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The Lord Bude posted:and quite possibly the breaking of Semirhage by spanking is a joke directed at her as well. haha if this is true then sanderson owns
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May 12, 2015 14:19
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Two Finger posted:haha if this is true then sanderson owns Well it's only speculation on my part, but Leigh has been very vocal about the spanking over the years, and Sanderson's writing almost seemed to poke fun at it. He does also have a thing about inserting people into his books - a number of people have been given callouts, by having characters named after them - Leigh, Jason from Dragonmount.com, etc.
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May 12, 2015 14:37
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Two Finger posted:a soapbox for her favourite SJW issues. gently caress you.
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May 12, 2015 14:59
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The Lord Bude posted:Well it's only speculation on my part, but Leigh has been very vocal about the spanking over the years, and Sanderson's writing almost seemed to poke fun at it. He does also have a thing about inserting people into his books - a number of people have been given callouts, by having characters named after them - Leigh, Jason from Dragonmount.com, etc. She's been very vocal about literally everything that didn't agree with her own worldview. There was something in particular, it was to do with the Sea Folk and one of their sayings about ships, where she threw a full on tantrum. Given that I work at sea, I found it incredibly ridiculous. Come work at sea for 6 months and see if that changes your opinion at all.
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May 12, 2015 14:59
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ruby idiot railed posted:gently caress you. Hahah this should be good. Tell you what, why don't you tell me what your problem is and we'll go from there
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May 12, 2015 15:04
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Yeah I'd dodge Leigh Butler's read throughs. They are genuinely good outside of her SJW rants that got worse and worse to the point I just stopped after the second book. It reminded me a lot of someone reading a story then every five minutes they'd close the book and give a PSA for your entertainment until it went from every five minutes to every thirty seconds. Some people take literature way too serious. Fictional characters, man. FICTIONAL. CHARACTERS. I don't read Tolkien and go "jeez this could use more transgender awareness" or "I wish Harper Lee put in gay/lesbian characters!" Or "Boy Charles Dickens sure was racist!" Just read the story and comment on it. Show the nods to mythology or clarify things but leave your damned soap box at home. I learned more about the books from this thread than anything she has written.
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May 12, 2015 15:05
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Hunky Joe posted:Yeah I'd dodge Leigh Butler's read throughs. They are genuinely good outside of her SJW rants that got worse and worse completely agree with this. if she'd left it at that, I honestly would have been totally fine with them.
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May 12, 2015 15:06
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Two Finger posted:No don't loving read this ever. Leigh Butler is goddamned terrible and her first read through was a soapbox for her favourite SJW issues. Uh I'm pretty sure Jordan got on the soapbox first, when he intentionally wrote a ten thousand page exploration of gender roles in different fantasy cultures. If you write a detailed chapter-by-chapter review and you aren't talking about this subject in practically every chapter, you simply aren't taking him seriously as a writer. Granted, if you want to enjoy the books, I wouldn't advise taking him seriously as a writer on this subject. But I also recognize that that's the last thing Jordan would ever want. McNerd fucked around with this message at 15:26 on May 12, 2015 |
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May 12, 2015 15:21
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Plus we should also remember that fictional worlds that take place in medieval settings are naturally going to be very unjust and un-PC. If you look at, say, A Song of Ice and Fire, ranting about "OMG this book showcases brutality and rape culture in an acceptable light!" is missing the drat point, because no loving poo poo: it's a medieval era world so of course slaughter and rape are everywhere. That's how medieval cultures worked. They were hard and brutal male-dominated societies that waged war and raped the women of conquered lands. It's ugly, but it's also a tragic part of human nature. Frankly, Jordan's system of gender dynamics is immensely tasteful compared to a lot of other fantasy fiction. Of course, there's unjust gender dynamics in fiction as a part of realistic world building, and there's creepy fetishism which is another thing entirely. The-Series-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named comes to mind.
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May 12, 2015 20:05
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ShadowCatboy posted:Of course, there's unjust gender dynamics in fiction as a part of realistic world building, and there's creepy fetishism which is another thing entirely. The-Series-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named comes to mind. You're in the thread about a series with a spanking fetish  no need to candy coat which series you are talking about I think we all know it's this one
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May 12, 2015 20:34
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Hunky Joe posted:You're in the thread about a series with a spanking fetish Ha ha. Not even close.
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May 12, 2015 21:48
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Hunky Joe posted:You're in the thread about a series with a spanking fetish yeah, for all its flaws WOT never had a chapter where the heroine walks through a devastated city where basically every woman has been raped to death while she tells a savage about capitalism
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May 12, 2015 22:42
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Two Finger posted:yeah, for all its flaws WOT never had a chapter where the heroine walks through a devastated city where basically every woman has been raped to death while she tells a savage about capitalism Heroine? As in a vagina-haver that is also in a position of power? Say it isn't so! Certainly not in the glorious World of Gor!
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May 13, 2015 00:44
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ShadowCatboy posted:Heroine? As in a vagina-haver that is also in a position of power? Say it isn't so! Certainly not in the glorious World of Gor! See, that sounds like Sword of Truth to me, but I wouldnt be surprised if there were two series with it.
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May 13, 2015 07:13
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LowellDND posted:See, that sounds like Sword of Truth to me, but I wouldnt be surprised if there were two series with it. Gor is actually worse than sword of truth. I know, it's hard to imagine.
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May 13, 2015 16:09
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GreyPowerVan posted:Gor is actually worse than sword of truth. I know, it's hard to imagine. Yeah at least in sword of truth women spank the men. Or so I hear.
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May 13, 2015 20:37
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GreyPowerVan posted:Gor is actually worse than sword of truth. I know, it's hard to imagine. I can't imagine it, and therefore I don't believe it.
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May 13, 2015 20:54
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Fairly sure I linked 'Houseplants of Gor' in the Goodkind thread. Google it, you know you want to.
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May 13, 2015 21:49
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GreyPowerVan posted:Gor is actually worse than sword of truth. I know, it's hard to imagine. It's a tough call, but you're probably right.
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May 14, 2015 02:11
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LowellDND posted:Fairly sure I linked 'Houseplants of Gor' in the Goodkind thread. Google it, you know you want to. Houseplants of Gor never stops being amusing.
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May 14, 2015 02:51
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The Lord Bude posted:I haven't bothered with the re-readthrough, but the first reread was fabulously entertaining - it's a great summary of the series, and she has some great commentaries. She is also, I suspect the sole reason why Brandon Sanderson decided to randomly insert to references to gay men in A Memory of Light; and quite possibly the breaking of Semirhage by spanking is a joke directed at her as well. See, the thing with gay men I was OK with, because there's chapter after chapter of people alluding to the hot hot lesbian sex all those Aes Sedai had while they were novices. It seemed a little one-sided.
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May 14, 2015 22:48
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For everything wrong with Sword of Truth (and it's a list at least five pages long, most of them being rape), it gave me Legend of the Seeker, so at least something good came out of all of Goodkind's works.
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May 16, 2015 05:52
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Rereading this series is funny for two reasons 1.) You can skip over like, 1/4 - 1/2 of every chapter as that's the amount per chapter that's just reexplaining past book mechanics for the 10th time. "Rand embraced saidin, the male half of the true power. It's corruption poured through him, as the Dark One had tainted it...." blah blah blah. Literally any time a subject, be it Aridhol, Fain, saidin, Aes Sedai, w/e, the next paragraph is guaranteed to be a retread history lesson. Thanks for reminding me for the 50th time that saidin is corrupted in the 6th book. I almost forgot. 2.) The first book is full of women that are just like the male characters and have strong motivations that are there own. By book 2 it's nothing but girls falling in love with Mat/Rand after talking to them for 3 seconds. Not to mention how every time women are together they -will- end up taking their tops off. 50 % chance of one of them being spanked. I've started to just completely skim over any chapter involving Elayne as at least 60 % of the dialogue will involve her mooning over Rand. The guy she's talked to like, 3 times in 6 books.
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May 17, 2015 18:49
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limeincoke posted:2.) The first book is full of women that are just like the male characters and have strong motivations that are there own. By book 2 it's nothing but girls falling in love with Mat/Rand after talking to them for 3 seconds. Not to mention how every time women are together they -will- end up taking their tops off. 50 % chance of one of them being spanked. I've started to just completely skim over any chapter involving Elayne as at least 60 % of the dialogue will involve her mooning over Rand. The guy she's talked to like, 3 times in 6 books. Also, Mat never really gets anywhere with his flirting, so I'm not sure why his name popped up.
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May 17, 2015 20:32
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Mat gets laid all the time. He is a bit of a man whore.
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May 17, 2015 20:42
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Blind Melon posted:Mat gets laid all the time. He is a bit of a man whore.
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May 17, 2015 21:07
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Nihilarian posted:in book 2, when he's turning into Gollum? Girls like assholes.
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May 17, 2015 21:13
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I'm currently on a re-read, up to the shadow rising atm. I have never read the final three books and it's about ten years since I last read the early ones. My main impression is that Egwene is a boring, self obsessed, whiny pain in the arse. However, I am finding the other female characters slightly less insufferable than I remember, apart from Elayne who has no character to speak of.
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May 17, 2015 22:34
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I'm re-reading Eye of the World after.... christ knows how many years. It stuns me how tightly written and plotted it is. WOT lost its way in a lot of ways as the series went on, but gently caress me did it start well.
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May 18, 2015 08:07
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Two Finger posted:I'm re-reading Eye of the World after.... christ knows how many years. It stuns me how tightly written and plotted it is. WOT lost its way in a lot of ways as the series went on, but gently caress me did it start well. One thing I hadn't noticed the first time through was that Mat shouts the Old Tongue before he even gets to Shadar Logoth, the dagger eats holes in his memory, and the 'Finns fill it with others' memories.
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May 19, 2015 00:50
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DarkHorse posted:I'm getting the same feeling. For all that it's a transparent homage to J.R.R. Tolkien it was a well-paced book. Even knowing everything (and I've been entertained by finding all the obvious hints of who's the Dragon, etc.) there's still the suspense of who the Dark One is actually hunting, plus the introduction of all sorts of things like the Dream World and Shadar Logoth and more without getting bogged down. homage is really the key word there I think. Yes, it's a homage, but it's not a blatant rip-off. I read the first Shannara book a few years ago and that felt like a cheap retread of LOTR, even down to the 'skull bearers'. A Myrddraal might well be a Black Rider in all but name, but he at least flipped a lot of things on their heads by having Gandalf be a woman.
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May 19, 2015 02:41
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I ran out of gas to continue this series after the book where Rand was captured by the Aes Sedai, the characters were grating and honestly the series just wasn't fun by that point and I just wanted Rand to legitimately murder everyone or the evil to win and destroy the universe full of idiots. I think if I had to pick a character to get rid of it would probably be Egwene I legitimately think she is the worst person.
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May 21, 2015 06:33
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Jack2142 posted:I ran out of gas to continue this series after the book where Rand was captured by the Aes Sedai, the characters were grating and honestly the series just wasn't fun by that point and I just wanted Rand to legitimately murder everyone or the evil to win and destroy the universe full of idiots. I think if I had to pick a character to get rid of it would probably be Egwene I legitimately think she is the worst person. How did you not like Dumai's well or whatever it's called.
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May 21, 2015 06:51
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GreyPowerVan posted:How did you not like Dumai's well or whatever it's called. Wait... oh yeah that was pretty entertaining but aside from that I really disliked the book. The one following it where Mat gets raped and he gets poo poo on for it made me quit the series, although I already was strongly disliking it at that point. It also didn't help that the plot was grinding to a standstill and I kept skipping chapters because they either made me angry or I just didn't care. Overall it was a frustrating series, but the first three books were good. If only he actually killed the dark lord with the magic sword at the end of the third one... 
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May 21, 2015 07:05
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Jack2142 posted:Wait... oh yeah that was pretty entertaining but aside from that I really disliked the book. The one following it where Mat gets raped and he gets poo poo on for it made me quit the series, although I already was strongly disliking it at that point. It also didnt help that the plot was grinding to a standstill and I kept skipping chapters because they either made me angry or I just didn't care. Overall it was a frustrating series ,but the first three books were good, if only he actually killed the dark lord with the magic sword at the end of the third one... That actually would have been a fairly good ending. I mean the series could even have still continued much the same, just with the Seanchan as the main villain. Really just get rid of references to the Dark One, and the Forsaken can still be there as side plot characters struggling to survive in a world without the DO's protection. The Seanchan were way cooler anyways. The only problem was that their presence dragged the rest of the series down since there was now two huge conflicts RJ had to handle. Get rid of the DO and problem solved.
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May 23, 2015 04:41
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limeincoke posted:That actually would have been a fairly good ending. I mean the series could even have still continued much the same, just with the Seanchan as the main villain. Really just get rid of references to the Dark One, and the Forsaken can still be there as side plot characters struggling to survive in a world without the DO's protection. I feel that would work, it would definitely lead to less plot bloat. It could even work like the Belgariad & Mallorean how the series kept the same characters, but a different main conflict.
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May 23, 2015 08:53
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Actually.... I just want to run through it in my head. Rand-Frodo Perrin-Sam? Mat-Merry? Moiraine-Gandalf Lan-Aragorn Egwene-Pippin? Nynaeve-........uh, Legolas? Gimli? Fain-Gollum (duh) Trollocs-Orcs Myrddraal-Nazgul Two Rivers-Shire Baerlon-Bree Shadar Logoth-Old Forest? The Ways-Moria Thom-........uh? Boromir maybe? Bombadil? Blight-Mordor Shienar-Gondor Malkier-Ithilien/Osgiliath There's a lot of parallels but it doesn't quite match up exactly...
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May 23, 2015 10:27
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Two Finger posted:Actually.... I just want to run through it in my head. I mean, I think it's more collectively farm boys=hobbits (with some Chosen One flavor thrown on) plus the whole plot of 'evil once defeated dark lord must be defeated by small fellowship going to Mordor and wrecking magic superweapon before the bad guy does.' I mean, you even had the ring (dagger) though this time it's more a side plot and not the main MaGuffin. Certainly, it's not like Eragon->Star Wars painfully bad, but the skeleton of the plot is there. Sleepy farmfolk suddenly thrust into plot via Black Riders etc. etc.
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May 23, 2015 18:12
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The first... mid 80ies? draft someone linked was a lot *less* LoTR strangely enough. Maybe had more to do with Jordans background in Conan-writing? I recall the first draft being hilariously pulpy (Dark One being named... something Mortal Kombatish or close to Shere Khan... and he came from another planet to conquer Randland??). I found the one Jordan written Conan book I've read to be pretty enjoyable, so a way pulpier WoT is a fun "What-if?". All the LoTR-a-like parts seems more like a concious choice for subversion or to do a more modern take on them (and most get dropped pretty quickly after the first book). The King Arthur stuff sticks around a lot more and most of that isn't particularly good (being mostly related to every character out of House loving Trakand and their related plotlines) but the first drafts were even more overt with those influences.
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May 23, 2015 21:40
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the JJ posted:I mean, I think it's more collectively farm boys=hobbits (with some Chosen One flavor thrown on) plus the whole plot of 'evil once defeated dark lord must be defeated by small fellowship going to Mordor and wrecking magic superweapon before the bad guy does.' I mean, you even had the ring (dagger) though this time it's more a side plot and not the main MaGuffin. Yeah that makes a bit more sense. I was a bit bored and decided to see how many parallels I could make
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May 24, 2015 01:41
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