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Dead Reckoning posted:You seem really into this siege warfare comparison, so it may behoove you to look up how most sieges ended. The phrase "put to the sword" comes up a lot. You seem really into apologizing for cops when they behave badly. It may behoove you to take a second or even third look at the things that are happening. Who am I kidding? We've had a number of these threads before and you always, always support the police. You are a sick individual. Pohl fucked around with this message at 13:19 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 13:17
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Re: handgun cams. I think it would be better if the camera engaged whenever the gun is removed from the holster Unrelated: Baltimore corrections officers charged with looting convenience store during unrest quote:Two Baltimore correctional officers were charged Wednesday with looting a downtown convenience store during unrest last month over the death of Freddie Gray, officials said. 
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May 16, 2015 15:38
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blunt for century posted:Re: handgun cams. I think it would be better if the camera engaged whenever the gun is removed from the holster
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May 16, 2015 15:51
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DARPA posted:Hand gun cams focus too much on relatively rare shootings while ignoring the orders of magnitude more likely interactions with police that would benefit from a recording. I meant to have them in addition to body and dash cams, not just exclusively handgun cams. I feel that a handgun cam would be harder to block than a body cam, especially if your arms are in front of the body cam while holding/aiming a handgun. I also feel that they should have two body cams rather than just one, one head mounted on a hat or sunglasses, and one chest mounted, again, to make them harder to block the view from the cameras blunt for century fucked around with this message at 16:06 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 15:58
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joeburz posted:because people in these positions tend to not view the addict as a person, or at least one worth empathizing with in the first place anyways. they see the addict as vermin or scum not worth their time and only worth derision. Haha you should read TCC sometime. Most of the people who do the hard stuff are, indeed, vermin or scum and only worth derision.
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May 16, 2015 17:23
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-Troika- posted:Haha you should read TCC sometime. Most of the people who do the hard stuff are, indeed, vermin or scum and only worth derision.
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May 16, 2015 17:38
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-Troika- posted:Haha you should read TCC sometime. Most of the people who do the hard stuff are, indeed, vermin or scum and only worth derision. I, too, base the way I view people and the world on what I read on an internet forum.
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May 16, 2015 17:46
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-Troika- posted:Haha you should read TCC sometime. Most of the people who do the hard stuff are, indeed, vermin or scum and only worth derision. Now people who cheer the police killing people because they think those killed are "scum or vermin" are the ones worth derision because its the shortsighted lazy way of thinking (indeed the problem with murdercops and their defenders). You ultimately help more people fixing the cause of the issue than the symptom, but they don't even want to exert enough effort to actually do their job (serve & protect) and end up making it harder to trust good cops who will actually defend citizens from bad cops. Good cops are out there and unfortunately they are run off the force because they show just how lovely other cops are. tezcat fucked around with this message at 18:05 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 18:00
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One of these things is not like the other. I am making fun of people who complain about withdrawal symptoms when they get thrown in jail.
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May 16, 2015 18:06
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-Troika- posted:One of these things is not like the other. I am making fun of people who complain about withdrawal symptoms when they get thrown in jail. Yeah, it's pretty funny when they die, huh? Oh no, wait, it isn't, and that's the reason anyone was even talking about it. e: badgrammar hobotrashcanfires fucked around with this message at 18:12 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 18:08
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-Troika- posted:One of these things is not like the other. I am making fun of people who complain about withdrawal symptoms when they get thrown in jail. Would you make fun of a person who went into diabetic shock if the police didn't treat them as well?
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May 16, 2015 18:10
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Sharkie posted:Would you make fun of a person who went into diabetic shock if the police didn't treat them as well? Clearly that person could have gone into diabetic shock at any time, therefore the police are not liable and the fact that they died was inevitable. Case dismissed.
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May 16, 2015 18:13
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hobotrashcanfires posted:Yeah, it's pretty funny when they die, huh? Because comedy tries to punch up instead of down and -Troika- while being on an internet comedy website has yet to figure that out.
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May 16, 2015 18:15
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-Troika- posted:IMO, if you hate withdrawal, you should probably not be doing drugs that can cause it when your dumb rear end gets arrested and thrown in jail. IMO, if you hate dying, you should probably not be black and get arrested. It's just common sense
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May 16, 2015 18:27
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blunt for century posted:I meant to have them in addition to body and dash cams, not just exclusively handgun cams. I feel that a handgun cam would be harder to block than a body cam, especially if your arms are in front of the body cam while holding/aiming a handgun. I also feel that they should have two body cams rather than just one, one head mounted on a hat or sunglasses, and one chest mounted, again, to make them harder to block the view from the cameras Tape over the lens? I mean if you start with the assumption that the police are going to intentionally going to obscure recording I don't think there's any amount of cameras you can slap on em that will help. At the end of the day there will still need to be a culture change for everything to work out because otherwise the cameras will mysteriously malfunction or there will be no film or batteries or storage space or whatever. tezcat posted:Well if reading TCC is your only contact with people who do hard stuff then I can see that opinion being valid sort of. In my experience most addicts want to break the cycle and just need help in doing so. When given a chance to change their lifestyle, they do and its common for me to hear "its my 10th anniversary of being clean and sober". Reason being usually something lovely in their life seems to be the trigger for abuse to start and when you nullify that they get better. Which is why I agree with treating addiction as a healthcare issue. Addiction recovery has a pretty low success rate, let's not get crazy here. Even among those that want help. tsa fucked around with this message at 18:44 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 18:42
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Sharkie posted:Would you make fun of a person who went into diabetic shock if the police didn't treat them as well? If they got diabetes because of an unquenching hunger for sweets, after the doctor told them that eating sweets would be a dumb idea because they're prone to diabetes, then yes, I would.
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May 16, 2015 18:46
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-Troika- posted:If they got diabetes because of an unquenching hunger for sweets, after the doctor told them that eating sweets would be a dumb idea because they're prone to diabetes, then yes, I would. I hope your life is vice free and stands up to the scrutiny of the ER Doc that might treat you in the future.
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May 16, 2015 18:53
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-Troika- posted:If they got diabetes because of an unquenching hunger for sweets, after the doctor told them that eating sweets would be a dumb idea because they're prone to diabetes, then yes, I would. Cool so you just derive pleasure from people suffering and dying because, in your mind, they deserved it for making bad choices. How about AIDS victims who had unprotected sex? Actually, you know what, I'm just going to leave this alone as you're either failing to conceptualize this incident as involving a real person who has feelings and a family just like you, or you're a sadist. Or you're just trolling. Either way the point of my example was that it's not, in fact funny when a group of people deny someone care and it leads to suffering and death, but any of the above reasons would mean it's not worth engaging you on.
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May 16, 2015 18:53
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-Troika- posted:If they got diabetes because of an unquenching hunger for sweets, after the doctor told them that eating sweets would be a dumb idea because they're prone to diabetes, then yes, I would. A large proportion of people's deaths are premature due to unhealthy lifestyle choices, probably a majority of them. Are they all undeserving of sympathy?
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May 16, 2015 19:32
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blunt for century posted:I meant to have them in addition to body and dash cams, not just exclusively handgun cams. I feel that a handgun cam would be harder to block than a body cam, especially if your arms are in front of the body cam while holding/aiming a handgun. I also feel that they should have two body cams rather than just one, one head mounted on a hat or sunglasses, and one chest mounted, again, to make them harder to block the view from the cameras http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/09/marine-new-york-police-kenneth-chamberlain quote:The moment when police burst into Chamberlain's home was recorded by a camera attached to a Taser. Grainy images show Chamberlain standing in his underwear as the officers move in. The electric volts sent through his body are visible in the clip. The video does not provide a complete account of the entry, with Chamberlain only coming into focus sporadically. It cuts out before the fatal shot is fired but McLaughlin says the police failed to de-escalate the situation. After shocking him with the Taser, McLaughlin says Chamberlain was quickly shot with bean bags, immediately followed by two live rounds fired from Carelli's gun, one that apparently missed and one that did not. Read the rest of the article as well, it's loving horrifying. Some choice quotes: quote:"Do not do that. I'm telling you all, I'm telling you all I'm OK," Chamberlain said in response to the pounding on the door. A voice then responds to Chamberlain: "I don't give a gently caress, friend of the family." Thankfully, it turns out the cops did nothing wrong, so they weren't indicted (I wonder why, considering the DA initially said there was no reasonable cause to indict any of the cops for breaking into his house and murdering him). The system works 
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May 16, 2015 19:34
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tsa posted:Addiction recovery has a pretty low success rate, let's not get crazy here. Even among those that want help. http://alcoholism.about.com/od/dui/a/How-Court-Ordered-Alcoholics-Anonymous-Works.htm quote:If you have been convicted of an alcohol-related offense, the court will sometimes offer you an alternative to going to jail. Because of jail overcrowding and the costs of keeping an offender incarcerated, many jurisdictions offer some kind of alternate or diversion program, such as A.A.. http://www.npr.org/2014/03/23/291405829/with-sobering-science-doctor-debunks-12-step-recovery quote:There is a large body of evidence now looking at AA success rate, and the success rate of AA is between 5 and 10 percent. Most people don't seem to know that because it's not widely publicized. ... There are some studies that have claimed to show scientifically that AA is useful. These studies are riddled with scientific errors and they say no more than what we knew to begin with, which is that AA has probably the worst success rate in all of medicine. (Previously I had seen the "optimistic" success rates listed at 20 percent.) Based on actual work done on addiction, the only truly positive thing about AA (etc) is the sense of community, and the drive to keep people involved in the social group. Aggressively destroying depression-inducing loneliness/isolation is a huge thing (and possibly the only real value in the otherwise almost-sure-to-fail twelve-step model).
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May 16, 2015 19:45
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Sharkie posted:Cool so you just derive pleasure from people suffering and dying because, in your mind, they deserved it for making bad choices. How about AIDS victims who had unprotected sex? Actually, you know what, I'm just going to leave this alone as you're either failing to conceptualize this incident as involving a real person who has feelings and a family just like you, or you're a sadist. Or you're just trolling. I am perfectly fine with laughing at people suffering because of dumb life choices.
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May 16, 2015 19:55
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nm.
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May 16, 2015 19:56
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-Troika- posted:I am perfectly fine with laughing at people suffering because of dumb life choices.
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May 16, 2015 20:03
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-Troika- posted:I am perfectly fine with laughing at people suffering because of dumb life choices. "Oh no, I'm terrified of the prospect that we don't live in a just world and life isn't fair, so if I pretend every bad thing that happens to people is their own fault, I can maintain my naive, cowardly world view!"
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May 16, 2015 20:16
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Samurai Sanders posted:I'm not going to laugh at suffering people no matter what. That seems like some kind of basic political division right there. I wonder how it's expressed in terms of US politics? Edit: Although most people do have the good taste to stop laughing by the time the paramedics show up. Rent-A-Cop fucked around with this message at 20:21 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 20:16
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-Troika- posted:One of these things is not like the other. I am making fun of people who complain about withdrawal symptoms when they get thrown in jail. You are aware that several medically-prescribed drugs, like the more powerful antidepressants, are addictive and cause withdrawal, yes?
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May 16, 2015 20:24
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I guess its related to the criminal justice portion of the thread, but really the topic is too big for this thread IMO. Laughing at this as an issue is childish. Per this article just alcohol addiction is currently inclusive of more than 18 million Americans. About 8% of those get "treatment", and 80-95% of those treated will be failed treatments. Our way of treating addiction is about as advanced as the way the dark ages dealt with serious mental disorders. "Tell them to pray to an invisible man and slap them when they dont like it". http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/ryan-rogers-rehab-alcoholic-drugged quote:The Rehab Racket: The Way We Treat Addiction Is a Costly, Dangerous Mess quote:Part of the problem is that alcohol and drug abuse have been seen less as medical conditions than moral failings requiring self-discipline, according to Scott Walters, a University of North Texas psychologist who has studied addiction treatment. The model popularized by Alcoholics Anonymous, though effective in many cases, is not based on modern science or medical research. One result are clinics staffed by "counselors" who in many states are required to have only minimal training in responding to the serious medical problems that addicts like Ryan often face. Modern psychiatry is (slowly) being outed as being full of far too much marketing-based pseudoscience, which is ironic because some of its biggest fans love screaming that word at people that dont like their pill industry. http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=185157 quote:The magnitude of benefit of antidepressant medication compared with placebo increases with severity of depression symptoms and may be minimal or nonexistent, on average, in patients with mild or moderate symptoms. For patients with very severe depression, the benefit of medications over placebo is substantial. So, essentially, for most people they would be far better off with a social group than a fistful of profitable pills that produce a variety of side effects (which can include depression, anxiety, and suicidal mentation). http://healthland.time.com/2012/01/18/new-research-on-the-antidepressant-versus-placebo-debate/ quote:A separate study published in the American Journal of Psychiatry (AJP) in December highlights other potential complications. The authors of that paper report that since 1980, the percentage of depressed patients responding to a placebo in clinical trials has risen by 7% per decade, reaching 50% in some studies. http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2008/02/26/do-antidepressants-work-better-than-placebos/ quote:Antidepressants don’t work much better than placebos for many depressed patients, an analysis in the journal PLoS Medicine found. But for many patients, placebos work pretty well indeed. The science of the psych-pill industry still depends on its original legs too much, faith and marketing: http://www.newyorker.com/tech/elements/the-psychiatric-drug-crisis quote:Having been discovered by accident, however, they lacked one important element: a theory that accounted for why they worked (or, in many cases, did not). Pray harder! : http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/psychiatric-drugs-harm-than-good-ssri-antidepressants-benzodiazepines quote:Another major problem with psychiatric drugs is that they can cause the symptoms they are supposed to alleviate. Unfortunately, psychiatrists tend to increase the dose or add another drug when a patient reports negative effects. Psychiatrists use the same metric for improving their results as cops do (semi-ironically). "The cops are failing -> send more cops!" "The pills are failing -> send more pills!" We are digging our way out of the dark ages where psychiatry is concerned faster than we are with the growing police state though. 
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May 16, 2015 20:27
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-Troika- posted:I am perfectly fine with laughing at people suffering because of dumb life choices. Pack it up D&D you just can't handle this guy.
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May 16, 2015 20:57
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It probably isn't because laughing at the misfortune of people you don't like is drat near hardwired in. An idiot falling down is the simplest joke in the world.
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May 16, 2015 20:59
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-Troika- posted:I am perfectly fine with laughing at people suffering because of dumb life choices. Edgy af Darth Walrus posted:You are aware that several medically-prescribed drugs, like the more powerful antidepressants, are addictive and cause withdrawal, yes? Benzo withdrawal will kill you way easier than heroin withdrawal and tons of people are prescribed those.
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May 16, 2015 21:15
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FRINGE posted:I guess its related to the criminal justice portion of the thread, but really the topic is too big for this thread IMO. This really would be a great separate topic. My personal guess is that the psychotropic drugs work by just suppressing brain activity generally, so you get less variation, fewer emotional swings, but lots of long-term damage. Psychology can really be surprisingly effective, though.
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May 16, 2015 21:21
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Dum Cumpster posted:How do these people not quit their jobs after ruining someone's life? Are they completely devoid of empathy? This is the thing that gets me, especially in regards to on-duty "justifiable" or "accidental" shootings of innocent people. If, in the course of my job, I made a mistake or had an accident that caused an innocent person to die violently by my hand before my eyes, I don't think I would be able to get out of bed, let alone touch a loving gun ever again, let alone strap one on and return to the same job the puts me in the same kinds of situations again. How can that SWAT guy who shot the 7-year-old girl in the head actually WANT to go back to that job, if it was a true accident and he was not that kind of person? But I also came to figure, maybe for cops, the us-versus-them thing means their whole support structure essentially is their other buddies on the force. So after a traumatic experience, regardless of whether they'd want to DO the work itself again, that's where they'd feed the need to BE, around their "family," the only other people they perceive as understanding what they've been through.
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May 16, 2015 21:26
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Psychology can really be surprisingly effective, though. Back to "news"! http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/video-reveals-baltimore-cops-were-looting-during-freddie-gray-protests quote:Video Reveals Baltimore Cops Were Looting During Freddie Gray Protests
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May 16, 2015 21:33
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Cichlid the Loach posted:This is the thing that gets me, especially in regards to on-duty "justifiable" or "accidental" shootings of innocent people. If, in the course of my job, I made a mistake or had an accident that caused an innocent person to die violently by my hand before my eyes, I don't think I would be able to get out of bed, let alone touch a loving gun ever again, let alone strap one on and return to the same job the puts me in the same kinds of situations again. What?!!?
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May 16, 2015 21:53
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Agrajag posted:What?!!? People depend on their existing social support system, even when that system is the thing leading them to trouble.
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May 16, 2015 22:00
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Agrajag posted:What?!!? Which part of my post are you saying that to? Btw you seem to have incorrectly nested the quote tags so it looks like my own middle sentence was written by someone else and I'm refuting it or something, are you confused about which opinion I'm espousing?
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May 16, 2015 22:24
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-Troika- posted:If they got diabetes because of an unquenching hunger for sweets, after the doctor told them that eating sweets would be a dumb idea because they're prone to diabetes, then yes, I would. Here is a hint. Most people that have diabetes don't know that they have until late in their lives because many people can't afford to go see a doctor. Also, there is a lot more to look out for when you have diabetes than simply "sweets"
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May 16, 2015 22:47
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 Is this real?
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May 16, 2015 23:32
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Merdifex posted:
The phrasing of that post makes me think the poster has a particular opinion on the protests in general. Perhaps it did happen, but if it did, then I am shocked that it managed to never go viral in the past 5 months given how quickly things go viral when a black people are alleged to have done something bad during a protest. I am also surprised that it hasn't been trotted out multiple times since then by closeted racist brigade. Just look at the last protests when things got heated on that Saturday afternoon and fights broke out.
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