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whoflungpoop posted:Guys I'm just really concerned that this show about a brutal world full of bad people and bad things has maybe... crossed the line? *clutches necklace of dwarf dicks* can we emptyquote in this thread? I can see why some feminists would take this opportunity to show their dissatisfaction but yeah, this is a thread about the show and not feminism so I won't go there.
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May 18, 2015 10:34
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Smoothrich posted:Are you calling feminists retarded? Now that actually is offensive to gender equality and special education advocates. Embarrassing. Turning that poo poo around might work if I was one of the tumblr boogeymen you apparently see in passing clouds. You weren't paying attention to the conversation, just cop to it, it's not so bad. JT Jag posted:The main thing they could have done to improve the final scene is if they had showed Sansa... taking a few breaths to steady herself or something. Maybe even before walking into the room. She knew, at least to an extent, what was going to happen in there and she accepted it, it's the price she paid for a chance at her revenge. The way they portrayed it, it felt like she had no agency, but she did. I think they kind of did have a scene like that when she parted with Littlefinger and said that she would be a married woman when they next met. Anyway, Dany is getting married I guess so we have another horrible depressing wedding in store this season maybe.
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May 18, 2015 10:35
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:I think they kind of did have a scene like that when she parted with Littlefinger and said that she would be a married woman when they next met.
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May 18, 2015 10:36
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ParliamentOfDogs posted:Anyway, Dany is getting married I guess so we have another horrible depressing wedding in store this season maybe. Jorah shows up with Tyrion just as the honeymoon is about to begin. He quietly puts Tyrion on the table with the other presents and prepares to leave. "Oh no, Jorah," says Dany,"You stay and watch  "
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May 18, 2015 10:37
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JT Jag posted:The main thing they could have done to improve the final scene is if they had showed Sansa... taking a few breaths to steady herself or something. Maybe even before walking into the room. She knew, at least to an extent, what was going to happen in there and she accepted it, it's the price she paid for a chance at her revenge. The way they portrayed it, it felt like she had no agency, but she did. Oh really? How was she going to stop Ramsay from loving her without dying? Explain please.
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May 18, 2015 10:37
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hiddenmovement posted:But a lot of people have been raped. It's fair enough that it hits close enough to home to warrant a reaction as strong as refusing to watch the show anymore. Well this is a loving stupid post. Rape victims are watching this show? Five seasons in? JT Jag posted:The main thing they could have done to improve the final scene is if they had showed Sansa... taking a few breaths to steady herself or something. Maybe even before walking into the room. She knew, at least to an extent, what was going to happen in there and she accepted it, it's the price she paid for a chance at her revenge. The way they portrayed it, it felt like she had no agency, but she did. Yeah, and maybe she should have had a sign around her neck spelling it out for the last few remaining people that are too stupid to know she knew exactly what she might be subjected to when she agreed to marry Ramsay.
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May 18, 2015 10:40
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asap-salafi posted:Oh really? How was she going to stop Ramsay from loving her without dying? Explain please. He didn't say she would stop him. The point of her taking a few breaths is to prepare herself for the rape. In JT Jag's version of the story, which is far better than what we actually saw, Sansa has agency, knows exactly what she's getting into and how horrible it's going to be, but is preparing for bigger things down the road. Those bigger things? We're not there yet, who's to say. But she's not hiding a knife in her dress, she's just owning the situation and not a hapless victim. warcrimes posted:Well this is a loving stupid post. Rape victims are watching this show? Five seasons in?
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May 18, 2015 10:41
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JT Jag posted:Who's gonna die God I was hoping when she said she was reopening the fighting pits that she was going to make the masters fight her dragons for the amusement of the masses. That should be her wedding. All masters dead except that guy. Jerusalem posted:"Oh no, Drogon," says Dany,"You stay and watch
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May 18, 2015 10:43
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:I... do they not get to or something? What is happening in your mind? Anyone who "triggers" over rape probably shouldn't be watching GoT or reading the books.
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May 18, 2015 10:43
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warcrimes posted:Well this is a loving stupid post. Rape victims are watching this show? Five seasons in?
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May 18, 2015 10:43
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Oh my god what is with the misreading in this freakin thread? I dunno. I get the feeling if Ramsey knew she was trying to be strong he would beat her hard enough until she cried, because he's that much of an rear end in a top hat.
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May 18, 2015 10:44
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DaveKap posted:They do. Jesus Christ stop posting now. Sure, man.
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May 18, 2015 10:45
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The Olenna/Cersei burn-off was pretty great, bringing the number of good scenes in this episode to three. "Come on now we both know you're not actually writing anything" "Ah yes the famously tart-tongued Queen of Thorns-" "And the famous tart, Queen Cersei "
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May 18, 2015 10:48
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Things I learned in the final scene: Ramsay is evil, Sansa is a victim, Theon is helpless. Glad they spelled that out for me. This is a criticism that you could level at almost every character this entire season tbh. Which is to say yes, I agree.
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May 18, 2015 10:48
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I still can't believe Cersei doesn't see that her plotting is a giant pit filled with spikes flashing red while,"THIS WILL BACKFIRE CERSEI" booms out of the sky in the voices of all the Gods old and new, and that once the Sparrows are done with the Tyrells they will either move straight for her and the rumors of her incest of their own volition... or be directed that way by a pissed off Olenna. Watching her try and pull that old "too busy writing to pay attention to you" trick that her dad pulled just went to show how completely she misunderstands how things work, and that she isn't the smooth manipulator she thinks she is (as the scene with Littlefinger effortlessly dancing around her proved). Edit: I mean Jesus, she straight up revealed to Littlefinger that Kevan and Jaime aren't factors that need to be considered right now.
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May 18, 2015 10:55
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I think my ideal version of the ending scene is Sansa and Ramsey walking to their chambers, Ramsey being more and more of a creep with each word he says. When they get there, he walks in, and Sansa visibly braces herself before following. Reek makes to step out and then Ramsay says "where are you going, Reek? No, you stay and watch." With a look of shock on his face, Reek meekly closes the door. We never see the inside of the room. Cut to credits. Then it's up to the viewer as to how loving awful the honeymoon is.
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May 18, 2015 10:56
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Smoothrich posted:Are you another self-righteous poster who thinks depicting violence against women is somehow endorsing it or what? You'd think feminists and the like would actually support likable characters being raped for no reason by people they might trust or know since you know, that's often what rape is. I wonder if black people decide to stop watching TV shows that depict a cop beating up a black guy cuz you know, that would be racist..  this went quickly went off the railsJT Jag posted:The main thing they could have done to improve the final scene is if they had showed Sansa... taking a few breaths to steady herself or something. Maybe even before walking into the room. She knew, at least to an extent, what was going to happen in there and she accepted it, it's the price she paid for a chance at her revenge. The way they portrayed it, it felt like she had no agency, but she did. I Agree. FourLeaf fucked around with this message at 11:01 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 10:59
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One of these days people need to realize that showing bad things happening does not mean the show or its writers are endorsing said bad things...
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May 18, 2015 11:06
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MC Fruit Stripe posted:Things I learned in the final scene: Ramsay is evil, Sansa is a victim, Theon is helpless. Glad they spelled that out for me. Exactly this. I'm not scandalized by lovely, sensationalist things happening to people on this show, because that's what it does and I expect it. But this instance changes nothing and provides no new information or stakes. Sansa is still in danger, Theon is still being tortured, Ramsay is still a psychopath. It was clearly supposed to antagonize the audience and provide a visceral reason to hate the Boltons, but everyone already felt those ways. So, what's the point? You've already shown this guy flaying people alive, feeding women to dogs, and cutting off a man's penis...trying to push that envelope further should make you reconsider where you're trying to send it.
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May 18, 2015 11:09
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JT Jag posted:I think my ideal version of the ending scene is Sansa and Ramsey walking to their chambers, Ramsey being more and more of a creep with each word he says. When they get there, he walks in, and Sansa visibly braces herself before following. Reek makes to step out and then Ramsay says "where are you going, Reek? No, you stay and watch." With a look of shock on his face, Reek meekly closes the door. We never see the inside of the room. Cut to credits. Interesting. This is the same argument people made about Theon's torture scene, that the audience didn't need to see, yet we were made to watch anyway. Both of these disturbing scenes involve Ramsey. I wasn't particularly disturbed by either of these scenes, but I wonder why the writers chose to push the envelope on Ramsey's depraved sexual violence if the last depiction of it was so poorly received.
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May 18, 2015 11:09
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I kinda thought a key point of the scene was that Sansa didn't quite know what she got herself into, because there's no way to know. She's smarter and savvier, but there are things she can't prepare for. That's not her fault: rape happens to women in every godamn station in life, all the loving time, in all kinds of settings. Women are attacked by friends, strangers, and husbands, at home, in the street, in public. Did she know know she would be expected to have sex with him? Yeah, probably. Did she know he was an rear end in a top hat? To some extent. But did she expect to be brutally raped while her brothers' killer watched? Highly unlikely. It's loving gross to frame it as if she knew what she was getting herself into (this is a classic accusation aimed at rape victims to diminish the crime!), or to act as if this happening to her nullified what she's been through and the strides she's made (this is an unfortunate tendency people have to see someone as only a victim). Sansa is stronger than she started the show, and she will remain strong (unless the showrunners really wanna lose everyone), because what happened to her was an act of brutality that is neither her fault or some price she paid for anything. It was an evil horrible thing a gross man did. It wouldn't be a better scene if we saw her bracing herself and the violence was obfuscated. A rape scene shouldn't be shot to make you more comfortable with it. If anything, they should have focused on Sansa, not Theon, but they probably realized that would go way too far. Theon was a buffer. Xealot posted:Exactly this. Maybe the point is that there is no point, really. Maybe they realized that the story needed this marriage to happen, and that this scene was the natural conclusion. Then they're left with: do we show it, or not? What is the impact of showing it? What is the impact of not showing it (having a main character raped offscreen) and having to bring it up later? Bobo the Red fucked around with this message at 11:15 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 11:12
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jivjov posted:One of these days people need to realize that showing bad things happening does not mean the show or its writers are endorsing said bad things... Why do you hate women?
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May 18, 2015 11:15
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Myron posted:Why do you hate women? I don't.
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May 18, 2015 11:18
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Bobo the Red posted:I kinda thought a key point of the scene was that Sansa didn't quite know what she got herself into, because there's no way to know. She's smarter and savvier, but there are things she can't prepare for. That's not her fault: rape happens to women in every godamn station in life, all the loving time, in all kinds of settings. Women are attacked by friends, strangers, and husbands, at home, in the street, in public. Did she know know she would be expected to have sex with him? Yeah, probably. Did she know he was an rear end in a top hat? To some extent. But did she expect to be brutally raped while her brothers' killer watched? Highly unlikely. I've been trying to articulate my thoughts on this, but this pretty much sums them up perfectly.
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May 18, 2015 11:20
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The problem with that is that this is a mediocre show with bad writers so it's unlikely they're going to somehow use this scene beyond shock value.
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May 18, 2015 11:22
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Bobo the Red posted:I kinda thought a key point of the scene was that Sansa didn't quite know what she got herself into, because there's no way to know. She's smarter and savvier, but there are things she can't prepare for. That's not her fault: rape happens to women in every godamn station in life, all the loving time, in all kinds of settings. Women are attacked by friends, strangers, and husbands, at home, in the street, in public. Did she know know she would be expected to have sex with him? Yeah, probably. Did she know he was an rear end in a top hat? To some extent. But did she expect to be brutally raped while her brothers' killer watched? Highly unlikely. Thank you. Ramsey is an evil piece of poo poo. And his being an evil piece of poo poo doesn't in any way take away from her strength. I think the focus on Theon, though, was to point out that Theon was acting as the audience, made to watch the abuse of an innocent person and having no power to stop it.
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May 18, 2015 11:22
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So no episode threads this season?
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May 18, 2015 11:24
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My reviewer favorite Natalie Bochenski of Sydney Morning Herald was somewhat upset by this episodequote:... Ramsay Bolton must be destroyed. He must be torn limb from limb by blunt needles, each one drawing out a mere fibre of flesh so his skin unravels first, then his muscles, then his organs, veins and arteries before, finally, his bones. It will be a long and bloody process, but eminently satisfying. It will only end after a starved and rabid rat gnaws off his testicles and he watches his brain being scooped out through his nose with a rusty ice-pick ...
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May 18, 2015 11:28
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BubbleGoose posted:Thank you. Ramsey is an evil piece of poo poo. And his being an evil piece of poo poo doesn't in any way take away from her strength. I think the focus on Theon, though, was to point out that Theon was acting as the audience, made to watch the abuse of an innocent person and having no power to stop it. What takes away from her strength is the writers making her out to be a living pin cushion. She's a sullen, pitiful creature who has been abused for 5 seasons. Her only "growth" is from what LF tells the audience about her supposed cunning. So far, all she's done is dye her hair and made a few obvious remarks. Sansa: "These grapes are delicious". LF: "Hrmm yes, you have learned well these last few months under my wing. These Dornish grapes are of the highest quality. They were your mothers favorite. She was strong. You are strong. Use your strength to protect that which is worth protecting" Sansa: "So can I have more, or?"
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May 18, 2015 11:31
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BubbleGoose posted:Interesting. This is the same argument people made about Theon's torture scene, that the audience didn't need to see, yet we were made to watch anyway. Both of these disturbing scenes involve Ramsey. I wasn't particularly disturbed by either of these scenes, but I wonder why the writers chose to push the envelope on Ramsey's depraved sexual violence if the last depiction of it was so poorly received. This is a tangent, but I actually rewatched all the Theon torture scenes recently and surprisingly, very few of them are redundant. In fact, the only scenes I'd cut out completely were all pre-Ramsey. Every time the show cut back to Theon it revealed something new (first one was "everything is a lie", second was his dick getting chopped off, and the last was the final "your name is Reek"). Each scene did drag on for longer than I'd like though.
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May 18, 2015 11:33
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BubbleGoose posted:Interesting. This is the same argument people made about Theon's torture scene, that the audience didn't need to see, yet we were made to watch anyway. I've commented on this earlier in the thread, but I think the value of showing the Theon torture scenes is that seeing that level of brutality challenges the viewer's previous desire to "punish" Theon for what he did in Winterfell. The revenge people initially wanted became horrifying and upsetting, just through the sheer extreme it goes to. Sansa being raped is different, because it's not particularly challenging the audience. Sansa being raped is a sort of Chekov's gun that nobody needed to see fired...it's been hanging there since Joffrey killed her father, and at this point the threat of it has been implicit to all of her plotlines. I agree with the assessment that a stronger version of this scene would've involved a clearer display of Sansa's resolve; if she braced herself for what was going to happen or even feigned complicity, however they could think to show that. That way, it'd be less about how Sansa is STILL a victim, and more about how she's coping with this horrific circumstance. Which would actually be new territory to explore.
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May 18, 2015 11:36
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I just don't understand why Sansa acted like she doesn't know what she might have to have sex when she get married. Did she go through all these without knowing that she might have to get down with Ramsay or what? It would make sense if she's just uncomfortable with doing it in front of Theon, but I don't know.
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May 18, 2015 11:42
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Baldbeard posted:What takes away from her strength is the writers making her out to be a living pin cushion. She's a sullen, pitiful creature.... Disagree. Her grace, poise, dignity and kindness has aided her survival. But those qualities are often disregarded.
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May 18, 2015 11:42
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Armyman25 posted:So, what is the High Septon going to say when Oleanna tells him that Cersei committed incest with Lancel Lannister? By this point Lancel has long since confessed and repented his sins. He also assumes that he seduced Cercei and that she also repented. Any other accusations of incest would probably be dismissed as hearsay.
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May 18, 2015 11:54
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hemale in pain posted:The problem with that is that this is a mediocre show with bad writers so it's unlikely they're going to somehow use this scene beyond shock value. I would be willing to forgive it if the plot weren't moving at a glacial pace. I bet they wind up cramming all the interesting developments into the last episode like last season. Then we can all sit around saying wowowwowowowowow what an ending! Can't wait for season 6! (which will begin with eight episodes of an imprisoned Brienne talking to Stannis about oaths whilst he corrects her grammar).
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May 18, 2015 12:05
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A good poster posted:By this point Lancel has long since confessed and repented his sins. He also assumes that he seduced Cercei and that she also repented. Any other accusations of incest would probably be dismissed as hearsay. High Sparrow: Well if there is nobody who can present proof that Robert Baratheon's seed was strong enough to overwhelm the natural blond coloration of the Lannister family line, I have no choice but to find Queen Cersei innoce- Gendry comes smashing through the wall in his rowboat, apologizes profusely and then wonders why everybody is staring at him.
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May 18, 2015 12:18
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He must be swole as gently caress by now
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May 18, 2015 12:19
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Btw Tyrion is such an idiot. He was the one who claimed it was lucky to suck dwarf cock -- now everybody wants one in their back pocket.
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May 18, 2015 12:36
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JT Jag posted:The main thing they could have done to improve the final scene is if they had showed Sansa... taking a few breaths to steady herself or something. Maybe even before walking into the room. She knew, at least to an extent, what was going to happen in there and she accepted it, it's the price she paid for a chance at her revenge. The way they portrayed it, it felt like she had no agency, but she did. They did all of that at the wedding - did you miss the pause between them asking if she would take this man and her saying yes. Having another scene of her pausing and composing herself a few minutes later woulds just be redundant,
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May 18, 2015 12:55
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hemale in pain posted:The problem with that is that this is a mediocre show with bad writers so it's unlikely they're going to somehow use this scene beyond shock value. It makes me want to stop watching this show. I've turned off movies for less. That scene could've been 10-15 seconds shorter and had exactly the same gravitas of the brutalised woman without actually broadcasting the results.
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May 18, 2015 12:58
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