|
THE PENETRATOR posted:
 "You calling me craaaaazz-y? Ha-HA!"
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 07:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 21:07 |
|
|
Thanks for the gif. I laughed a little.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 07:55
|
|
|
It's not bizarre reasoning, it's just part of that method. It's building on what the kids do earlier with sorting beads into groups of ten and the like and the logic/process stays consistent as it gets more complex. It's replacing rote approach to simple mathematics with teaching fundamental concepts like base 10 in more detail. The question is written in a lovely way though.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 07:59
|
|
|
you don't need to do such weird poo poo with addition, though breaking down multiplication and using ur tables is very important for mental math but addition... what the ufk?C
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 08:04
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 08:53
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 09:08
|
|
|
5'd. This really is the next evolution of that Futurama bot.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 09:14
|
|
|
Trent posted:It reads like a stupid riddle out of context, I guess. Modern Day Hercules posted:Not really, it's the way most people do math mentally they just don't write it down and realize it. If I asked to you add 1127 to 94 you drat sure wouldn't be doing it in your head the way you'd do it on paper. Unoriginal Name posted:(8+2)+3=(10)+3 76+ 56 ==== 132 The way I learned, you go 6+6=12, write down 2 and carry 1, add the 1 to the 7 then add the 5 to the resulting 8 and write down 13. The other way you take 2 from the 6 to make 4, write down the 2 and carry the 10. You add the 10 to the tens column giving you 1+7+5, and then... you add the 1 to the 7 to make 8, realise that 8+2=10 and take the 2 from the 5, giving you 3 (which you write down), and then you carry the 10 to the next column as a 1? Is that how it works? That seems overly complicated.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 09:30
|
|
|
Go to hell, math!   It's the Cat of Amontillado!
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:00
|
|
|
The idea of common core maths, and teaching maths in that way, is that it exposes kids to the fundamentals of maths, rather than having kids grow up thinking that maths is about performing algorithms and only ever having a procedural understanding. It's the same problem with BEDMAS or PEMDAS or whatever it is you happened to learn at school - it bypasses actual mathematical thinking in favour of learning and following a procedure to get the right answer. It means that a lot of people will get simple questions like 9 - 2 + 3 wrong, because they don't understand and never learned what addition and subtraction actually are (if you think the answer is 4 then you're one of these people). In the example from that picture, like some people have said, kids will learn that 8 + 5 is the same as 8 + 2 + 3, which is exposing them to the associative properties of addition and (later) multiplication. That question is poorly worded and standardised tests are dumb in general for this reason, the teacher marked it wrong because (presumably) the kid has learned about "making tens" in class but didn't show it on the test. anyway, a funny picture: 
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:06
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:The way I learned, you go 6+6=12, write down 2 and carry 1 "write down 2 and carry 1" is the same thing as "take out 2 and make 10", just with somewhat different phrasing. The first is putting emphasis on the procedure - write the numbers out in a grid, add columns of single digit numbers. The latter is intended to put emphasis on the concept of a tens digit as distinct from just another column of numbers, and later by extension, hundreds, thousands, etc. One of the ideas behind the common core math stuff is that the concepts are relatively more important than the procedure. It is a good thing, even if people who grew up focused on the procedure don't like it.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:17
|
|
|
The problem with this question is that there's absolutely no context for how you're actually supposed to solve it. It sounds like a trick question and doesn't teach the intended lesson at all. The fact that there's even this multi-page argument about it is a testament to how unnecessarily confusing it is, and it's even math, which SHOULD be the most concrete science there is. Unnecessary abstraction is never a good thing. Save the 'broader thinking' lessons for something like creative writing instead of confusing these poor kids and turning them off math even more.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:19
|
|
|
Obviously we need to start students off with propositional calculus and build everything up from there.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:24
|
|
|
Alabaster White posted:The problem with this question is that there's absolutely no context for how you're actually supposed to solve it. It sounds like a trick question and doesn't teach the intended lesson at all. The fact that there's even this multi-page argument about it is a testament to how unnecessarily confusing it is, and it's even math, which SHOULD be the most concrete science there is. Unnecessary abstraction is never a good thing. Save the 'broader thinking' lessons for something like creative writing instead of confusing these poor kids and turning them off math even more.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:33
|
|
|
Forgall posted:There's no context because you weren't in the class where it was taught. Yeah, exactly. Math shouldn't NEED context. It's loving math. You should be able to look at it and solve it without fuzzy logic or these bizarre thought patterns that would give a sphinx a boner. We've all learned math by the usual method since forever, so why bother overcomplicating it now?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:42
|
|
|
breaks posted:"write down 2 and carry 1" is the same thing as "take out 2 and make 10", just with somewhat different phrasing. No it isn't. 6+6=12 is simple addition, one step. The other way you have to start with 10-6=4, then 6-4=2 to get to the same answer. 
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:47
|
|
|
Uhm, it's actually maths. No wonder you have problems with simple addition. Jesus Christ. Here's a funny picture. 
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:50
|
|
|
Alabaster White posted:The problem with this question is that there's absolutely no context for how you're actually supposed to solve it. It sounds like a trick question and doesn't teach the intended lesson at all. The fact that there's even this multi-page argument about it is a testament to how unnecessarily confusing it is, and it's even math, which SHOULD be the most concrete science there is. Unnecessary abstraction is never a good thing. Save the 'broader thinking' lessons for something like creative writing instead of confusing these poor kids and turning them off math even more. There's no context if you haven't been taught with this method. For the kids doing an exam such as this they've been 'making tens' before they even deal with addition written on paper. It starts with them doing the same thing physically with beads (combining amounts together, grouping them into groups of ten), then other visual representations of quantities being added together and this is the very end of it when they translate it to paper. There's much more context there than just being asked to rote learn a list a sums or a procedure to follow blindly. With addition you are combining quantities, with base 10 mathematics you are grouping things by powers of ten, this is what they are doing. It's not 'unnecessary abstraction' or 'broader thinking' but the most basic mathematical principles in action. The question isn't even about getting the answer 13. It's a teacher doing a lovely job of writing a test for students to show they are competent with the 'making 10' step of the process.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 10:57
|
|
|
Alabaster White posted:Yeah, exactly. Math shouldn't NEED context. It's loving math. You should be able to look at it and solve it without fuzzy logic or these bizarre thought patterns that would give a sphinx a boner. We've all learned math by the usual method since forever, so why bother overcomplicating it now? 
Forgall has a new favorite as of 11:09 on May 14, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 11:03
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:No it isn't. 6+6=12 is simple addition, one step. The other way you have to start with 10-6=4, then 6-4=2 to get to the same answer. 6+6=12 is not any different between the "old way" and common core. poo poo, the common core standards explicitly specify that students should have the sums of all pairs of single digit numbers memorized. What's different is what you said the first time. When discussion addition in a broader sense, the traditional way focuses on the "carry the 1" - the mechanical procedure of addition, observing an immutable problem and calculating an answer by totaling up columns of single digit numbers. Common core focuses on the "make 10" - the concept of a tens digit, the properties of addition, reasoning about the properties of an equation and how to manipulate it into a more easily solvable form. Common core is not a curriculum and there are certainly plenty of examples of lovely implementation. The picture that was posted had a poor question and a worse response from the teacher. But the standards themselves are pretty solid. The idea behind them is the right way to go. It is good to teach kids the concepts of mathematics instead of how to be bad computers.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 11:19
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 11:22
|
|
|
I feel like I've seen a fresh shot of the 'Cats r hardcore' tattoo right-side up before, anyone have that handy? In any case, I love whomever those excellent tattoos are scratched onto.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 11:28
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 11:54
|
|
|
quote:To: Randall Munroe
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 12:10
|
|
|
ol qwerty bastard posted:Obviously we need to start students off with
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 13:18
|
|
|
Alabaster White posted:Yeah, exactly. Math shouldn't NEED context. It's loving math. I bet you argued with the teacher about showing your work, didn't you? MATH(S) work irrespective of context, sure. But this is schoolwork. You aren't demonstrating that you can summon the correct answer from any old place. You are demonstrating that you can apply the steps/reasoning that was taught in class. That problem is out of context more likely due to selective photography than bad writing. The top of the paper may well say "use the methods taught today in class" or some poo poo. The problem here is that parents resist new educational methods and when they try to help their kids with their homework, they don't bother to understand the context, just mock NEW MATHS and tell their kid to sass the teacher about it then post a cropped photo on their anti-government blog. I work with kids and see this poo poo all the time. 
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 13:46
|
|
|
Edit: I'm Gay
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 13:47
|
|
|
Command Ant posted:It's the Cat of Amontillado! For the love of God, Meowntresor!
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 13:52
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIWaJ0sy03g
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 13:53
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 13:55
|
|
|
New Math obviously doesn't work because all these kids are so drat dumb these days
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:06
|
|
|
I think all of their trophies say otherwise
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:09
|
|
|
Command Ant posted:It's the Cat of Amontillado! LoonShia posted:For the love of God, Meowntresor!
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:10
|
|
|
Trent posted:I bet you argued with the teacher about showing your work, didn't you? Sadly that is me but I try not to. I work in childcare with the school age kids and this one kid needs help with his math homework. Since I'm not in the class and he doesn't bring the book home I have to blindly guess at what newfangled methods they teach. Some days are easier than others.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:13
|
|
|
Trent posted:I bet you argued with the teacher about showing your work, didn't you? And say what you like about common core, it's not as bad as when my mother went to school, and they basically decided to teach everyone base 8. Then again, that question just seems like a kind of unintuitive way of getting the kid to learn how to add single digits without just memorizing the equation. Which is good. Also, here is this thread right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIKGV2cTgqA
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:27
|
|
|
I agree with some people about the teaching of math in general being about understanding the methods but I still think everything about the original picture was Bad. Most of the assumptions about math teaching assumes you are teaching math and understanding math. If this is how math is taught these days its no wonder no one can do it.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:32
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
Something Awful > Discussion > Post Your Favorite (or Request) › PYF Funny Pictures: Show Your Work
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 14:48
|
|
|
Is this the funny math picture thread now?
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 15:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 21:07 |
|
|
LoonShia posted:For the love of God, Meowntresor! Furtunado had it coming.
|
|
#
?
May 14, 2015 15:45
|
|
