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Flesh Forge posted:Literally one guy out of thousands will do this in practice, so let's bend over everyone else who does not really want a rigorously stratified leveling experience for the sake of that one guy. Every game does it that way so that's obviously the only way to do it amirite. Tons of people retroraid on WoW, "literally one guy out of thousands will do this in practice" is hilarious.
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May 18, 2015 20:34
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"tons of people" out of how many exactly e: Compromise is impossible, this is elite internet gaming man!!!
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May 18, 2015 20:42
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Flesh Forge posted:"tons of people" out of how many exactly I'm getting my numbers from the same place you got yours saying that almost no one enjoys being able to avoid spending two minutes "challenging" mobs you've outleveled 50 levels ago. Straight out of your rear end. 
Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 20:44
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Deki posted:"I don't like MMO PVP and thus am perfect to be the one to decide how it works for those that do enjoy it" unironically this
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May 18, 2015 20:50
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I'm getting my numbers from the same place you got yours saying that almost no one enjoys being able to avoid spending two minutes "challenging" mobs you've outleveled 50 levels ago. So let's build a system where it only works one way, and is all in favor of the dudes who like to retro raid and offers no concessions at all to anyone else because gently caress THEM amirite 
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May 18, 2015 20:58
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google timewalking dungeons
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May 18, 2015 21:06
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cthulhoo posted:google timewalking dungeons really? Because i heard timewalker is poorly added atm it weekly and the rewards are meh.
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May 18, 2015 21:08
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Cyron posted:really? Because i heard timewalker is poorly added atm it weekly and the rewards are meh. the underlying concept is an example of the exact thing people itt are pining for i.e. scaling of obsolete content so its not outdoor zones but its something and its in wow, yay i guess  e: also lol @ "enjoying mmo pvp" which totally doesnt translate to "i'm a poopsocking retard who can only get hard while ganking idiot children in the noob area" 
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May 18, 2015 21:11
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cthulhoo posted:the underlying concept is an example of the exact thing people itt are pining for i.e. scaling of obsolete content in wow i want a excuse to go out in the world due to garrisons killing reasons to leave.
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May 18, 2015 21:13
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Flesh Forge posted:So let's build a system where it only works one way, and is all in favor of the dudes who like to retro raid and offers no concessions at all to anyone else because gently caress THEM amirite You've claimed that no one really enjoys being able to trivialize old content, demanded proof that anyone could possibly enjoy it, and now you are mad that "Big Retroraiding" is out to get you. But it's everyone else that is about offering no concessions and being the game police.  Cyron posted:in wow i want a excuse to go out in the world due to garrisons killing reasons to leave. Timewalking dungeons are not going to get people out of the garrison because people don't even run regular dungeons now. Here is the entire appeal of timewalking dungeons: You can get the same rewards that you would running a regular dungeon, exception: 1) It's more of a pain in the butt because old dungeon design was crappier and nothing is changing except the numbers 2) You can get an item with a retro appearance, but you could get that same appearance by taking three minutes to walk through the dungeon with nothing able to touch you and just place the items appearance over an item of the same ilvl which you probably got in some easy way like doing LFR once and then getting a free piece of Normal raid gear every week through your garrison. Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 21:15
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Cyron posted:in wow i want a excuse to go out in the world due to garrisons killing reasons to leave. farm some apexis, report back itt on how fun it was
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May 18, 2015 21:16
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Cyron posted:really? Because i heard timewalker is poorly added atm it weekly and the rewards are meh. Timewalking isn't even live. Naturally, the tuning isn't done yet.
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May 18, 2015 21:18
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Mormon Star Wars posted:You've claimed that no one really enjoys being able to trivialize old content, demanded proof that anyone could possibly enjoy it, and now you are mad that "Big Retroraiding" is out to get you. But it's everyone else that is about offering no concessions and being the game police. I didn't say no one enjoys this, I'm saying the proportion of people who do not want an automatic level-scaling system so they can spend hours smushing things 50 levels lower than them as their core game activity is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction. These people aren't zero, but they aren't something you should be building your core features for either, and sidekicking/mentoring should be a core feature in online RPGs produced these days. I'm pretty sure there is some way to still let the guy who has JUST GOTTA take his level 500 uberswordman and kill stuff in the newbie area all day do his thing, and also let normal people of mismatched level brackets still play together. In a thread devoted to making fun of antiquated concepts like the 40 man raid and the ~~HARD CORE~~ gaming mindset, here we are having this conversation
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May 18, 2015 21:39
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Both proportions are tiny, the majority doesn't give two fucks about obsolete content. You know the truth now, hth.
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May 18, 2015 21:41
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Because there's either just no way at all for characters to go back to content they've outleveled, or there's no interest due to lessened or nonexistent challenge/reward but yeah that's true
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May 18, 2015 21:56
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Flesh Forge posted:I didn't say no one enjoys this, I'm saying the proportion of people who do not want an automatic level-scaling system so they can spend hours smushing things 50 levels lower than them as their core game activity is a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction. These people aren't zero, but they aren't something you should be building your core features for either, and sidekicking/mentoring should be a core feature in online RPGs produced these days. I'm pretty sure there is some way to still let the guy who has JUST GOTTA take his level 500 uberswordman and kill stuff in the newbie area all day do his thing, and also let normal people of mismatched level brackets still play together. You haven't been arguing for sidekicking / mentoring, which is indeed rad and makes Rift very fun with low level friends, you have been arguing for making open world zones as challenging at max level as they were when you went through them the first time. There's no reason that a level twenty orc should take as long to kill when you are twenty levels above it as it did the first time you fought it solely for the sake of making it take longer to mine a copper or whatever. edit: Think of Mag'har / Kurenai rep in WoW, which at release required killing thousands and thousands of non-trivial ogres. In a system where they are the same difficulty no matter what level you are, in ten years it would take just as long to get Mag'har / Kurenai rep as it did on release just to get the cosmetic rewards. At least being able to stomp the hell out of mobs that were max-level in old expansions means that it isn't completely deprecated - new players can and do kill ogres for the mounts. Mormon Star Wars fucked around with this message at 22:01 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 21:56
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cthulhoo posted:Both proportions are tiny, the majority doesn't give two fucks about obsolete content. You know the truth now, hth. That's because the content itself is obsolete. if a game's content is designed to avoid becoming obsolete in the first place then a much larger percentage of the playerbase cares about it. The definition of obsolete content is subjective. However most players will agree that content is only obsolete when it stops being fun and there is no longer any sort of reward or system of progression within that content the people really care about. In other words, a lot of people will be interested in revisiting old zones in both open world and instanced content as long as the developer continues to give them fun things to do within it. Again, this should not be regarded as a replacement for brand new content but it certainly can act as a very fun addition to the game when designed well.
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May 18, 2015 21:58
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Mormon Star Wars posted:You haven't been arguing for sidekicking / mentoring, which is indeed rad and makes Rift very fun with low level friends, you have been arguing for making open world zones as challenging at max level as they were when you went through them the first time. There's no reason that a level twenty orc should take as long to kill when you are twenty levels above it as it did the first time you fought it solely for the sake of making it take longer to mine a copper or whatever. Yes, to be more clear I'd like to extend the concept of sidekick/mentor to remove monster levels entirely, so that everyone has equal incentive to go play any set of content that seems fun. Someday game devs will notice oh hey, this zone that we spent a twenty man-years on is something all of our players blow through in 20 minutes and never touch again, maybe we should provide a way to keep all that content viable and rewarding. Xavier434 posted:That's because the content itself is obsolete. if a game's content is designed to avoid becoming obsolete in the first place then a much larger percentage of the playerbase cares about it. this guy gets it e: An analogy that I like to bring up from time to time, it's totally OK for Batman to punch thugs at night in Gotham and still be a founding member of the Freedom Defenders (or whatever gay comic book club he was in no one cares). It's totally OK for Spider-Man to beat up guys in New York slums and still be an Avenger. Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 22:04 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 22:01
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Mormon Star Wars posted:You haven't been arguing for sidekicking / mentoring, which is indeed rad and makes Rift very fun with low level friends, you have been arguing for making open world zones as challenging at max level as they were when you went through them the first time. There's no reason that a level twenty orc should take as long to kill when you are twenty levels above it as it did the first time you fought it solely for the sake of making it take longer to mine a copper or whatever. True. that wouldn't be much fun. what is more fun than that is to allow characters to become stronger so that they can defeat these enemies more easily but not to the point where it becomes trivial. combine that with rewards scaling as well and then people become more interested and revisiting that content. especially when revisiting it with friends.
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May 18, 2015 22:01
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this slapfight is dumb and pointless, like wildstar raids
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May 18, 2015 22:03
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RottenK posted:this thread is dumb and pointless, like wildstar raids
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May 18, 2015 22:04
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Xavier434 posted:True. that wouldn't be much fun. what is more fun than that is to allow characters to become stronger so that they can defeat these enemies more easily but not to the point where it becomes trivial. combine that with rewards scaling as well and then people become more interested and revisiting that content. especially when revisiting it with friends. see also: oblivion :iamafag:
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May 18, 2015 22:05
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Mormon Star Wars posted:
Citing an example of really bad content does not make producing good content impossible.
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May 18, 2015 22:06
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I think the real takeaway here is that different people play the game in different ways and enjoy different things AND THAT IS NOT loving OK.
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May 18, 2015 22:08
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luckily companies who know their poo poo better than armchair game designers itt invent better rewards to engage people w/ obsolete content i.e. stuff like raiding with leashes instead of asking them to grind on some ~nontrivial~ ogre from a godforsaken 10 year old raid which is a cool and good thing imo Saxophone posted:I think the real takeaway here is that different people play the game in different ways and enjoy different things AND THAT IS NOT loving OK. yeah. "why people do thing, i dont like thing! thing boring to me! oh you do thing? well you a statistically unimportant minority, gently caress off "
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May 18, 2015 22:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z36Xadupn5c
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May 18, 2015 22:10
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Saxophone posted:I think the real takeaway here is that different people play the game in different ways and enjoy different things AND THAT IS NOT loving OK. It's perfectly okay, I play GW2 which scales people by zone they are entering and other MMOs which do not and both are fun. Some people are really mad that people are suspicious of the idea that it should take the same time and effort to grind ogres in 2015 that it took in 2005 though. cthulhoo posted:luckily companies who know their poo poo better than armchair game designers itt invent better rewards to engage people w/ obsolete content i.e. stuff like raiding with leashes instead of asking them to grind on some ~nontrivial~ ogre from a godforsaken 10 year old raid This is wildstar we are talking about here, they are always going to pick the hardcore option. In fact, in Wildstar, it is going to take longer to grind out ogres from 10 years ago and when you do Timetraveler is going to post a gif of someone cheating at pong.
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May 18, 2015 22:18
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Indeed. Let us assume raids age like fine wine *rides into sunset on a cloud of farts*
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May 18, 2015 22:23
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cthulhoo posted:Indeed. Let us assume raids age like fine wine *rides into sunset on a cloud of farts* *sheds a single tear*
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May 18, 2015 22:27
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May 18, 2015 22:28
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May 18, 2015 22:29
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tbh obsolete content discussion fits really well itt because the entire loving game is designed to be obsolete truly it is a brave new world of game development
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May 18, 2015 22:34
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is this an actual screenshot because every time I see this thing it unnerves me deeply
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May 18, 2015 22:52
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WarLocke posted:More MMOs should just drop pvp altogether. It's more than obvious by now that only an teeny tiny fraction of (MMO) players are into it, and the 'open-world pvp' canard is just a dog-whistle for ganking. This, along with the revolutionary idea of NOT splitting your player base in half is another thing FFXIV got right. quote:edit: Wildstar's pvp stuff never popped for me. For the brief period of time I played Wildstar PvP the, uh, Empire was way ahead of the Exiles. For the first week or so this meant they mercilessly destroyed the Exile in every match, and then after that it meant 6/10 of them were botting and got destroyed every time. The Moon Monster fucked around with this message at 23:21 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 23:17
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I think so. From the screenshots I've seen, you can give the anime animal people race godawful looking faces, including oversize cartoon eyes.
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May 18, 2015 23:18
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Carbine finally announced the "special surprise" that was supposed to follow after the long maintenance. I hope you guys are ready, this is going to turn the tables on the TROLLS and HATERS who are giving wildstar one star yelp reviews.quote:
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May 19, 2015 00:08
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The most upsetting thing about that is that they swiped a Dudeism for their lovely game.
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May 19, 2015 00:10
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That is the most underwhelming thing they could have come up with, it's amazing. I can't believe everyone's getting one too: doesn't seem very hardcore.
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May 19, 2015 00:11
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grats whoever called them making an emergency bullshit thing for their "surprise" after everyone figured out that the surprise was they're going F2P on Steam
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May 19, 2015 00:12
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Mormon Star Wars posted:Carbine finally announced the "special surprise" that was supposed to follow after the long maintenance. I hope you guys are ready, this is going to turn the tables on the TROLLS and HATERS who are giving wildstar one star yelp reviews. lol Thunderbro posted:grats whoever called them making an emergency bullshit thing for their "surprise" after everyone figured out that the surprise was they're going F2P on Steam that seemed like a silly theory when I first read it... not so much anymore
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May 19, 2015 00:13
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