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El Seano posted:It's a naive question for sure but why are fullbacks held in such low regard against nearly every other position? I'd imagine the proliferation of the single back set has a lot to do with this. Basically the fullback has been somewhat schemed out of the game, if you can accomplish the same thing with more blockers up front there isn't much reason to value a FB for those rare* times you'll use him. *-this obviously changes by team. Also for whatever it's worth some of my favorite players were fullbacks, Tony Richardson and Kimble Anders were the best. This doesn't have anything to do with current football but there was also a brief, beautiful period in the 90s where fullbacks were catching passes constantly and I miss it. Seriously like 90+ receptions/year for fullbacks. Or a fullback (Larry Centers) at least, maybe two.
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May 8, 2015 02:14
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Browns fans still clamor for Lawrence Vickers, unsung hero of the Browns 2006-10.
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May 8, 2015 02:22
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Grittybeard posted:I'd imagine the proliferation of the single back set has a lot to do with this. Basically the fullback has been somewhat schemed out of the game, if you can accomplish the same thing with more blockers up front there isn't much reason to value a FB for those rare* times you'll use him. Norv Turner's greatest crime was phasing Lorenzo Neal out of the offense in San Diego. Let's all remember the era of Tony Richardson, Mack Strong, and Lorenzo Neal
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May 8, 2015 02:36
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El Seano posted:Particularly watching Hard Knocks a lot lately they seem to either draft FB's very late or just take them as UDFA's. titans just drafted a FB named jalston fowler in the 4th round so if a FB is good enough he will be drafted higher than very late
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May 8, 2015 03:10
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Fullbacks own and I sure that any goon who would ever miraculously coach a team would be pounding on every table they could for at least one.
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May 8, 2015 03:54
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Grittybeard posted:This doesn't have anything to do with current football but there was also a brief, beautiful period in the 90s where fullbacks were catching passes constantly and I miss it. Seriously like 90+ receptions/year for fullbacks. Or a fullback (Larry Centers) at least, maybe two.
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May 8, 2015 04:46
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If you attempt a field goal at 1st, 2nd or 3rd down and you miss, what happens? Another attempt or a turnover?
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May 8, 2015 09:04
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OperaMouse posted:If you attempt a field goal at 1st, 2nd or 3rd down and you miss, what happens? Another attempt or a turnover? Depends. If you actually kick the ball and it goes past the line of scrimmage, then its a turnover. If you run a fake or do anything other than kick the ball (bad snap and cover being the most common) then its treated the same as a play from scrimmage. So, as long as its not a turnover on downs, it stays with the kicking team.
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May 8, 2015 09:56
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El Seano posted:So in continuing to try and learn about the game would you guys agree that the Fullback is the least regarded position on the team outside of kickers? Last season a few FBs were in for like 40% of offensive plays (B.Miller K.Juszczyk M.Reece) and then it drops off pretty fast -- for most teams it's in the 10-25% range. It's not to say this is the CORRECT strategy/valuation but the trend is what it is. edit: also I don't know how much of this is commentator-speak more than what coaches are actually thinking but if you're as obsessed with creating the MISMATCH as they seem to be then putting a FB on the field is generally a step in the wrong direction. pangstrom fucked around with this message at 12:11 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 12:08
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OperaMouse posted:If you attempt a field goal at 1st, 2nd or 3rd down and you miss, what happens? Another attempt or a turnover? As mentioned, the important thing about any scrimmage kick, whether field goal or punt, is whether the ball crosses the neutral zone. If it doesn't, Team A can recover the ball, it's still live, and the down continues as normal. They can throw a forward pass. They can even kick the ball again, if they want to. However, the line to gain is in the same place and they need to get there for another first down. If they don't make it, their series continues. The only thing that changes is that the game clock stops at the end of the down. Once the ball is kicked and crosses the neutral zone, the continuity of downs is broken and Team A is considered to have given up its right to be in possession. The only way they'll get the ball back now is if Team B touches it first. Which except at the end of a half when you need to run it back for a touchdown is an incredibly dumb thing to do, since if you just leave it alone, the ball will return either to the previous spot (NCAA) or the spot of the kick (NFL). This is why That Leon Lett Play was so completely hilarious even without it being Leon Lett; there was literally less than no reason for him to be in the same zip code as the football.
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May 8, 2015 18:21
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Refs aren't full-time employees, right? How are they compensated? If they're not full-time, what do they do when they're not working for the NFL? I remember their union got into it with the NFL a while back, which is what caused the replacement refs poo poo, did the refs' union actually win anything meaningful in that case?
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May 12, 2015 04:08
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VJeff posted:Refs aren't full-time employees, right? How are they compensated? If they're not full-time, what do they do when they're not working for the NFL? I remember their union got into it with the NFL a while back, which is what caused the replacement refs poo poo, did the refs' union actually win anything meaningful in that case? They got to go back to work when the replacements were embarrassingly bad, I figure they mostly got what they wanted. They make somewhere in the neighborhood of 200k a year from the NFL I believe. As to what they do for their other jobs it's...just whatever. Guns is a lawyer I know, I found this lead from an old CNN story: quote:The co-owner of a supply company. An insurance broker. The director of housing preservation and development. A sales broker. A probation officer. A high school teacher. A computer systems analyst.
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May 12, 2015 04:19
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There's now one full-time official at each position who works as a sub-supervisor of officials for that position; and there's also been a trend in recent years for NCAA conferences to hire an active NFL official as their supervisor. (The vast majority do still have a real job.) This article is a decent overview of what the lockout was about (pensions were by far the biggest issue because a lot of officials made career decisions based on having the generous NFL pension to fall back on), although it does significantly underplay the issue of hiring more officials to make it easier to (among other things) take someone off their schedule for a week or two if they drop a bollock at the wrong time.
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May 12, 2015 10:36
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This is a pretty neat series SI did follwing Gene Steratore and his crew for the week leading up to a game. It shows what all the officials have to do between games and just how much prep work goes into each one.
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May 12, 2015 18:43
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A long time ago someone was asking about power blocking vs zone blocking. They're probably not around anymore and if they are they've figured things out, but here's a pretty good write up on the subject.
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May 15, 2015 23:05
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Grittybeard posted:A long time ago someone was asking about power blocking vs zone blocking. They're probably not around anymore and if they are they've figured things out, but here's a pretty good write up on the subject. Thanks, that was a good article. If the nameless individual wants more info on how the ZBS works here is a great breakdown from Fieldgulls. The Seahawks run a ZBS under Carroll. I don't know who else in the league uses it. http://www.fieldgulls.com/football-breakdowns/2014/2/18/5394212/seahawks-marshawn-lynch-zone-blocking-scheme-tom-cable
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May 16, 2015 19:39
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Chichevache posted:Thanks, that was a good article. The Texans.
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May 16, 2015 19:55
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Any Gary Kubiak team runs zone too. If you're watching a game and you want to quickly figure if it's zone or power, the guards will be pulling (moving from their spot) if it's power.
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May 16, 2015 20:22
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Film is useful here. Zone blocking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azlLStj7u3E The linemen stay in their original alignment. Nobody moves across the formation. Power blocking: https://youtu.be/X0nYDqpLzx0?t=1m14s In the first play, watch A74, the left tackle (on the right of the screen). He's going to pull across the formation and block B30 at the left corner to break the runner free. (Meanwhile, in accordance with the Law of Lineman Anonymity, the talking head craps on about what a great physical runner the running back is.)
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May 17, 2015 01:52
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What if a team had to play themself because they got scheduled wrong?
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May 29, 2015 01:39
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Lord Waffle Beard posted:What if a team had to play themself because they got scheduled wrong? I believe that's generally referred to as a "bye".
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May 29, 2015 01:56
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Lord Waffle Beard posted:What if a team had to play themself because they got scheduled wrong? The 2012 Packers had to fight their own defense for a whole season. 
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May 29, 2015 02:07
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Kalli posted:I can recommend War Room by Michael Holley for this: http://www.amazon.com/War-Room-Belichick-Building-Perfect/dp/006208240X Just quoting for posterity, I looked this up, I'm about halfway through, and its a very good read. Holds your attention and goes into a lot of the side stories behind building a successful NFL team. The attention to detail they go to in scouting is unreal.
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May 30, 2015 13:02
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So in my continued "Watch a lot of Hard Knocks" based NFL education I'm always seeing co-ordinators on the sideline covering their mouths to prevent lip reading. Do teams seriously have someone out there every game trying to lip read the co-ordinator or is it just basically near superstition at this point? It just seems odd that they always do it, surely nobody has lip read a call in the NFL in the last 20 years?
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Jun 3, 2015 23:28
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If there's a conceivable way to cheat someone will try to do so, I'd say it's probably not just paranoia. I'm sure it's mostly just a habit they get in. They do the same thing in baseball when the catcher goes out to the mound and it always seems dumb to me there too, but everyone does it.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:37
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It's prohibited to intercept radio signals or tap the phone from the pressbox to the sideline, but anything said or done in the open is fair game. And yes, teams will use spotters with binoculars to lipread stuff said privately on the sidelines.
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Jun 3, 2015 23:56
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Deteriorata posted:It's prohibited to intercept radio signals or tap the phone from the pressbox to the sideline, but anything said or done in the open is fair game. And yes, teams will use spotters with binoculars to lipread stuff said privately on the sidelines. Yeah, far as I know, lip reading is permitted since its on the sidelines and thus out in the open.
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Jun 4, 2015 00:31
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I've never understood the pictures of HAMSTER VOLCANO CHUCK NORRIS GUITAR DON DRAPER LIQUOR BOTTLE playcalling boards that are in fashion..
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Jun 4, 2015 01:00
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Yeah I should have said if there's some way to gain an advantage they'll try it instead of framing it as cheating. I guess after thinking about it this is kind of what the whole spygate thing was about though. Not lip reading exactly but they were recording the defensive signals and noting down/distance/clock time theoretically so they could go back and decipher the signals later. Merely watching the signals is fine but you're not supposed to record them any more.
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Jun 4, 2015 01:01
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Sash! posted:I've never understood the pictures of HAMSTER VOLCANO CHUCK NORRIS GUITAR DON DRAPER LIQUOR BOTTLE playcalling boards that are in fashion.. Still the best comment on those:  (They didn't.)
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Jun 4, 2015 01:17
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El Seano posted:So in my continued "Watch a lot of Hard Knocks" based NFL education I'm always seeing co-ordinators on the sideline covering their mouths to prevent lip reading. Do teams seriously have someone out there every game trying to lip read the co-ordinator or is it just basically near superstition at this point? It just seems odd that they always do it, surely nobody has lip read a call in the NFL in the last 20 years?
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Jun 4, 2015 01:47
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Trin Tragula posted:Still the best comment on those: 
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Jun 4, 2015 01:49
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Sash! posted:I've never understood the pictures of HAMSTER VOLCANO CHUCK NORRIS GUITAR DON DRAPER LIQUOR BOTTLE playcalling boards that are in fashion..
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Jun 4, 2015 02:30
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A boring but practical part of covering your mouth with the play sheet is to direct as much sound into the mic as possible because football stadiums are loud.
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Jun 4, 2015 04:08
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Sash! posted:I've never understood the pictures of HAMSTER VOLCANO CHUCK NORRIS GUITAR DON DRAPER LIQUOR BOTTLE playcalling boards that are in fashion.. Easier to see across a field, harder to misinterpret than someone spitting a string of keywords over a mic through the stadium noise, allows the whole team to get the playcall without whoever has a mic having to relay it to everyone else which allows quicker tempo if that's what you're goin' for. Plus they can be loving hilarious.
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Jun 4, 2015 06:07
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It's important also to remember here that NCAA teams are not allowed to use helmet radios. (Because they stink, and they make things too easy, and also not allowing them means teams have to come up with hilarious alternatives like this.)
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Jun 4, 2015 10:45
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Badfinger posted:A boring but practical part of covering your mouth with the play sheet is to direct as much sound into the mic as possible because football stadiums are loud. I hadn't even considered that aspect. Thanks for the answers guys that settles that one for me. edit: Also I can understand the first one "someone cover crabtree please" but whats the second one mean?
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Jun 4, 2015 17:42
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El Seano posted:I hadn't even considered that aspect. Thanks for the answers guys that settles that one for me. The first one is a photoshop joke. Those signs are used to signal plays in a way that only the players will understand. The actual code may be as simple as the colors of the boxes and their positioning, with the stuff on top as a distraction to confuse opponents trying to figure them out. What it actually means is unknown, which is the whole point.
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Jun 4, 2015 17:52
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Deteriorata posted:The first one is a photoshop joke. Those signs are used to signal plays in a way that only the players will understand. See this is sort of what I wish I could explain to other people here in the UK who think that American Football is as simple as line up and smack the gently caress out of the other guy. There are layers and complexities to this all I can't really even fathom. Would you guys agree that pre-snap the only guys that know whats supposed to happen is the teams or could a fan/spectator look down and make an educated guess themselves? I know you can't compare sports but when I'm in a stadium watching what you call soccer I can see what formation they're in, I can see what they're trying to achieve. All this talk of 3-4 and 4-3 and the endless, endless stream of poo poo QB's yell before they hike the ball is so confusing. Do you all watch the game and go "ah right they're gonna do this here" most of the time? Cause I watched the recent Superbowl again after 2 months of trying to understand this game and understood maybe half of it. And I'd only drank like a four pack during the whole game which is probably half the average NFL fan, right?
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Jun 5, 2015 00:17
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El Seano posted:Would you guys agree that pre-snap the only guys that know whats supposed to happen is the teams or could a fan/spectator look down and make an educated guess themselves? To some extent you can guess the general type of play based on the offensive formation. If they line up with three tight ends or extra linemen with the running backs in an I it's a good bet the play will be some sort of inside run. Of course the offense knows it looks like a run up the middle so they might run a play action pass or toss the ball outside in an attempt to fool the defense. Or if the offense lines up with five wide receivers and no one but the QB in the backfield it's a good bet the play will be a pass, but it could also be a quarterback draw or end around. On the defensive side if the linebackers or corners are dancing up toward or around the line before the snap they're showing blitz. These days faking blitzes is a matter of course and happens all the time, but they're at least showing pressure to the quarterback. But if 9 or 10 guys are up on the line it's a good bet some of them are coming other than the down linemen, because it's dangerous to not have more guys back and you don't want the QB to have much time to find someone to throw to. You'll hear people talk about quarterbacks reading the defense and that's kind of what they're talking about. Peyton Manning is one of the best ever mostly because he's so incredibly good at figuring out what the defense is actually going to do. On the other hand there's nothing physically wrong with Colin Kaepernick but so far he isn't all that great at figuring out the right place to put the ball or when to get out of plays that would be bad against a certain defensive set. Familiarity with teams and coaches helps too. If you're watching a Mike Leach team at Washington State you know you won't be seeing a whole lot of running. And if you watch Brian Schottenheimer at Georgia you're going to see a power running team that takes deep shots off of play action now and then (also a bad offense because he's a bad coach, but that's beside the point). Knowing the exact play is almost impossible. Playbooks are large and also secret things, they take them away from you when you get cut so you can't share anything but what you remember if another team picks you up.
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Jun 5, 2015 00:44
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