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Nintendo Kid posted:FDR was pretty far left in practice, but he was also part of a centuries old political dynasty in New York and had extensive ties to other old money types. So needless the say he wasn't nearly as frightening to moneyed interests as say Obama or even Bill Clinton with the same policies would be. Yeah man moneyed interests were a huge fan of FDR what the gently caress are you smoking
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May 17, 2015 07:33
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Fulchrum posted:But in the last 50 years, the furthest left candidate against the furthest right candidate was the biggest defeat. Yeah, I know, President Goldwater crushed that Johnson fellow, dismantled Medicare, Medicaid, civil rights, and led America to a new age of conservative prosperity.
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May 17, 2015 14:36
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They're brown people, and brown people aren't Christians.
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May 17, 2015 14:39
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Raskolnikov38 posted:Obama proves that a mark penn run Hillary campaign is beatable, whoever is running the show now probably isn't scroogled levels of dumb.
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May 17, 2015 14:56
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Tatum Girlparts posted:This may be the wrongest thing you've ever said. Not only did he have the typical 'a leftist politician DISGUSTING' baggage but spoiler alert, old money political dynasties hate each other for the most part. His 'peers' despised him from the moment his presidency started in huge amounts. The man (most likely) had a loving coup planned on him entirely led and designed by the wealthy moneyed interests. There has never been any evidence the coup was actually real as opposed to the sayings of a deranged man.
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May 17, 2015 15:32
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Rubio: Invading Iraq "Not a Mistake"Marco Rubio posted:I still say it was not a mistake, because the president was presented with intelligence that said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction ... [Bush] made the right decision based on what he knew at that time. We learned subsequently that information was wrong. My answer is, at the time, it appears the intelligence was wrong.
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May 17, 2015 16:16
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That's a distinction without a difference, but I expect it will resonate just fine. In other news,  https://vine.co/v/eKxPppqIzUn http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/16/mitt-romney-evander-holyfield_n_7297600.html messagemode1 fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 16:19
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"subsequently"
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May 17, 2015 16:24
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If I were to imagine one, that would be the perfect default Republican "Iraq" answer. It slips through supporting the republican party, defending the faithful, and opposing the war like a goddamn water moccasin.
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May 17, 2015 16:26
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Nintendo Kid posted:There has never been any evidence the coup was actually real as opposed to the sayings of a deranged man. I'm gonna take Smedly Butler's word over Prescott Bush's thank you very much.
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May 17, 2015 16:31
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Is Romney taking a dive to Holyfield possibly him hinting that he was forced to take a dive to Obama in 2012??
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May 17, 2015 16:34
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I'm gonna take Smedly Butler's word over Prescott Bush's thank you very much. Smedly Butler said a few guys tried to claim they were behind one, not that there was any proof they actually were backed by anything.
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May 17, 2015 16:39
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messagemode1 posted:That's a distinction without a difference, but I expect it will resonate just fine. This whole affair is embarrassing as Hell for everyone involved and I really hope that charity is worthwhile.
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May 17, 2015 16:49
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sullat posted:Yeah, I know, President Goldwater crushed that Johnson fellow, dismantled Medicare, Medicaid, civil rights, and led America to a new age of conservative prosperity. You're not wrong. It just took 50 years longer than expected.
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May 17, 2015 17:09
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ComradeCosmobot posted:You're not wrong. It just took 50 years longer than expected. Still waiting.
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May 17, 2015 17:10
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Series DD Funding posted:Still waiting. That's the thing about conservative "prosperity"... The key takeaway though is that while Goldwater lost, in the end, the ideas he represented won and now represent one side of that "middle truth" people seem to think exists in politics. ComradeCosmobot fucked around with this message at 17:14 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 17:12
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Solid Poopsnake posted:This whole affair is embarrassing as Hell for everyone involved and I really hope that charity is worthwhile. It was for people with impaired vision in developing nations, so probably.
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May 17, 2015 17:36
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ComradeCosmobot posted:You're not wrong. It just took 50 years longer than expected.
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May 17, 2015 18:47
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I don't believe in Marco Rubio as a threat. I'm watching his interview with Chris Wallace and he's an absolute mess. He's salty and literally stuttering over Wallace pressing him to clarify different sounding statements. If Chris Wallace is making you look this bad then how in the world are you going to survive the presidential election?
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May 17, 2015 19:16
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STAC Goat posted:I don't believe in Marco Rubio as a threat. I'm watching his interview with Chris Wallace and he's an absolute mess. He's salty and literally stuttering over Wallace pressing him to clarify different sounding statements. If Chris Wallace is making you look this bad then how in the world are you going to survive the presidential election? It seems like this is becoming a pattern in the Republican race this cycle. Jeb, Rand Paul, and Rubio all have shown themselves to be very standoffish and salty when confronted with even softball questions. They just don't come across well at all when speaking, and it makes me nervous/excited for the debates. I'm expecting some serious meltdowns when they roll around
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May 17, 2015 19:33
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That's why I think Perry is the next hot thing come the first debate on August 6th. Walker and Bush are unpolished while Rubio, Cruz and Paul come across as whiny. When they're all standing up next to each other, Perry will look the most presidential. I'm not saying he'll win the nomination, but I think he'll hit the top-tier in polling at least once this cycle.
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May 17, 2015 19:45
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I question your implication that significant contingents of the 2012 clown car didn't come across as unpolished, whiny, or both. Also, even if Perry does look presidential in comparison, which I also doubt, that's not going to help much once he opens his mouth, and god help him if the word 'oops' leaves it in any context before the primaries begin.
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May 17, 2015 19:56
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The gaw-shucks thing can work (observe the years 2000 - 2008) but did not avail Perry in 2012 because people were tired of it. It will not avail him in 2016 because Mike Huckabee is better at it than him.
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May 17, 2015 20:04
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Mr Jaunts posted:It seems like this is becoming a pattern in the Republican race this cycle. Jeb, Rand Paul, and Rubio all have shown themselves to be very standoffish and salty when confronted with even softball questions. They just don't come across well at all when speaking, and it makes me nervous/excited for the debates. I'm expecting some serious meltdowns when they roll around It could be argued that this is just another lurking variable come to light that is the result of the Right Wing media bubble. Everyone just spouts talking points and agrees, while the high point of disagreement is articulating just how much Liberals suck. Then every 4 years someone opens the door to the outside and interaction occurs between the denizens of the bubble and those of the real world. Suddenly Chris Mathews is tossing his soft balls over hand, and people are actually questioning the candidates firmly reinforced group think opinions.
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May 17, 2015 20:07
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Mr Jaunts posted:It seems like this is becoming a pattern in the Republican race this cycle. Jeb, Rand Paul, and Rubio all have shown themselves to be very standoffish and salty when confronted with even softball questions. They just don't come across well at all when speaking, and it makes me nervous/excited for the debates. I'm expecting some serious meltdowns when they roll around As much as I'd prefer Bernie, it'll still be gratifying to watch Clinton roll over whichever of these dopes that finally gets the nod.
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May 17, 2015 20:11
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Gyges posted:It could be argued that this is just another lurking variable come to light that is the result of the Right Wing media bubble. Everyone just spouts talking points and agrees, while the high point of disagreement is articulating just how much Liberals suck. Then every 4 years someone opens the door to the outside and interaction occurs between the denizens of the bubble and those of the real world. Suddenly Chris Mathews is tossing his soft balls over hand, and people are actually questioning the candidates firmly reinforced group think opinions. Thing is, it wasn't even Chris MATTHEWS, Rubio got "grilled" by Chris WALLACE. Jeb's disastrous week came from a question by Megyn Kelly and then screwed it up again with Sean Hannity. I'm not surprised that the Republican candidates are hostile with media, I'm surprised they're hostile with conservative media. Sure, they should encounter troubles once they leave the conservative bubble but what does it say when they're encountering these troubles inside the bubble? If one candidate is going to make a good first impression if/when they all stumble in the first debate I imagine that might be Huckabee. Just because that guy doesn't seem to blink when being asked if he cons diabetes patients out of money with sugar pills. Huckabee will just tell his lie and give his southern preacher charm and if the rest of them are stumbling over themselves he could end up looking competent.
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May 17, 2015 20:14
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Expectations for Rick Perry are so low at this point that I suspect if he simply doesn't poo poo his pants (or if he only pisses on them) in his first few public appearances he'll be a media darling all of a sudden.
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May 17, 2015 20:17
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Vox Nihili posted:As much as I'd prefer Bernie, it'll still be gratifying to watch Clinton roll over whichever of these dopes that finally gets the nod. It will be quite embarrassing, actually, and to such an extent, the Republican will start to get sympathy votes, possibly leading to a dangerously close result.
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May 17, 2015 20:19
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Aliquid posted:That's why I think Perry is the next hot thing come the first debate on August 6th. Walker and Bush are unpolished while Rubio, Cruz and Paul come across as whiny. When they're all standing up next to each other, Perry will look the most presidential. I'm not saying he'll win the nomination, but I think he'll hit the top-tier in polling at least once this cycle. Whether or not it's Perry (and I honestly doubt it will be), imo the winner of the early debates will be whichever candidate is smart enough to take the Romney 2012 strategy: just shut your mouth and let your opponents destroy themselves with their own words. I think most of them are too vain and selfserving to not spout their mouths off. God, August can't come soon enough. Gyges posted:It could be argued that this is just another lurking variable come to light that is the result of the Right Wing media bubble. Everyone just spouts talking points and agrees, while the high point of disagreement is articulating just how much Liberals suck. Then every 4 years someone opens the door to the outside and interaction occurs between the denizens of the bubble and those of the real world. Suddenly Chris Mathews is tossing his soft balls over hand, and people are actually questioning the candidates firmly reinforced group think opinions. I think part of it certainly is inexperience and discomfort speaking outside of the echochamber, but part of it I think is just inexperience with interacting with people in general. Remember, the whole flap with Jeb and Iraq was started with what should've been an easy interview on Fox News. sexy fucking muskrat fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 20:26
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Aliquid posted:That's why I think Perry is the next hot thing come the first debate on August 6th. Walker and Bush are unpolished while Rubio, Cruz and Paul come across as whiny. When they're all standing up next to each other, Perry will look the most presidential. I'm not saying he'll win the nomination, but I think he'll hit the top-tier in polling at least once this cycle. There's nothing polished about Perry. Now they may have been polishing him up during the offseason (beyond the "smart guy" glasses heh) but if 2012 showed anything it's that you can easily win multiple terms as incumbent GOP governor of Texas without having any difficult debates or media encounters. All that's required is to run, and toss a little red meat to the base from time to time. For proof just look at the foolishness the current Texas governor is inolved in, and he will easily win reelection too, any realignment in Texas is a long way off, it's only drifted further rightward the last several years. TV ads during primary season last election were a total horror show of who could be wingnuttiest.
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May 17, 2015 20:30
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The FP debate will be special, not looking like a total incompetent will be a good result against her.
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May 17, 2015 20:33
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STAC Goat posted:Thing is, it wasn't even Chris MATTHEWS, Rubio got "grilled" by Chris WALLACE. Jeb's disastrous week came from a question by Megyn Kelly and then screwed it up again with Sean Hannity. I'm not surprised that the Republican candidates are hostile with media, I'm surprised they're hostile with conservative media. Sure, they should encounter troubles once they leave the conservative bubble but what does it say when they're encountering these troubles inside the bubble? There's two things going on. First, as much as Fox is just a mouthpiece for Ailes and the Republicans, most of the people working there do think they are journalists. So every time there's an election they put on their big boy pants and pretend to be super for real reporters. This mostly takes the form of letting candidates discus hot button issues and walk back previous statements in a friendly environment. However there will be the rouge actual question that makes it through. Republicans candidates are not used to this and have a good chance of tripping all over themselves now that they aren't getting easy alley-oops to slam home. Second, of all the media personalities on Fox News Megyn Kelly and Chris Wallace are the two most likely to go off the reservation and ask actual questions. Megyn does it with some regularity when one of her pet issues comes up and Chris really does think hes a for real newsman just like his daddy. However that wasn't the problem here. The problem is that Iraq is such a hosed up clusterfuck of a war that even among Republicans cheerleading for it isn't popular. Rubio and Bush were tripped up not by sneaky questions or hard hitting follow ups, they're getting tripped up because people are war weary and their foreign policy goals have a big old war recommendation that comes with them. People love it when Republicans talk about being the big swinging dick on the block who just orders other countries around because America is loving awesome. They don't so much like it when the consequences of that outlook are put in front of them. Especially when you're talking about a war that brought no treasure to the people and in hindsight was clearly unjustified. Even at max cognitive dissidence, nobody wants to hear a guy running for President proudly declare he'd stick our dick in a known beehive because at the time we totally didn't know it was a beehive. This is the bubble's refusal to toughen up contenders amplifying reaction to lovely opinions that aren't even fully supported by the bubble. If these candidates weren't so mollycoddled by the bubble, they'd know to answer that knowing what we know now they wouldn't have done it and move on to the next question. Instead they're first instinct is to agree with the Republican action of going to war, because questioning Republicans is frowned upon in the bubble. Gyges fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 20:55
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STAC Goat posted:Thing is, it wasn't even Chris MATTHEWS, Rubio got "grilled" by Chris WALLACE. Jeb's disastrous week came from a question by Megyn Kelly and then screwed it up again with Sean Hannity. I'm not surprised that the Republican candidates are hostile with media, I'm surprised they're hostile with conservative media. Sure, they should encounter troubles once they leave the conservative bubble but what does it say when they're encountering these troubles inside the bubble? I believe the meme you're looking for goes something like this: 
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May 17, 2015 21:11
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Nonsense posted:It will be quite embarrassing, actually, and to such an extent, the Republican will start to get sympathy votes, possibly leading to a dangerously close result. There was a non-too-subtle sexist element hovering around Palin's candidacy where people were unsure if Joe Biden could go hard against her in the debate in case the optics made it look like he was bullying a woman, and I wonder if we won't see an echo of that with Hillary. At the very least expect grousing from Conservatives that their candidate is forced to hold back against Hillary to avoid media persecution because she's a woman. Edit - I don't see as much excitement surrounding Hillary as the first female President as there was around Obama as the first black President. Admittedly there's a host of reasons including that the two aren't exactly equal achievements (though both huge steps), but it seems like Hillary as a major political event transcends Hillary as a human being, as though her being a woman is incidental. Dolash fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 17, 2015 |
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May 17, 2015 21:17
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Dolash posted:There was a non-too-subtle sexist element hovering around Palin's candidacy where people were unsure if Joe Biden could go hard against her in the debate in case the optics made it look like he was bullying a woman, and I wonder if we won't see an echo of that with Hillary. At the very least expect grousing from Conservatives that their candidate is forced to hold back against Hillary to avoid media persecution because she's a woman. Hilary already lost an election and now has an aura of inevitability surrounding her, making it seem like more of a rebound or a "me too" after Obama. The Palin VP debate discussion had more to do with Palin being so incompetent and out of her depth that it would seem like Biden was bullying a child on stage and he would come off as overly aggressive and mean spirited. The Republicans haven't been shy about making aggressive and vile attacks on Clinton in the past because "she's a woman" and that won't change going into election season.
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May 17, 2015 21:31
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I don't mean they'd actually go soft on her, just that they'd definitely complain about getting flack for being aggressive to a woman - it's usually a safe bet to assume Republicans will complain about imagined persecution. And certainly, if they have to excuse a debate performance where their guy gets pushed on his back foot they'll claim he was fighting with one arm tied behind his back.
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May 17, 2015 21:45
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Dolash posted:I don't mean they'd actually go soft on her, just that they'd definitely complain about getting flack for being aggressive to a woman - it's usually a safe bet to assume Republicans will complain about imagined persecution. And certainly, if they have to excuse a debate performance where their guy gets pushed on his back foot they'll claim he was fighting with one arm tied behind his back. the actual frontrunner wont complain about this but fox news/any other dudes still enjoying face time certainly will
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May 17, 2015 22:08
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Sharpton's daughter is suing NYC, this will only hurt Hillary and Sanders should drop out.
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May 17, 2015 22:11
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Dolash posted:Edit - I don't see as much excitement surrounding Hillary as the first female President as there was around Obama as the first black President. Admittedly there's a host of reasons including that the two aren't exactly equal achievements (though both huge steps), but it seems like Hillary as a major political event transcends Hillary as a human being, as though her being a woman is incidental. Because it's 9 months to even the primaries. If she wins the nomination and does well in runup to the general, you'll see the excitement for it start building a couple of weeks before the general.
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May 17, 2015 22:24
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Nintendo Kid posted:There has never been any evidence the coup was actually real as opposed to the sayings of a deranged man. lmao calling Smedley Butler a deranged man
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