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Rev. Dr. Moses P. Lester posted:I work on Piaggios, Vespas, Guzzis and Aprilias fairly often, though mostly the scooters. They're the most annoying brand to work on and get parts for, all of them. They're all badly engineered, badly manufactured and they distribute parts poorly. Our local market lost its Aprilia and Vespa dealers recently. I sent in an application for an Aprilia franchise for our shop, not really being serious about it because our shop is probably not big enough to support the brand, but I was curious what their demands would be. I went through the motions on the application, though, and they didn't even do the courtesy of saying "no." No response at all. Have you ever worked on one of the Piaggio BV 350's? I was looking at one sorta serious there for a while and wondered what you thought of them.
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May 6, 2015 14:33
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Wait, AXONE has been cracked? The one thing keeping me from getting a Mana for myself or my fiancee is the required reprogramming at the dealer. I've read through and through the manual belt change guides and it seems very possible, especially with a tiny bit of welding on a special tool, but spending $250-600 for a reprogramming session is out of the question. Is there a third-party tool now that can be hand for less than $1k?
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May 6, 2015 15:00
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Can you talk a little more about the Mana belt stuff? I rented one for a day and it was the cat's pajamas.
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May 6, 2015 15:10
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Geirskogul posted:Wait, AXONE has been cracked? The one thing keeping me from getting a Mana for myself or my fiancee is the required reprogramming at the dealer. I've read through and through the manual belt change guides and it seems very possible, especially with a tiny bit of welding on a special tool, but spending $250-600 for a reprogramming session is out of the question. Yes and no. Most third-party diagnostic tools can read it but changing maps on the DBW bikes is still out of the question. Given the Mana is a Gilera engine I've no idea how that changes things.
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May 6, 2015 15:12
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Coredump posted:Can you talk a little more about the Mana belt stuff? I rented one for a day and it was the cat's pajamas. Belt change every 12k miles (give or take 3-5k), when the belt nears "end of life" the bike will eventually go into limp mode limited to 50mph. Changing the belt can be accomplished with hand tools and ingenuity in a day, or in an hour or two with special tools. However, once the belt is changed you need to reset the belt wear potentiometer, and re-learn shifts (?) by propping the tire up and having it run a sequence. Said reset and sequence can only be done by computer, though I've read conflicting reports whether or not the old piaggio system or AXONE is required. http://www.apriliaforum.com/forums/showthread.php?223818-People-wanted-pics-of-the-belt-tools
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May 7, 2015 16:28
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Wow, that doesnt look or sound ridiculous at all!!
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May 7, 2015 16:39
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Geirskogul posted:Belt change every 12k miles (give or take 3-5k), when the belt nears "end of life" the bike will eventually go into limp mode limited to 50mph. Changing the belt can be accomplished with hand tools and ingenuity in a day, or in an hour or two with special tools. However, once the belt is changed you need to reset the belt wear potentiometer, and re-learn shifts (?) by propping the tire up and having it run a sequence. Said reset and sequence can only be done by computer, though I've read conflicting reports whether or not the old piaggio system or AXONE is required. Jesus christ
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May 7, 2015 17:08
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Geirskogul posted:Belt change every 12k miles (give or take 3-5k), when the belt nears "end of life" the bike will eventually go into limp mode limited to 50mph. Changing the belt can be accomplished with hand tools and ingenuity in a day, or in an hour or two with special tools. However, once the belt is changed you need to reset the belt wear potentiometer, and re-learn shifts (?) by propping the tire up and having it run a sequence. Said reset and sequence can only be done by computer, though I've read conflicting reports whether or not the old piaggio system or AXONE is required. hahahahahahahahaha never NEVER I'm about as far from an anti-technology/anti gadgets guy as you can get, but holy poo poo gently caress that forever. At my Aprilia/KTM dealership, I once walked in on an incredible rant by one of the service guys about how changing Mana drive belts. It was impressive in both length and ire, easily a 3x multiplier on your typical "loving honda engineering" rant. Z3n fucked around with this message at 17:41 on May 7, 2015 |
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May 7, 2015 17:39
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That's what happens when you make a scooter gearbox deal with big-boy amounts of power. As far as I know all the hyperscoots have similar problems - it's one of the reasons CVTs never made it into the mainstream despite their advantages over conventional transmissions. FWIW the transmission and engine are Gilera, not Aprilia.
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May 7, 2015 20:54
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That is the bike version of the AWD systems found on the likes of X5's, ML's, Q7's and such. Retarded and complicated and pointless and exists only to try and make *thing* be more like *completely unrelated thing* for marketing purposes. Engineering like that makes my blood boil.
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May 7, 2015 23:25
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's what happens when you make a scooter gearbox deal with big-boy amounts of power. As far as I know all the hyperscoots have similar problems - it's one of the reasons CVTs never made it into the mainstream despite their advantages over conventional transmissions. Yo what's your opinion of the hydraulic CVT in Honda's thing? (I can't actually recall exactly what bike it is, was either a maxiscooter or some kind of ridiculous flat 6 cruiser or some hybrid of both, iirc) I like the idea but mainly because I'm attracted to complicated whirligigs with theoretically high efficiency numbers.
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May 7, 2015 23:46
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goddamnedtwisto posted:That's what happens when you make a scooter gearbox deal with big-boy amounts of power. As far as I know all the hyperscoots have similar problems - it's one of the reasons CVTs never made it into the mainstream despite their advantages over conventional transmissions. Its not the horsepower. Cars with much more weight and power have cvt's and do fine. The mana is what happens when two already Italian companies get together and double the gently caress down on being Italian. Beve Stuscemi fucked around with this message at 01:52 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 01:49
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Renaissance Robot posted:I like the idea but mainly because I'm attracted to complicated whirligigs with theoretically high efficiency numbers. Do you drive a VAG or subaru that is constantly broken and tell people how when it's working properly it's 5% more powerful and efficient than a comparable conventional car? Jim Silly-Balls posted:Its not the horsepower. Cars with much more weight and power have cvt's and do fine. It's the fact that it's a scaled up scooter drivetrain with a lovely rubber belt instead of an oil-immersed chain like a car.
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May 8, 2015 01:55
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Slavvy posted:Do you drive a VAG or subaru that is constantly broken and tell people how when it's working properly it's 5% more powerful and efficient than a comparable conventional car? Haha, no because I have no money. Point taken though. (but if I did have the money I probably would get a VW or something  not a subaru though, around here they just get nicked instantly because  )
Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 06:13 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 06:09
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Coredump posted:Have you ever worked on one of the Piaggio BV 350's? I was looking at one sorta serious there for a while and wondered what you thought of them.
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May 9, 2015 02:07
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Cross post from the schadenfreude thread.Staryberry posted:http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/motorcycle-crash-kills-ex-georgia-lawmaker-who-tried-to-eliminate-helmet-regulations/
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May 9, 2015 07:40
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The wreck doesn't look too bad. I'm honestly surprised that he was killed, unless he wasn't wearing a helmet.
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May 9, 2015 16:03
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No. 6 posted:The wreck doesn't look too bad. I'm honestly surprised that he was killed, unless he wasn't wearing a helmet. You can die with or without a helmet just from falling over at a stop while on your motorcycle. Any six-foot uncontrolled fall of you head is bad.
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May 10, 2015 00:49
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Geirskogul posted:You can die with or without a helmet just from falling over at a stop while on your motorcycle. Any six-foot uncontrolled fall of you head is bad. Maybe if the helmet is made out of paper yea.
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May 10, 2015 02:32
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Chichevache posted:Cross post from the schadenfreude thread. Good.
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May 10, 2015 02:48
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Slavvy posted:It's the fact that it's a scaled up scooter drivetrain with a lovely rubber belt instead of an oil-immersed chain like a car. I thought it had more to do with the fact it servos or something to give it fake gears and what not.
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May 11, 2015 01:08
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Cars do that too 
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May 11, 2015 07:35
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Coredump posted:I thought it had more to do with the fact it servos or something to give it fake gears and what not. Nah, that's just the cherry on the turd - it 's why you need AXONE or something, to tell the ECU that the belt has been reset and i needs to recalibrate the servos.
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May 11, 2015 08:57
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Renaissance Robot posted:Yo what's your opinion of the hydraulic CVT in Honda's thing? (I can't actually recall exactly what bike it is, was either a maxiscooter or some kind of ridiculous flat 6 cruiser or some hybrid of both, iirc) If you're referring to Honda's dual-clutch transmission technology, I can attest that it's loving awesome. None of the downsides of belt-based CVTs, all of the awesomeness of manual transmission besides fancy clutch control. It's not for everyone but I really enjoy it.
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May 13, 2015 22:42
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Radbot posted:If you're referring to Honda's dual-clutch transmission technology, I can attest that it's loving awesome. None of the downsides of belt-based CVTs, all of the awesomeness of manual transmission besides fancy clutch control. It's not for everyone but I really enjoy it. I don't understand how it works. So is it like having an automatic transmission, or is it different?
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May 13, 2015 23:10
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Lynza posted:I don't understand how it works. So is it like having an automatic transmission, or is it different? It's a computer controlled manual transmission, essentially. There are two full auto modes, and a manual mode where shifting is accomplished via buttons near the left grip. Coming to a stop just means the computer will shift you down to first gear if you aren't already there, and then automatically clutch in at a stop. It's pretty similar to Volkswagen DSG. The great part is that it doesn't feel slushy at all like most automatic transmissions.
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May 13, 2015 23:14
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It seems like that'd be awesome for people who commute in stop and go traffic (like me). It's the same reason I appreciate automatic transmission in a car.
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May 14, 2015 00:13
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I can't speak for bike DSG because I've never ridden one, but all the car ones I've driven have been horribly shuddery and jerky at low speeds and generally unpleasant in every way unless you're absolutely blasting. I have no idea how similar Honda's system is or how it behaves though. No clutch-up wheelies that way too.
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May 14, 2015 07:42
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I think it was Ola who test rode one and thought it was pretty great? EDIT: yup. Ola posted:Tried a Honda NC700S today. They had the NC700X as well, but it didn't have the auto box which was what I wanted to try. It was a pretty nice ride. Nidhg00670000 fucked around with this message at 10:22 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 10:19
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I think that's a fair assessment. The fuel economy is ridiculous - 62 MPG is my average, and I'm a fatass who loves to ride in the mountains. The top end power is lacking and you won't be doing any sweet wheelies but it's the perfect everyday bike for the corporate analyst with a wild hair, IMO. I just think it's crazy I got the bike with DCT and ABS for $7k OTD.
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May 14, 2015 14:54
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I had a car with a DSG and it was awesome. Full engine braking capability. Instant shifts under power. Granny mode for when I'm sitting in traffic. The downside was that, with the power upgrades I had done to the engine, the cooling for the transmission wasn't quite holding up for a full track session. It would go into granny mode about 3/4 of the way through. And fluid changes were $200 for Audi's moon oil. Probably not problems you'd have on a modest Honda though.
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May 14, 2015 16:27
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Radbot posted:If you're referring to Honda's dual-clutch transmission technology Nope! I managed to find the thing I was thinking of, it's their weird space-bike concept-looking DN-01, with what Honda call "human friendly transmission". It's basically a fancy scooter automatic (using hydraulics instead of a belt) that also has a manual setting that gives you six "gears". The  The  e/ The fact that they only put it in one concept bike and one production bike should probably tell me everything I need to know, huh? Renaissance Robot fucked around with this message at 18:46 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 18:43
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Hmmmmm I wonder which party is at-fault here...
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May 14, 2015 18:44
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Probably the bike.
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May 14, 2015 19:54
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What the gently caress is on the road? The exploded body of a former rider?
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May 14, 2015 20:04
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My assumption is the stuff to soak up oil/gas
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May 14, 2015 20:07
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Looks like cat litter to absorb oil and gas from the wreck.
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May 14, 2015 20:08
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Speaking of accidents I saw a motorcycle taking a nap on the middle of the 580 here in the bay area. There was a higher flow of traffic too and its kinda scary to think about what would happen if I had a lowside in the middle of the highway during rush because even if I am a ATGATT guy, nothing will protect me from incoming traffic. And no, I didn't see the driver of the motorcycle.
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May 14, 2015 20:17
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Renaissance Robot posted:e/ The fact that they only put it in one concept bike and one production bike should probably tell me everything I need to know, huh? I guess? This transmission was replaced by the Honda DCT.
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May 14, 2015 20:42
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Radbot posted:I guess? This transmission was replaced by the Honda DCT. Weren't they supposed to be building a bike engine that used a nutating plate instead of a crankshaft, too? Seems like you could cut out a load of components and complexity by mating that directly to this transmission, although you'd need your engine oil to be the hydraulic fluid too and I don't know if that would be a problem. Anyway as clever (and reliable) as that system is it's heavy and really awkward to package, hence the anal-probe looks of the DN-01. DCTs are a known technology from the car field and probably give you the best possible compromise between reliability, longevity, and responsiveness if you're going to be going for an auto box. Do the NCs have a centrifugal clutch final drive or an auto clutch? Centrifugal clutches seem to take for ever to bite and make low-speed riding a bit of a pain.
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May 14, 2015 21:50
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