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Only the last thread on the plug looks messed-up, so I'm hoping it just worked its way out over the years and was hanging by that one thread. Or the other threads are just gone.  I guess we'll find out in an hour when my friend gets off work and takes me to get new plugs. No harm in trying, is there? At worst it'll just do it again and I'll have to helicoil it? How difficult is the helicoil? Is it something I can do in the driveway, or does it require pulling the head?
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May 15, 2015 21:29
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Not sure if you can do it on-vehicle without dropping metal into the cylinder, but if you turn the engine over by hand until the intake valve for that cylinder is open, then apply compressed air through the intake while you drill, all the fragments of aluminum should be blown out instead of falling in. At least you got the one that violently rejects its own spark plugs instead of the one that goes klepto and never lets them go again. That's a Ford Thing too, and there is a kit to extract the part that breaks off in the head for those as well.
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May 15, 2015 21:55
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kastein posted:Not sure if you can do it on-vehicle without dropping metal into the cylinder, but if you turn the engine over by hand until the intake valve for that cylinder is open, then apply compressed air through the intake while you drill, all the fragments of aluminum should be blown out instead of falling in.  
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May 15, 2015 22:01
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are you a wizard Also, I know ford made a special extractor for those, but I recall someone mentioning that it could break, and that ford or someone else made an extractor for that, too. Was that true or just comedic hyperbole?
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May 15, 2015 22:24
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Enourmo posted:Was that true or just comedic hyperbole? I replaced the coil and plug, and it seems to be holding, for now at least. Was going to replace all the plugs, but gently caress it, they're too hard to get to. Maybe tomorrow. Though it could be worse, they're on top of the engine with just the fuel rails in the way, as opposed to older FWD V6s where you pretty much have to take the engine out to get at the plugs against the firewall.
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May 15, 2015 22:41
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kastein posted:At least you got the one that violently rejects its own spark plugs instead of the one that goes klepto and never lets them go again. That's a Ford Thing too, and there is a kit to extract the part that breaks off in the head for those as well.
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May 15, 2015 22:42
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Acid Reflux posted:It was recently coming up on time to change the plugs on my '08 F150, so I sold it. This is making me laugh far harder than it should 
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May 15, 2015 23:11
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As a spark plug engineer, Ford's attempts to improve on the spark plug design is... funny. Best part is my manager was late to work one day because his F150 decided to demonstrate the flying spark plug problem. He sold that truck shortly thereafter. totalnewbie fucked around with this message at 23:17 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 23:13
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Acid Reflux posted:It was recently coming up on time to change the plugs on my '08 F150, so I sold it. Reminds me of the time a coworker had a coil-on-plug go out on his '03 Land Rover ... so he changed the head gaskets while he was at it.
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May 15, 2015 23:27
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totalnewbie posted:As a spark plug engineer How boring is your job? Do you work for a big spark plug company, or an OEM? If it's the former, do OEMs design an engine first and then ask for plugs that work with their other constraints? Are you working on laser spark plugs now?
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May 15, 2015 23:32
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Delivery McGee posted:Reminds me of the time a coworker had a coil-on-plug go out on his '03 Land Rover ... so he changed the head gaskets while he was at it. '03 Land Rovers weren't COP, but the coil pack was mounted behind the intake manifold and once you get the intake manifold off you're about 60% of the way to doing headgaskets anyway...
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May 15, 2015 23:45
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That's right. But yeah, might as well do the head gaskets while you've got it torn apart, because it's loving British and they're about to go.
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May 15, 2015 23:54
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Acid Reflux posted:It was recently coming up on time to change the plugs on my '08 F150, so I sold it. holy gently caress new thread title Blatantly stolen from fordproblems.com:  The best part? Apparently 6.8L V10s do it too... all the benefits of a V10 including having two extra plugs to either eject themselves or refuse to come out.
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May 16, 2015 00:11
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Will never forget a Lightning on the dyno blowing one out. Think it was around 4500rpm, left a nice hump in the hood.
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May 16, 2015 00:23
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Delivery McGee posted:Only the last thread on the plug looks messed-up, so I'm hoping it just worked its way out over the years and was hanging by that one thread. Or the other threads are just gone. YMMV but I had good luck with two of these on my wife's 2003 f150. http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-42025-Master-Cylinder-Repair/dp/B000TYVU1U
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May 16, 2015 00:53
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Enourmo posted:are you a wizard Major Parts stores will rent you the extractor kit, and sell you the bag of consumeables (special Glue and pins) that you need with it.
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May 16, 2015 00:55
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wolrah posted:There's also the fact that the group behind that report was hired by the plaintiff in a suit against Toyota and only needed to create enough doubt for the purposes of a civil suit (the standard is much lower than criminal cases), where the joint effort from NASA and NHTSA did not find any way to cause more than basically a fast idle without tripping the failsafes. That's what I thought until I read the NASA report. People claiming that software bugs are not unique to Toyota are drawing a false equivalency. Read the report. The software and hardware design practices at Toyota weren't just bad. They were comically, criminally, utterly dysfunctionally negligent. Spaghetti code doesn't begin to describe the insane mess that their ECU firmware was. On all the typical software quality metrics that NASA applied to it, the code was literally off the charts in the wrong direction. And that's without even starting to get into the hardware. Toyota had stay-at-home housewives repair defective ECU boards by splicing jumper wires onto them. You don't have to be an EE pro to realize how utterly insane that is. Toyota has since fired the head of that unit and instituted a reorg, and the US DOT is instituting new engineering process quality rules that will govern automotive ECU development. But they stonewalled the investigation and admitted no fault, and that's why I won't trust them again. edit: Of course none of the cases have been found to be the ECU's fault. That's because the ECU in those cars is untestable. It was built in such a way that its behavior is pseudo-random. azazello fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 02:09
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I have a 2000 Mustang with a 4.6 and I changed the plugs with zero drama. It sees regular trips to 4k+ revs, too. Changed plugs on a '97 T-bird, too. Am I a wizard?
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May 16, 2015 02:41
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kastein posted:holy gently caress new thread title Getting broken exhaust manifold bolts out is also fun. They all break, and you better be good at the welding a nut to a stud broken half inch in the block trick.
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May 16, 2015 02:45
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Boaz MacPhereson posted:I have a 2000 Mustang with a 4.6 and I changed the plugs with zero drama. It sees regular trips to 4k+ revs, too. Naw the t bird had the one that didn't shoot plugs out. your mustang is only a matter of time. Or maybe because your not a moron and don't over tighten the plugs you will be good. And in the ford plug chat you need to get the tool that installs the sleeves and put a tab of Loctite on the helicoil/sleeve. I do this at work at least once a week if not more. and the best way to keep metal shavings from going in the head is using A FUCKTON of grease on the tap and constantly pulling it out cleaning it and regreasing it.
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May 16, 2015 02:49
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SouthsideSaint posted:Naw the t bird had the one that didn't shoot plugs out. your mustang is only a matter of time. Or maybe because your not a moron and don't over tighten the plugs you will be good. Yup. That's what I did when I had to do it.
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May 16, 2015 03:14
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Seat Safety Switch posted:How boring is your job? Ehh it has its ups and downs. I work at a supplier but OEMs always design the engine and then spec the plug. Doesn't really make sense the other way around. Can't say.
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May 16, 2015 03:35
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azazello posted:That's what I thought until I read the NASA report. People claiming that software bugs are not unique to Toyota are drawing a false equivalency. Read the report. The software and hardware design practices at Toyota weren't just bad. They were comically, criminally, utterly dysfunctionally negligent. Spaghetti code doesn't begin to describe the insane mess that their ECU firmware was. On all the typical software quality metrics that NASA applied to it, the code was literally off the charts in the wrong direction. And that's without even starting to get into the hardware. Toyota had stay-at-home housewives repair defective ECU boards by splicing jumper wires onto them. You don't have to be an EE pro to realize how utterly insane that is. lovely firmware (jargon for software that runs on hardware at a low level) happens virtally everywhere because instead of hiring some SEs to do a job it's always cheaper to use the EEs you do have to write lovely software (and this will get passed on to the newest and least experienced EEs as well, the ones with seniority don't want to write code). Also, splicing wires to fix board design issues isn't nearly as uncommon as you might think and it's way more reliable than any of the poo poo firmware that's going to run on the board anyway.
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May 16, 2015 04:00
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azazello posted:That's what I thought until I read the NASA report. People claiming that software bugs are not unique to Toyota are drawing a false equivalency. Read the report. The software and hardware design practices at Toyota weren't just bad. They were comically, criminally, utterly dysfunctionally negligent. Spaghetti code doesn't begin to describe the insane mess that their ECU firmware was. On all the typical software quality metrics that NASA applied to it, the code was literally off the charts in the wrong direction. And that's without even starting to get into the hardware. Toyota had stay-at-home housewives repair defective ECU boards by splicing jumper wires onto them. You don't have to be an EE pro to realize how utterly insane that is. Yes but none of those things are unique to Toyota. My anecdotal two cents: the 1KD hilux engine has a habit of making a nasty noise at the rpm's usually seen driving around in an automatic vehicle. Toyota's solution was to alter the engine mapping slightly; it essentially pushed the entire torque curve up the range by like 500rpm so the noise would happen higher up, the downside being it cut the top of the power curve off so the engine would be less powerful overall. The upgrade took a good couple of hours IIRC and if literally anything were to happen while the tool was connected, like a loss of battery voltage or someone touching the OBD cable or something, the ECU would be scrapped. Apparently this was because the VIN information would be the first thing that got wiped when the ecu was being reprogrammed, and without that initial vin information the tool would be unable to proceed with the upgrade if you tried again. There was no method of undoing this ECU upgrade once it was done and we told customers in advance that even attempting the upgrade was a potentially fatal gamble.
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May 16, 2015 04:29
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On top of that, the VIN is the last thing written to the ECU (with Toyota anyway).
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May 16, 2015 04:53
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Slavvy posted:
Otherwise know as the 'ah my package has arrived' sound.
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May 16, 2015 04:58
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dissss posted:Otherwise know as the 'ah my package has arrived' sound. Yeah. Although for me it's forever the 'ah, another courier with a completely hosed hiace is coming in to complain' sound.
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May 16, 2015 05:03
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So my wife was driving the winter beater Forester while her car was in the shop and had it stall. Could not get it started again so she called for a tow. A couple of hours later it is dropped off at home. From the symptoms; car will drive for a while fine and then die, restarting will fail, let it sit for a while and it starts right up and runs fine; I believe that it is something to do with the tank evap system. The car threw a gas cap code in the morning but I just re-closed the cap and thought it would be fine. So, I look under the car to check on the tank vent and see if I can find any spiders and this is what greets me:  I noticed the grease blob first (after getting over how bad the rust is getting). Panning up, I saw the split in the CV boot and was somewhat upset. That is not where boots normally fail and the car has not been driven with that as the grease has just dripped down and is not all over everything (could use the rust proofing). Checked the driver's side and:  Okay, I could buy one boot going bad, but not two at once and in the same place. The tow truck used J hooks when the car was on the flat bed so my guess is that the hooks around the trailing arms rubbed/ripped the CV boots. I just hope that the J hooks were not on the axles! Luckily the tow was through CAA and after I sent these pictures they are covering the repair. I would not be as concerned about cosmetic issues, but CV boots are a bit more of an issue in my book.
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May 16, 2015 05:07
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They put the hooks on the axles, hth.
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May 16, 2015 05:12
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Slavvy posted:They put the hooks on the axles, hth. drat it! I was hoping to hear the opposite but I had a feeling this would be the case. Now the question is: how badly hosed are the axles or is a simple boot replacement going to cut it? I can guess the answer to this... but I would like to have good opinions to go back to them with. My normal mechanic does not deal with Subaru that much so I might need to go back to the dealer.
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May 16, 2015 05:37
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Just replacing the boots should be ok, those axles are pretty tough.
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May 16, 2015 05:42
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Preoptopus posted:Getting broken exhaust manifold bolts out is also fun. They all break, and you better be good at the welding a nut to a stud broken half inch in the block trick. I really want to meet whatever moron designed all the ford manifold to head bolts, because I have some choice words for that fuckwit. I don't know why they used m8 instead of at least m10. I've pulled somewhere around 100 jeep 4.0 manifold bolts*, reused all but one, which broke upon reinstall after coming out fine. Ford? After pulling 4 6-bolt V6 headers I had broken 9 of the 24 bolts even being careful. And none of the tricks got them out, I ended up drilling them out with a carbide drill and helicoiling that disaster. I hear 4.6, 5.4, and 6.8 ones are every bit as bad. * this may be an understatement. There are 11 per vehicle, I can't even remember how many times I've had the manifolds off a 4.0. kastein fucked around with this message at 16:05 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 16:00
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kastein posted:
That is so true. And on some f250s the only way to remove the manifold is to destroy it...No problem tho rust makes those things weaker then wet toilet paper. I have literally tapped them with my finger and had silver dollar size holes appear.
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May 16, 2015 19:44
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Slavvy posted:They put the hooks on the axles, hth. If they were put on the axles they would have rub marks all the way around where the hooks were on them and they turned when it was dragged on. Don't like like they were on the axles to me.
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May 16, 2015 19:57
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Oh, I thought he was referring to the securing strap thingies, not the winch that drags it on. That makes even less sense because the car will have towing eyes specifically designed for dragging it up on the back of a truck, they're usually either built into the subframe or there's a tow hook in the boot that screws into the subframe through a hole in the bumper.
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May 16, 2015 21:02
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Slavvy posted:Oh, I thought he was referring to the securing strap thingies, not the winch that drags it on. That makes even less sense because the car will have towing eyes specifically designed for dragging it up on the back of a truck, they're usually either built into the subframe or there's a tow hook in the boot that screws into the subframe through a hole in the bumper. Jap cars tend to have lashing points on the corners too (used for shipping) that make excellent attachment points to drag it onto a flatbed. But tow drivers are lazy and J-hooks are easy to use.
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May 16, 2015 22:58
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This:Mooseykins posted:But tow drivers are lazy and J-hooks are easy to use. Though every other time I have been towed, the driver has been very careful and made sure things were done right and factory tow points were used. The damage was to the rear axles and the car was dragged on from the front. It looks like the driver managed to miss hooking the front axle, but snagged the rear with the J hook when it was tied down. That is also why there are no rub marks.
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May 16, 2015 23:56
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ZincBoy posted:This: Odd. Then my guess would be he used wheel straps with chokers, and put the strap too low, it caught on the boot and when the strap was tightened it pulled the boot towards the wheel and tore it near the shaft clamp.
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May 17, 2015 00:14
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Mooseykins posted:Odd. Then my guess would be he used wheel straps with chokers, and put the strap too low, it caught on the boot and when the strap was tightened it pulled the boot towards the wheel and tore it near the shaft clamp. No, I was there when it was dropped off and it was tied down just with the J hooks/chain on the front and rear suspension. No wheel straps or anything useful like that. I have not been towed too many times so I didn't think anything of it until I looked under the car.
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May 17, 2015 00:23
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ZincBoy posted:No, I was there when it was dropped off and it was tied down just with the J hooks/chain on the front and rear suspension. No wheel straps or anything useful like that. I have not been towed too many times so I didn't think anything of it until I looked under the car. Oh... J-hooks on yo axles then! Professional! Another reason you're meant to use wheel straps is they stop side-to-side movement, which J-hooks and front/rear strapping won't do. Don't you just love it when a job's done right? 
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May 17, 2015 00:46
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