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Can someone explain the backlash against brutal doom on the zdoom forums? I know the maker of Brutal was banned but it's still a great mod. Is it just nerds being reactionary in response to a shift in the style of modding or something?
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May 16, 2015 13:00
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Klaus88 posted:Can someone explain the backlash against brutal doom on the zdoom forums? I know the maker of Brutal was banned but it's still a great mod. Is it just nerds being reactionary in response to a shift in the style of modding or something? It's focused on Brutal Doom, but it's broadly against gameplay mods in general. The idea from some old-school Doomheads is that the core gameplay is borderline sacred, and while maps may explore it in interesting ways, it shouldn't be altered. I've seen some mappers getting upset at their campaigns being played with the likes of Project MSX, even. It really is the most ridiculous schism to have in a modding scene, especially after decades of nobody giving a poo poo and letting people play what they want to. Apparently the sudden popularity of Brutal Doom has riled up a lot of purists, and they see a lot of newcomers wanting Doom-But-Not-Doom. Even seen a few deliberately put hooks into their otherwise-vanilla mods to intentionally stop gameplay mods from being used on it. Most mappers are cool, though. Cyriak/Mouldy mentioned that he tested Going Down with Russian Overkill. Personally? I think there's a lot to be said for vanilla Doom gameplay. That's why I like Smooth Doom - graphical upgrades, but keeping the gameplay as-is. For replaying campaigns though? I'm gonna go nuts. MSX, Brutal, even ('Worst Mod Of The Year' Cacoward winner) Aeons of Death.
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May 16, 2015 13:10
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Klaus88 posted:Can someone explain the backlash against brutal doom on the zdoom forums? I know the maker of Brutal was banned but it's still a great mod. Is it just nerds being reactionary in response to a shift in the style of modding or something? Because the first thing new Doomers say when they arrive on the scene is 'Man Brutal Doom is So Much Better than the original lol'. This riles up people, especially when the mod caters largely to gore for gores sake. Brutal Doom adds a lot of modern refinements that simply detract from the game-play represented in the best wads available, which balance a hell of a lot on the viability of the BFG up close and hitscanners. Part of the reason a lot of the best wads are revered is the gameplay, and Brutal doom turns that on its head in some ways, what it gives in return is some flashy but ultimately shallow addons. The fact is you are missing out on the best part of what the doom community has offered if you use the mod. Don't get me wrong, I fire up Brutal Doom occasionally, but never on a serious Wad or a serious play-through.
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May 16, 2015 13:41
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Huh. I thought it was because people were flooding mod makers' PM boxes/forum threads with "MAKE UR MOD WORK WITH BRUTAL DOOM". Including completely unrelated gameplay mods like Demonsteele and I think Wrath of Cronos? Or was it GMOTA? I don't remember, it's all Hexen weapons to me. 
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May 16, 2015 13:42
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I can see the dislike for BD, but overall, I enjoy the ways they've modernized the Doom gameplay (I don't actually care about any of the gore) and the feel of the weapons, while still allowing me to run around at 35mph, circle-strafing the hell out of areas. I really don't think I'd enjoy a slower-paced, stealthy/tactical version.
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May 16, 2015 14:32
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The problem is the opposite. With how dangerous hitscanners are in BD you effectively have to play it like a cover shooter on levels which do not base their difficulty on hit scanners being so deadly
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May 16, 2015 15:27
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So nerds being reactionary man children when threatened with a big change to their little section of cyberspace? Man that sucks, I like brutal doom for it's gameplay refinements and integration of modern FPS trends with old school doom madness. 
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May 16, 2015 16:02
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Dominic White posted:It's focused on Brutal Doom, but it's broadly against gameplay mods in general. The idea from some old-school Doomheads is that the core gameplay is borderline sacred, and while maps may explore it in interesting ways, it shouldn't be altered. I've seen some mappers getting upset at their campaigns being played with the likes of Project MSX, even. This is why Brutal Doom is disliked on the Doomworld forums. On the ZDoom forums, which is what he was asking, Brutal Doom is disliked because its creator was banned after being a racist rear end in a top hat.
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May 16, 2015 16:08
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I can see the dislike for BD, but overall, I enjoy the ways they've modernized the Doom gameplay (I don't actually care about any of the gore) and the feel of the weapons, while still allowing me to run around at 35mph, circle-strafing the hell out of areas. I really don't think I'd enjoy a slower-paced, stealthy/tactical version. It's nowhere near Hideous Destructor levels of tactical milsim cover shooting, though.
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May 16, 2015 16:09
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maev posted:The problem is the opposite. With how dangerous hitscanners are in BD you effectively have to play it like a cover shooter on levels which do not base their difficulty on hit scanners being so deadly This. But you know what that plasma will do to you... faster than rap music even!
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May 16, 2015 16:14
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Alain Post posted:This is why Brutal Doom is disliked on the Doomworld forums. On the ZDoom forums, which is what he was asking, Brutal Doom is disliked because its creator was banned after being a racist rear end in a top hat. I think I remember a claim that he had stolen some of the assets used in BD, too. Even if that's not true, the guy sounds like a prick. I mean, BD is fun and all and is basically what got me playing Doom again, but lately I find myself turning it off and playing vanilla Doom.
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May 16, 2015 17:22
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Bread Pudding posted:Huh. I thought it was because people were flooding mod makers' PM boxes/forum threads with "MAKE UR MOD WORK WITH BRUTAL DOOM". Including completely unrelated gameplay mods like Demonsteele and I think Wrath of Cronos? Or was it GMOTA? I don't remember, it's all Hexen weapons to me. It's entirely this, for what it's worth. Anytime that Brutal Doom came up, it caused a 60 page derail on if it sucked or not, and there were mod makers who were getting death threats for not making their gameplay/map wads compatible with Brutal Doom. They have a forum-wide sticky explaining exactly this.
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May 16, 2015 17:24
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Bread Pudding posted:Huh. I thought it was because people were flooding mod makers' PM boxes/forum threads with "MAKE UR MOD WORK WITH BRUTAL DOOM". Including completely unrelated gameplay mods like Demonsteele and I think Wrath of Cronos? Or was it GMOTA? I don't remember, it's all Hexen weapons to me. I had to quote the one post with the real reason.
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May 16, 2015 18:03
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Elliotw2 posted:It's entirely this, for what it's worth. Anytime that Brutal Doom came up, it caused a 60 page derail on if it sucked or not, and there were mod makers who were getting death threats for not making their gameplay/map wads compatible with Brutal Doom. They have a forum-wide sticky explaining exactly this. Death threats. Welp, at least Brutal Doom found its target audience...
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May 16, 2015 18:30
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:Death threats. Welp, at least Brutal Doom found its target audience... RIP AND TEAR RIP AND TEAR GONNA RIP AND TEAR YOU (if you don't make Memento Mori 2 more compatible with BD)
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May 16, 2015 19:14
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Cat Mattress posted:I had to quote the one post with the real reason. I have a wonderful amount of messages in my inbox talking about how I should add Brutal Doom compatibility to all my mods, some of which get very hostile during the latter half of the conversation. But it's easier to say "reactionary nerds" or "backlash against gameplay mods", I guess. v v
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May 16, 2015 19:16
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The moment you add the veneer of artistic creativity to an internet based community it seems to unlock an entirely new level of idiotic. See also, Minecraft, Skryim, etc.Bread Pudding posted:Huh. I thought it was because people were flooding mod makers' PM boxes/forum threads with "MAKE UR MOD WORK WITH BRUTAL DOOM". Including completely unrelated gameplay mods like Demonsteele and I think Wrath of Cronos? Or was it GMOTA? I don't remember, it's all Hexen weapons to me. 
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May 16, 2015 19:23
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TerminusEst13 posted:I have a wonderful amount of messages in my inbox talking about how I should add Brutal Doom compatibility to all my mods, some of which get very hostile during the latter half of the conversation. When are we getting Brutal Push?
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May 16, 2015 19:25
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Push is already basically Brutal Jumpmaze imo
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May 16, 2015 19:30
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I want Brutal Chex. Death threats don't surprise me at all. Anything designed to be as ~*edgy*~ as possible like BD always attracts the worst people.
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May 16, 2015 19:43
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I wanted to post a silly image of brutalized Chex Quest, but couldn't find it, however I found this neat interview with art director and level designer of Chex Quest: http://levelsave.com/interview-with-chex-quest-team-member-charles-jacobi/ The fact that concept art is drawn with what looks like crayons is just 
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May 16, 2015 19:51
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Klaus88 posted:The moment you add the veneer of artistic creativity to an internet based community it seems to unlock an entirely new level of idiotic. See also, Minecraft, Skryim, etc.
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May 16, 2015 20:10
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Klaus88 posted:The moment you add the veneer of artistic creativity to an internet based community it seems to unlock an entirely new level of idiotic. See also, Minecraft, Skryim, etc. 
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May 16, 2015 20:12
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TerminusEst13 posted:I have a wonderful amount of messages in my inbox talking about how I should add Brutal Doom compatibility to all my mods, some of which get very hostile during the latter half of the conversation. iirc there was also the curious case of Caleb requests for Samsara that got very... Vocal
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May 16, 2015 20:12
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Klaus88 posted:So nerds being reactionary man children when threatened with a big change to their little section of cyberspace? Man that sucks, I like brutal doom for it's gameplay refinements and integration of modern FPS trends with old school doom madness. Personally, I stand behind the mature, thoughful mod-makers. That kind of contrarian attitude can turn a white man into a friend of the family faster than rap.
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May 16, 2015 20:14
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yeahhh that's probably a little much
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May 16, 2015 20:27
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Linguica posted:yeahhh that's probably a little much
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May 16, 2015 20:35
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99% of Doom wads: NIGGAAAAAAA Brutal Doom: *meaningful visual enhancements and gameplay changes*
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May 16, 2015 20:35
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Korendian Leader posted:What? That's a well placed goonsay. I was thinking about the tendency of certain modders to declare "my vision" in response to feedback and constructive criticism and I didn't spell that out very well. Going over all the posts again, it seems like all sides are about equal in the level of rear end in a top hat they're outputting, and that just kinda leaves me feeling apathetic. Except for any goon mod makers who have to work in such an unpleasant environment.
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May 16, 2015 20:38
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So I'm just going to pop in and say that Wrath of Cronos in Doom with the Doom monster replacer and Scythe 2's maps loaded is amazing. It's like you're playing an entirely different game, and I mean that in a good way. Very refreshing change of pace and everything meshes very well.
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May 16, 2015 20:41
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That talk about the RPS list made me think of what my own list would be... then I realized I wouldn't list best, I'd list ones that either are or should be influential, spaced out in the possibility space, basically a 'ten games you really should at least try out if you want to design your own' list. In no particular order except the first and last:
If I don't restrict myself to 10 I'd also add Halo, Chex Quest (just because gently caress yeah chex quest), Descent (if only to contrast with Doom by showcasing the single most disorienting game I can think of this side of poo poo like Antichamber), Tribes and Tribes 2 (to show how much better skiing is as an actual supported mechanic, and drum in that movement glitches are bad, movement options are not) and a few others I'm not thinking of right now but will probably come to me as soon as I hit post. Rupert Buttermilk posted:Jesus christ My favorite is probably Kitty City because on one hand it's all kittens and there's not even any of his usual overuse of mouths or anything and on the other hand it's still wtf. TerminusEst13 posted:I have a wonderful amount of messages in my inbox talking about how I should add Brutal Doom compatibility to all my mods, some of which get very hostile during the latter half of the conversation. Imagining Brutal Metroid: Dreadnought is pretty amusing, as terrible as it would actually be to play. Brutal Demonsteele is just redundant though.
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May 16, 2015 20:55
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Chinese Tony Danza posted:So I'm just going to pop in and say that Wrath of Cronos in Doom with the Doom monster replacer and Scythe 2's maps loaded is amazing. It's like you're playing an entirely different game, and I mean that in a good way. Very refreshing change of pace and everything meshes very well. Wrath of Cronos in general is super loving cool and it actually makes Hexen a lot more palatable to play. edit: on top of the stuff you said, that is
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May 16, 2015 21:13
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:The Gearbox/Interceptor lawsuit over Duke Nukem: Mass Destruction has been settled, supposedly, I don't have time to sift through 30 pages of legalese: http://www.scribd.com/doc/264520063/Exhibit-s-3-Apogee-Software-Ltd-and-Interceptor-Entertainment-ApS I wish names like "Doctor Proton" showed up in legal papers more often. TerminusEst13 posted:I have a wonderful amount of messages in my inbox talking about how I should add Brutal Doom compatibility to all my mods, some of which get very hostile during the latter half of the conversation. Didn't you add Brutal Doom "compatability" to Demonsteele?
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May 16, 2015 21:42
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It even has extra features working only through this combo. Speedy, punchy, killer features.
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May 16, 2015 21:54
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Jia posted:Wrath of Cronos in general is super loving cool and it actually makes Hexen a lot more palatable to play. It doesn't hurt to put a level WAD that doesn't involve seven portals or castles of grief, either. EDIT : We also need Brutal Doom compatibility for Samsara! Every class becomes Caleb and/or Strifeguy.
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May 16, 2015 22:03
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Okay so my question is, where the hell are all the little yellow punchy things coming from when you try to mix those two? I thought they spawned when you killed enemies but they appeared anyway when I tried to run past everything in MAP02... (It's only moderately harder than Demonsteele is for me in general though. I don't think I've gotten more than like four maps in. Lots of dead Hae-Lins.)
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May 16, 2015 22:06
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laserghost posted:I wanted to post a silly image of brutalized Chex Quest, but couldn't find it, however I found this neat interview with art director and level designer of Chex Quest: http://levelsave.com/interview-with-chex-quest-team-member-charles-jacobi/
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May 16, 2015 22:19
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:The Gearbox/Interceptor lawsuit over Duke Nukem: Mass Destruction has been settled, supposedly, I don't have time to sift through 30 pages of legalese: http://www.scribd.com/doc/264520063/Exhibit-s-3-Apogee-Software-Ltd-and-Interceptor-Entertainment-ApS The more I look this over, the better it is. The best part of this document is when they point out repeatedly exactly what the infringing work is for the Duke logo, and all of the images are blown-up pictures featuring Duke's crotch.
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May 16, 2015 22:20
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TerminusEst13 posted:The more I look this over, the better it is. wasn't the map editor for dnf called Duke's Enormous Tool Also the fact that Broussard's getting sued over the Duke brand is cosmically hilarious given his A) devotion to protecting the brand pre-Gearbox, going so far as to send cease-and-desists to remakes of Shareware Duke Nukem 3D and Duke mods in other 3D Realms games like Max Payne, and B) his tendency to skirt the law Segmentation Fault fucked around with this message at 22:33 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 22:23
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Brutal ChexQuest. The noise the flemoids make when dying (yes dying, none of that pussy dimensional transportation in this game) is real abused children crying.
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May 16, 2015 22:31
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