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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:First, moralizing about individual nobles is dumb as hell and a waste of time. All nobles are bad. Agreed. Bring back the Brotherhood without Banners. No war but class war
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May 13, 2015 20:49
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Bobo the Red posted:Excuse me for thinking committing murder makes you a bad person. Murder? Nah. Cat's murder charge would be downgraded to voluntary manslaughter due to extenuating circumstances and provocation.
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May 13, 2015 20:49
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Hexel posted:She was hot though. Better to die happy than live miserable married to Fat Wanda Frey Breaker of Chairs
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May 13, 2015 20:50
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AKA Pseudonym posted:Breaker of Chairs
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May 13, 2015 20:56
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:Agreed. Bring back the Brotherhood without Banners. No war but class war They're gonna be Stannis' trump card in the Riverlands after he dispenses the Boltons.
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May 13, 2015 21:16
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The Brotherhood had great potential to be the cool peasant revolutionaries and then they sold a kid to a murder priestess and kinda undermined their whole schtickDOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:First, moralizing about individual nobles is dumb as hell and a waste of time. All nobles are bad. Second, Robert didn't actually extinguish the Targs - that decision was made by Tywin when he ordered Elia and her children killed. Robert clearly wanted the Targs dead, since once he knew two were alive, he ordered them assassinated.
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May 13, 2015 22:01
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Lloyd Boner posted:Roose seems pretty happy with his marriage to me. Only because he knows he can go out and rape some peasent woman against the tree he hung her family on. I am sure he would let ramsey join in too.
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May 14, 2015 00:09
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Bobo the Red posted:Oh man, I just remembered that Cat straight up murdered a girl out of pure spite. Guess that's where Arya gets that. Bobo the Red posted:The Brotherhood had great potential to be the cool peasant revolutionaries and then they sold a kid to a murder priestess and kinda undermined their whole schtick Whenever I see drivel like this in the thread, I try to imagine a Game of Thrones where characters are actually morally acceptable circa 2015. The Red Wedding would have been great if it ended with Cat letting that girl go, and then making an impassioned but completely rationale speech about how killing is wrong and she was bluffing because she'd never take the life of a rival house member who hadn't personally wronged her. All while surrounded by the corpses of everyone she's ever loved, and being filled with crossbow bolts. Or the brotherhood sleeping soundly at night, because they know they that golly, they just did the right thing. Right before all getting murdered by shadow babies. The few survivors of course will starve and get caught by the Lannisters due to being utterly destitute and without supplies. It must be a thrill watching any kind of media with you.
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May 14, 2015 01:25
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counterfeitsaint posted:Or the brotherhood sleeping soundly at night, because they know they that golly, they just did the right thing. Right before all getting murdered by shadow babies. That doesn't seem to happen very often unless your name is Renly, to be fair, and it's not like the guy who sold them out can't just respawn.
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May 14, 2015 01:42
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Lol @ the spergs in this thread actually debating the morals of a character in loving game of thrones of all things
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May 14, 2015 02:00
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counterfeitsaint posted:Whenever I see drivel like this in the thread, I try to imagine a Game of Thrones where characters are actually morally acceptable circa 2015. The Red Wedding would have been great if it ended with Cat letting that girl go, and then making an impassioned but completely rationale speech about how killing is wrong and she was bluffing because she'd never take the life of a rival house member who hadn't personally wronged her. All while surrounded by the corpses of everyone she's ever loved, and being filled with crossbow bolts. Or the brotherhood sleeping soundly at night, because they know they that golly, they just did the right thing. Right before all getting murdered by shadow babies. The few survivors of course will starve and get caught by the Lannisters due to being utterly destitute and without supplies. Sorry for using the game of thrones discussion thread to discuss game of thrones
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May 14, 2015 02:34
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Bobo the Red posted:Sorry for using the game of thrones discussion thread to discuss game of thrones Sorry that nobody is actually saying that you can't talk about game of thrones, and you are actually being a stupid autist for vehemently debating about a woman being some sort of hypocrite or whatever in a tv show where one of the main themes is moral ambiguity
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May 14, 2015 02:50
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Bobo the Red posted:Sorry for using the game of thrones discussion thread to discuss game of thrones that response is weak as gently caress he pretty much cut right to the heart of it and you came out with a standard boilerplate internet line everyone has heard a hundred times before.
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May 14, 2015 03:09
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Mr. Unlucky posted:that response is weak as gently caress he pretty much cut right to the heart of it and you came out with a standard boilerplate internet line everyone has heard a hundred times before. I would have given it a real response if he hadn't made his response weirdly personal  Debating the morality of the characters isn't weird, it's a thing some people do to pass the times between episodes. No one actually cares about these things, this is all silly bullshit. You can all be moral relativists and think "well, we certainly we cannot judge the characters of this fictional world by our own morals' if you want, and I can judge her or not however the gently caress I want, and it would all be fine if it hadn't gotten weird and personal, and in at least one case, involved being lovely to people with autism for no reason. The ignore function exists, if it's so deeply offensive to you or anyone else.
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May 14, 2015 04:04
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I'd rather speculate on whos butt we see next
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May 14, 2015 04:16
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I'm gonna go for the wildcard and say Tyrion.
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May 14, 2015 04:35
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Jorah's stonebutt.
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May 14, 2015 04:51
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All I can say is if you rely on GOT for moral fiber, prepare to have the runs.whoflungpoop posted:I'd rather speculate on whos butt we see Me too.
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May 14, 2015 04:55
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whoflungpoop posted:I'd rather speculate on whos butt we see next No one's (jaqen)
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May 14, 2015 05:04
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Bobo the Red posted:No one's (jaqen) A man must squat.
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May 14, 2015 05:23
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:Second, Robert didn't actually extinguish the Targs - that decision was made by Tywin when he ordered Elia and her children killed. There was an entire sequence late in season 4 where this is literally shouted over and over again so it's pretty amazing you still have to point it out. Also to the people that think Rob was dumb for not siding with a Baratheon - he couldn't. His lords all swore fealty to him based on them deciding that this was the chance to establish Northern independence, and Robb correctly sensed that he couldn't turn down them anointing him the King of the North without losing momentum for his war against the Lannisters. It was the one time Robb didn't display a total lack of political acumen.
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May 14, 2015 05:26
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Jerusalem posted:A man must squat. All men must squat.
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May 14, 2015 05:30
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Robb should have taken his own advice and been patient enough to marry total babe Roslin Frey and thereby keep his army intact and chances of winning alive. Edmure got the last laugh there.
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May 14, 2015 05:31
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hiddenmovement posted:There was an entire sequence late in season 4 where this is literally shouted over and over again so it's pretty amazing you still have to point it out. It's not like Robert was interested in repatriating Daenerys and Vyseris when he learned about them. He ordered them assassinated. Tywin likely reached the same conclusion Robert would have. He was great at anticipating needs  Plus, Robert is the one who killed the Crown Prince, so he clearly started it hiddenmovement posted:Also to the people that think Rob was dumb for not siding with a Baratheon - he couldn't. His lords all swore fealty to him based on them deciding that this was the chance to establish Northern independence, and Robb correctly sensed that he couldn't turn down them anointing him the King of the North without losing momentum for his war against the Lannisters. It was the one time Robb didn't display a total lack of political acumen. Eh, I don't think they would've turned against him if he did his duty, since it's probably what Ned would've done. He would just have had an awkward moment like Jon Snow did where he has to be like, "hey guys cool it, you're embarrassing me"
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May 14, 2015 06:06
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Bobo the Red posted:You don't need Targaryen blood to overthrow the Targaryen line. Robert had no claim to the Targaryen throne, which is why he extinguished it and created a Baratheon dynasty. Robert's grandmother was Rhaelle Targaryen (Daenerys's great aunt, so she's Robert's second cousin), so with all the known Targaryen children dead Robert is actually the only legitimate heir to the throne following the death of Aerys II and the kiddos. Which ignoring Daenerys actually makes Stannis the only legitimate king for realsies. Dolphin fucked around with this message at 06:11 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 06:08
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Dolphin posted:No plot spoilers whatsoever, but if you care about not knowing ANYthing other than show stuff don't read: I appreciate the spoilers, but lots of people have brought up his family line. I get that that would make him the legitimate heir if he hadn't killed everyone ahead of him. Once you do that, I assume you're no longer lined up for succession, because that'd be crazy (Tyrion would be Lord of Casterly Rock!). In real world examples of monarchies/nobility, you can lose your place in line for way smaller infractions. I guess Westeros could have completely insane lax rules about that, but it would be weird. You can still end up king, which Robert did, and if you do, you can claim legitimacy to your heart's content, because you're the king. That gets harder to sell when someone with a better claim comes around and you try to murder her, though.... Basically, as I see it, Stannis and Tommen are at war for the Baratheon dynasty; Daenerys wants to reestablish the Targaryen dynasty (though, she also killed the one ahead of her, so...).
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May 14, 2015 07:27
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Bobo the Red posted:Basically, as I see it, Stannis and Tommen are at war for the Baratheon dynasty; Daenerys wants to reestablish the Targaryen dynasty (though, she also killed the one ahead of her, so...). Technically, that was Drogo.  I think the reason Littlefinger even matters in this show is because dynasty and birthright don't *actually* matter. People like to say they do, but when it comes to it, they back who they like or who offers them the best option. Mance Rayder was a king for offering the best leadership. Robert was a king for beating the previous one. Renly wanted to be a king because he was just such a chill guy. Robb wanted to be a king because screw the Lannisters and screw the south. How entitled they were didn't play into it; above all else in this society, might makes right. How "legitimate" any of these options were at the time seems more like narrative than a relevant fact.
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May 14, 2015 08:11
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Re-watching the Stannis/Shireen hug from the previous episode, I just noticed that either Shireen gets her own theme music or any Stannis + Shireen scene gets its own music. It's a rendition of the little song she sings in season 3.
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May 14, 2015 08:11
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Zippy the Bummer posted:Re-watching the Stannis/Shireen hug from the previous episode, I just noticed that either Shireen gets her own theme music or any Stannis + Shireen scene gets its own music. It's a rendition of the little song she sings in season 3. Can't wait for the triumph version when she gets crowned queen.
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May 14, 2015 08:24
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counterfeitsaint posted:All men must squat. Syrio: There is only one God - leg day, and what do we say to him?
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May 14, 2015 08:48
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I really love the metaphysical aspects of this show. The gods of this world don't really give a poo poo about anyone. Every complicated character you love is just a pawn in the grand scheme of things..
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May 14, 2015 08:51
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Carver Crisis posted:I really love the metaphysical aspects of this show. The gods of this world don't really give a poo poo about anyone. Every complicated character you love is just a pawn in the grand scheme of things..
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May 14, 2015 08:58
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Bobo the Red posted:I get that that would make him the legitimate heir if he hadn't killed everyone ahead of him. Once you do that, I assume you're no longer lined up for succession, because that'd be crazy (Tyrion would be Lord of Casterly Rock!). In real world examples of monarchies/nobility, you can lose your place in line for way smaller infractions. I guess Westeros could have completely insane lax rules about that, but it would be weird. I'm Scottish and so I have a banknote in my wallet right now with a picture of Robert the Bruce, King of Scots on it. Our greatest national hero, the man who defeated the English at Bannockburn 700 years ago. A man who stabbed his cousin to death in front of the altar of a church to get on the throne. I don't know where you get the idea that murdering rival claimants disqualifies you from inheritance. If you have an army to back up your claim it doesn't matter how many people you murder.
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May 14, 2015 09:13
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Robert was the legitimate king by right of conquest. Having a really old bloodline tie to the Targaryens to make it look authentic was just a bonus.
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May 14, 2015 09:20
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JT Jag posted:Robert was the legitimate king by right of conquest. Having a really old bloodline tie to the Targaryens to make it look authentic was just a bonus. Several people could have been king by right of conquest. Tywin Lannister, Jon Arryn, and Ned Stark all had armies and all fought against the Mad King(some more than others). The reason Robert was the one who assumed the throne is because he had a claim on it. It wasn't a great claim, but any claim is better than no claim. "I'm the King because my mother's mother's father was the King" sounds stupid but it's 1000 times better than "I'm the King because I killed the old King". If you're the King because you killed the old King, the lords under you will think one of two things. Some of them will think "If he's the King because he killed the old King, what's to stop me from killing him and being the King?" and some of them will think "If I'm a Lord because my father was a Lord, but the King is the King because he killed the old King, what's to stop someone from killing me, and becoming a Lord?" Neither of these are things you want your subordinates to be thinking, so any kind of claim you can come up with, no matter how tenuous, will reduce the number of enemies you have. If you're the King solely because of your personal military strength, then you only remain King so long as you are the strongest. If you're the King because of tradition, however, and all your Lords are Lords because of tradition, then it's in everyone's best interest to keep the tradition running, even if it's a lie and everyone really knows that you wouldn't be the King if you hadn't put old King's head on a pike. It shows that the war was only a minor hiccup, and things will return to how they used to be, just with a different man in charge.
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May 14, 2015 09:40
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I was expecting Jon Snow to get hosed up against a wall at least once in this new episode. Seriously the sexual tension was off the charts! I’m so disappointed, but definitely not surprised.
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May 14, 2015 09:49
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By Tormund?
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May 14, 2015 10:50
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Boing posted:By Tormund? Potato Kid had that gleam in his eye 
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May 14, 2015 10:52
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Dolorous Edd x Jon OTP.
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May 14, 2015 11:17
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A Buttery Pastry posted:The real reason Wanda wants the Iron Throne. Walda :spiceking:
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May 14, 2015 11:18
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