer who was sweating a lot out in a field or in a smith or something, it was a great thing to drink. It was also a very good way of storing food energy from grains; beer would keep fairly well especially if it was kept cold. Plus, you had the benefit of it being boiled; there isn't a lot of evidence that shows they connected this specifically with being safer, but they did generally "trust" beer more than water.
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May 12, 2015 15:24
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And we're going full circle, because I'm quoting again that the cemetries in European medieval cities were generally around the churches right within the city. Which makes for a funny taste in all the wells around. These cemeteries were a loving joke, especially the open massgraves for the poor that they'd only cover up when they were full.
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May 12, 2015 17:54
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JaucheCharly posted:open massgraves for the poor that they'd only cover up when they were full. ...with more bodies, I presume.
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May 12, 2015 18:06
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In Bill Bryson's book "At Home" there is a digression about why the local parish church yard is several feet higher than the base of the church. Well, it turns out the church has been there about 800 years or so, and you can expect from the population of the area (probably around 200 people more or less over that entire span) that they get a few burials a year, I forget how many. But the point is that for a town of 200ish there is probably ~10,000 people buried in the church yard.
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May 12, 2015 18:06
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Nenonen posted:...with more bodies, I presume. Yup. After some time, when everything was decomposed, they'd dig it up and put the bones in a Ossuary. These cemeteries weren't large and constantly full. A particularly foul smelling part of the city.
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May 12, 2015 18:13
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Phanatic posted:Vermouth is fortified wine, or at least it is today. Was it different then? V. Illych L. posted:Michel de Montaigne remarks upon the Germans not watering out their wine in his Essays (whereas the French did), and he was writing during the 16th century, fwiw HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 20:44 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 20:41
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JaucheCharly posted:Yup. After some time, when everything was decomposed, they'd dig it up and put the bones in a Ossuary. These cemeteries weren't large and constantly full. A particularly foul smelling part of the city. And from what I understand, extra happy fun times if there was heavy rain for a few days...landslides full of corpses.
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May 12, 2015 20:49
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You people complaining about cities have no idea how good you have it--try a big military camp, which is as large as a city but just tents and shacks. No infrastructure for water or sewage. Tilly had 24,000 soldiers in front of Magdeburg; Wallenstein 46,000 at the Battle of the Alte Veste. Then multiply each soldier by the number of people in his family or whatever.
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May 12, 2015 20:58
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HEY GAL posted:You people complaining about cities have no idea how good you have it--try a big military camp, which is as large as a city but just tents and shacks. No infrastructure for water or sewage. Tilly had 24,000 soldiers in front of Magdeburg; Wallenstein 46,000 at the Battle of the Alte Veste. Then multiply each soldier by the number of people in his family or whatever. What are the chances you convince any of them, let alone all, to not poo poo and piss in the nearby river?
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May 12, 2015 21:03
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Disinterested posted:What are the chances you convince any of them, let alone all, to not poo poo and piss in the nearby river? *waggles it back and forth a little* it's not like that's the only place they piss and poo poo, though
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May 12, 2015 21:11
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ah, the era where simply marshalling an army and marching it around qualifies as a war crime
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May 12, 2015 21:20
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V. Illych L. posted:ah, the era where simply marshalling an army and marching it around qualifies as a war crime raising the taxes to pay for it also possibly regarded as a crime and/or possibly a sin
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May 12, 2015 21:23
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Taxes? Oh honey. War funds itself. 
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May 12, 2015 21:29
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HEY GAL posted:You people complaining about cities have no idea how good you have it--try a big military camp, which is as large as a city but just tents and shacks. No infrastructure for water or sewage. Tilly had 24,000 soldiers in front of Magdeburg; Wallenstein 46,000 at the Battle of the Alte Veste. Then multiply each soldier by the number of people in his family or whatever. I think they're like big open air festivals with firearms and even more booze. Everyone should have seen the aftermath of 3-5 days of a shitload of people camping somewhere. It's absolutely disgusting and a testament to the fact that many people in one place without concrete everywhere is a bad idea. Several months of the ground torn open and making GBS threads into ditches? Yuck.
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May 12, 2015 21:32
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HEY GAL posted:Taxes? Oh honey. Tell that to Bullion.
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May 12, 2015 21:37
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JaucheCharly posted:I think they're like big open air festivals with firearms
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May 12, 2015 21:37
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Europe.pdf e: Oh. You meant reenactment stuff? I was thinking of music festivals.
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May 12, 2015 21:38
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JaucheCharly posted:I think they're like big open air festivals with firearms and even more booze. Everyone should have seen the aftermath of 3-5 days of a shitload of people camping somewhere. It's absolutely disgusting and a testament to the fact that many people in one place without concrete everywhere is a bad idea. Several months of the ground torn open and making GBS threads into ditches? Yuck. "Woop woop!" - Wallenstein
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May 12, 2015 21:39
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JaucheCharly posted:I was thinking of music festivals. smdh that you are not armed at all times, jauchecharly
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May 12, 2015 21:44
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JaucheCharly posted:I think they're like big open air festivals with firearms and even more booze. Everyone should have seen the aftermath of 3-5 days of a shitload of people camping somewhere. It's absolutely disgusting and a testament to the fact that many people in one place without concrete everywhere is a bad idea. Several months of the ground torn open and making GBS threads into ditches? Yuck. That's because the festival managers can't hang people.
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May 12, 2015 21:49
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They usually pat you down when you get in, but I have a baton in the car. You're right. I need a shamshir or a spear for at home.
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May 12, 2015 21:53
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JaucheCharly posted:I think they're like big open air festivals with firearms and even more booze. I believe Hey Gal once said it's like a Gathering of the Juggaloes, but drunker and not quite as well-armed.
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May 12, 2015 22:01
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vuk83 posted:Not really. The soviet troops where confined to quarters the most of the time. There was some disturbances but it was just drunk ivans. Fun fact, there was never any nato troops stationed on Bornholm and the bornholms værn which was responsible for the defense of Bornholm was not under the NATO chain of command. Not even during the initial occupation of the island? I thought that's when things were a bit rough for the inhabitants.
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May 12, 2015 22:21
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It was invaded by the soviets on may the 9th 45. The germans put up a short fight but nothing serious. The war was over and the soviets where probably allready concerned about the optics of the situation.
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May 12, 2015 22:39
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vuk83 posted:It was invaded by the soviets on may the 9th 45. The germans put up a short fight but nothing serious. The war was over and the soviets where probably allready concerned about the optics of the situation. In May 1945 the Soviets were definitely not concerned with things like that.
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May 12, 2015 22:54
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Its probably a dumb question, but during conflicts like the ACW (19th century in general), did cavalry carry any lances with them, or did they rely on the saber when guns weren't an option any more? (ran out of ammo, or jammed or whatever, imagine a really really lovely situation where they can't retreat or something) what was their last resort weapon?
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May 12, 2015 23:21
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Fizzil posted:Its probably a dumb question, but during conflicts like the ACW (19th century in general), did cavalry carry any lances with them, or did they rely on the saber when guns weren't an option any more? (ran out of ammo, or jammed or whatever, imagine a really really lovely situation where they can't retreat or something) what was their last resort weapon? It wasn't uncommon for a cavalryman to have several pistols and/or spare cylinders about his person with a few more strapped to his saddle. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 23:28 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 23:26
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Fizzil posted:Its probably a dumb question, but during conflicts like the ACW (19th century in general), did cavalry carry any lances with them, or did they rely on the saber when guns weren't an option any more? (ran out of ammo, or jammed or whatever, imagine a really really lovely situation where they can't retreat or something) what was their last resort weapon? The lance did survive outside of the American civil war. Pictured:  a useful weapon for its age
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May 12, 2015 23:28
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You said 19th century but I'm assuming you meant 'generally modern', so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tvLJbug_cg&t=560s WW1 lancers
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May 12, 2015 23:29
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eh the soviets invaded northern norway as well in 1945 and were well enough behaved that people up there still vote communist they just really hated the germans
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May 12, 2015 23:29
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Depends on where and when. AFAIK American cavalry was not really in love with lances, but lancer formations were quite popular in European warfare pretty much until World War I. You have lancers/uhlans/chevauxlegers of all kinds in the Napoleonic Wars, iconography supports the claim that the Light Brigade at Balaclava also had those, the Russian Cossacks definitely did, so it's still present at the Crimean War. Here's the Germans and the Russians at Tannenberg (1914) with lances. After World War I the lances were still standard issue equipment in many cavalry forces. Poland definitely had uhlan regiments with lances in World War II, I suppose Soviet cavalrymen had them too (although this is a guess). EDIT: and naturally this touches upon the intended roles of the cavalry and the role of the charge in its operations, which varied according to doctrine.
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May 12, 2015 23:33
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Thanks alot for the answers, thats really enlightening. Although to narrow it down, specifically the USA between the ACW and WW1, where lances used at all? and why such a big difference between Europe and America?
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May 13, 2015 00:37
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Fizzil posted:Thanks alot for the answers, thats really enlightening. Although to narrow it down, specifically the USA between the ACW and WW1, where lances used at all? and why such a big difference between Europe and America? After the ACW, the main use of American cavalry was killing Indians, so carbines were far more useful than lances.
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May 13, 2015 00:40
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Fizzil posted:Thanks alot for the answers, thats really enlightening. Although to narrow it down, specifically the USA between the ACW and WW1, where lances used at all? and why such a big difference between Europe and America? Militaries in part governed by colonial experience. Emphasis on attack because of lack of large scale total industrial war experience. Tradition.
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May 13, 2015 00:46
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