|
John Smith posted:Is it still worthwhile to go cardcounting at blackjacks? Or do casinos catch on so quickly nowadays that it is hardly worth all the effort of studying up in the first place? I actually recently had a discussion about that with a cousin of mine who holds a PhD in computational statistics. The short version is no. The long version is no, because it's a huge pain in the rear end. You'd have to do it for hours with a perfect memory to have a prayer of getting any sort of edge unless you already know the shuffling methodology the casino uses.
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 15:50
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:59 |
|
|
The technique is actually quite easy but it doesn't work if they shuffle after every hand. (You don't need to memorize anything while, you just add and subtract to a count based on what cards you see.) They can also mess with it by messing with the payout for blackjack - it's unlikely to work anywhere. Getting kicked out of a casino for it would be a cool bucket list entry though.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 15:55
|
|
|
No Butt Stuff posted:by the time you read about anything you *can" make money on on the internet, it's something you *could have* made money on. Once they start advertising an exciting new investment on TV, the gold rush is already over. Except ironically for gold. Gold almost doubled in the years after those 'invest in gold' commercials started coming on.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 16:16
|
|
|
The price of silver is way down. May be time to invest! Copper actually is too, but that's because of Chinese supply crap and who the hell knows when it will rebound.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 16:49
|
|
|
Renegret posted:Much in the same way you *can* make money on bitcoins. I made about $1,700 in 1.5 weeks with a Diablo 3 AutoIt bot I made. I would buy gold for money, and it would automatically buy underpriced items for gold, which I'd resell for real money. Even cooler is it would do that while I was at work so I was double dipping my income/hr. I think there's also people who don't work beyond flipping Team Fortress 2 items. In that case you probably won't make a ton and unless you put a ton of time into it your money/hr would suck. You'd be better off starting a premium service to enable people to do transactions. I mean I guess what I'm saying is you can make money off video games if you aren't stupid about it, and realize that almost any job will pay a better hourly rate. If you are stupid about it then yes you'll likely lose money. Anything requiring much/any of an upfront monetary "investment" would probably be a stupid risk, for example.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:The technique is actually quite easy but it doesn't work if they shuffle after every hand. (You don't need to memorize anything while, you just add and subtract to a count based on what cards you see.) They can also mess with it by messing with the payout for blackjack - it's unlikely to work anywhere. Getting kicked out of a casino for it would be a cool bucket list entry though. Plus a single deck. Doing it in multi-hand blackjack makes it much harder. I've counted cards at blackjack on a single-deck table. I think I upped my bet on a good count from $5 to $20, won, and the dealer gave me a little scowl. Dealers actually count cards as they deal now, and will often shuffle if the count is good. If your bets always match a good count they'd likely have grounds to kick you out. Craps odds betting is one of the best ways to gamble if you want to gamble. Don't pass / odds has a ~1.40% house edge on the don't pass bet (which is where a smaller amount of money goes) and a 0.00% house edge on the odds-bet which is where most of your bet goes. The higher the odds-bet allowance (a multiple of your pass/don't pass bet) the better your winning potential and the less losing a pass/don't pass bet will hurt over time or something like that. In Craps your best bets are furthest from the dealer (they say this is intentionally psychological; who wants to make the dealer reach six feet away?). http://wizardofodds.com/games/craps/basics/#toc-TheOdds for more info. e: clarity Knyteguy fucked around with this message at 17:03 on May 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 17:00
|
|
|
Whenever you hear about people winning a lot of money with card counting, the part about finding and targeting the games whose rules that allowed them to benefit from it part is left out.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 19:24
|
|
|
John Smith posted:Is it still worthwhile to go cardcounting at blackjacks? Or do casinos catch on so quickly nowadays that it is hardly worth all the effort of studying up in the first place? All dealers nowadays count cards as well, if they see you doing it they will either shuffle the deck, or beat you up depending on where you play.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 19:54
|
|
|
Harry posted:Whenever you hear about people winning a lot of money with card counting, the part about finding and targeting the games whose rules that allowed them to benefit from it part is left out. They also tend to leave out the fact that even with card counting it's a pretty small edge and you will still see some sickening swings while grinding out those hundreds of hours to see your edge.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 20:01
|
|
|
Yeah look up the expected swings on what is it 3% edge max? You can literally play for 10,000 hours and be a huge loser and that isn't even horribly rare.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 20:20
|
|
|
FateFree posted:All dealers nowadays count cards as well, if they see you doing it they will either shuffle the deck, or beat you up depending on where you play. There are also rigged shoes casinos can buy. They tell the dealer what card is coming next.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 20:46
|
|
|
Cast_No_Shadow posted:Yeah look up the expected swings on what is it 3% edge max? You can literally play for 10,000 hours and be a huge loser and that isn't even horribly rare. You'd never be behind by random after 100-200k hands with a 3% edge, EV there with a 3% edge is 5200 bets and $0 would be about -10 SD
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 21:09
|
|
|
Seamonster posted:There are also rigged shoes casinos can buy. They tell the dealer what card is coming next. How does this change anything? I'm assuming we're talking about blackjack. The dealer's hand is forced, and knowing what cards players will get is irrelevant to them.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 21:14
|
|
|
BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:You'd never be behind by random after 100-200k hands with a 3% edge, EV there with a 3% edge is 5200 bets and $0 would be about -10 SD This could be right but it's going to be variance dependent. A 3% edge over a coin flip is different than a 3% edge over a dice roll with regards to expected return. But I also think the point being made was that the max edge on any possible count was 3%. So youd need a ton of volume to wait out those edge moments to exist (and then raise your bet appropriately).
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 21:17
|
|
|
MJBuddy posted:This could be right but it's going to be variance dependent. A 3% edge over a coin flip is different than a 3% edge over a dice roll with regards to expected return. that's using correct variance for blackjack, my point is that grinding out tiny edges with huge hand numbers is basically how all forms of gambling or gaming are won, be it the house or player v player, and 3% is a big edge relative to most non sucker games/bets. Bigger than that and people lose money so fast that it's obvious and they don't play very long.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 21:52
|
|
|
BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:that's using correct variance for blackjack, my point is that grinding out tiny edges with huge hand numbers is basically how all forms of gambling or gaming are won, be it the house or player v player, and 3% is a big edge relative to most non sucker games/bets. Bigger than that and people lose money so fast that it's obvious and they don't play very long. Slot machines in Vegas have a house edge of more than 5% and make up more than half the total gambling revenue that casinos make.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 22:03
|
|
|
Droo posted:Slot machines in Vegas have a house edge of more than 5% and make up more than half the total gambling revenue that casinos make. Wow that's way higher than I thought. Shows what I know autopiloting my rear end past those stupid things.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 22:10
|
|
|
Knyteguy posted:Plus a single deck. Doing it in multi-hand blackjack makes it much harder. Not really, the technique is exactly the same in a multi-deck game. In fact, multi-deck games are potentially more profitable for counters than single-deck games because the count can swing way higher in the player's favor with multiple decks than it can with a single deck. Also, single-deck games always pay 6:5 on blackjack, while multi-deck games still often pay 3:2. FateFree posted:All dealers nowadays count cards as well, if they see you doing it they will either shuffle the deck, or beat you up depending on where you play.  yeah ok buddy the dealer is going to quit what she's doing (ie robotically flinging cards and thinking about literally anything but card counting) to leap across the table and beat you up on camera.Seamonster posted:There are also rigged shoes casinos can buy. They tell the dealer what card is coming next.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 22:29
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
Unamuno posted:Not really, the technique is exactly the same in a multi-deck game. In fact, multi-deck games are potentially more profitable for counters than single-deck games because the count can swing way higher in the player's favor with multiple decks than it can with a single deck. Also, single-deck games always pay 6:5 on blackjack, while multi-deck games still often pay 3:2. Some single-decks pay 3:2 - http://railcity.com/ is one in Reno. According to my friend who plays a lot at least; I haven't played in a long time. I like dollar craps (10x or 100x), or dollar Wheel of Fortune slots if I'm going to gamble. I don't play the long game of trying to beat the system though. Bad with state money, maybe?: in our city a lady won Megabucks ($33,000,000) at that Rail City casino I posted a link to above, and it turned out she was on some welfare program. She was gambling with state aid money. I guess they made her pay back all of the money she had used from the state when she got her winnings, but the story is just old enough where I can't find details.
|
|
#
?
May 18, 2015 23:08
|
|
|
Seamonster posted:There are also rigged shoes casinos can buy. They tell the dealer what card is coming next. I don't know how this affects win rates at all, what's the dealer going to do? Not deal out the card?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 00:15
|
|
|
I swear BFC is like a PITR reunion forum. Knyteguy posted:Bad with state money, maybe?: in our city a lady won Megabucks ($33,000,000) at that Rail City casino I posted a link to above, and it turned out she was on some welfare program. She was gambling with state aid money. I guess they made her pay back all of the money she had used from the state when she got her winnings, but the story is just old enough where I can't find details. Good with money. No way did she get 33m from state aid.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
Leopold Stotch posted:So it burned down, fell over, then sank into the swamp? [2 pages later] I acknowledge and appreciate this joke! BWM story: I went on a cruise vacation with my husband last weekend and our onboard ship account ended up totalling nearly $800. That included 2 people to go on excursions at 3 ports, but still. So much alcohol was purchased and we didn't even finish the liquor we snuck on in shampoo bottles.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:19
|
|
|
drat Bananas posted:[2 pages later] I acknowledge and appreciate this joke! This one is a double whammy: bad with money, and raping the environment! The shampoo bottle trick is cool though, I'll have to remember that when I go on a cruise.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:35
|
|
|
Dessert Rose posted:I swear BFC is like a PITR reunion forum. What better place to brag about my poker success than a bad with money thread? Grossed ~$1.3mm at gambling since 2006 and my net worth is barely over $100k, none of which is in any sort of retirement account. BAD WITH MONEY!
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:42
|
|
|
At least jcarver seems to be doing alright for himself.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 02:48
|
|
|
silvergoose posted:At least jcarver seems to be doing alright for himself. Yep, i remember back in early 2008 i loaned him $10k on full tilt poker. He proceeded to RUN IT UP and pay me back within days, eventually becoming the greatest poker streamer of all time. 0% interest though so I'm bad with money (ok at friendship perhaps?). If only the multiple people who stiffed me on 5-fig loans from 2007-08 were as honorable (and skilled at poker) as jcarver. Have I mentioned that I am bad with money? Unamuno fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 19, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 03:03
|
|
|
Unamuno posted:Yep, i remember back in early 2008 i loaned him $10k on full tilt poker. He proceeded to RUN IT UP and pay me back within days, eventually becoming the greatest poker streamer of all time. 0% interest though so I'm bad with money. If only the multiple people who stiffed me on 5-fig loans from 2007-08 were as honorable (and skilled at poker) as jcarver. You have! You probably should have charged some interest.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 03:05
|
|
|
Looking at a family summer vacation. Wife picks out a couple homes to rent for a week in the Keys for around $2500-3000 for the week. I wasn't crazy about the idea so I came back with another option - a 4 night stay at the Ritz Carlton in Key Biscayne for $1400-$2000 depending on the selection. She gets upset because all I ever do is think about the price and I don't want to have fun. I'm like what I just showed you a few quotes for the loving Ritz which I think is a decent resort (never been but heard good things). Our bank account says we really can't afford either. Her response I just don't get. I'll post again late in Summer with the stupid financial decision I made.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 03:28
|
|
|
enraged_camel posted:The shampoo bottle trick is cool though, I'll have to remember that when I go on a cruise. Yeah, I just used those airline-approved pack of five 3.5oz bottles you can get in the toiletry aisle of the grocery store, but they have specific products for that purpose which I find hilarious. 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 03:31
|
|
|
zaurg posted:I'll post again late in Summer with the stupid financial decision I made. Was it getting married?
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 04:01
|
|
|
Unamuno posted:Yep, i remember back in early 2008 i loaned him $10k on full tilt poker. He proceeded to RUN IT UP and pay me back within days, eventually becoming the greatest poker streamer of all time. 0% interest though so I'm bad with money (ok at friendship perhaps?). If only the multiple people who stiffed me on 5-fig loans from 2007-08 were as honorable (and skilled at poker) as jcarver. This reminds me of one of the most fascinating things I've ever read, the tale of Michael Borovetz. (I'm not saying you're like him...if anything you're like the guys who Borovetz never paid back. But it made me think of it all the same.) e: I just won $900 this past weekend laying heavy odds on the pass line so I'm the 
pig slut lisa fucked around with this message at 05:22 on May 19, 2015 |
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 05:20
|
|
|
zaurg posted:I'll post again late in Summer with the stupid financial decision I made.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 05:21
|
|
|
lmao I didn't realize that was zaurg at first
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 05:23
|
|
|
pig slut lisa posted:This reminds me of one of the most fascinating things I've ever read, the tale of Michael Borovetz. Funny enough I actually loaned Borovetz, whom I had never met in my life, $100 at a tournament in LA because he looked like a tournament regular. Also because I am way too nice a person (did I mention I'm bad with money?). A few months later I spotted him at a tournament in Florida and, seizing a rare opportunity to make a raw power move, asked him if he had my money. And he gave me back the hundo! GOOD WITH MONEY! Congrats on winning at craps. I broke my 3-years-no-craps streak a couple months ago when a buddy was in town for March Madness. Won $400 betting 10x odds on pass lines and come bets, all of it on my buddy's roll. See ya in another 3 years (or better, decades), craps.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 05:36
|
|
|
gently caress off, zaurg. You and everyone knows full well that you get off on making poo poo posts and revelling in the subsequent dogpile. Have you considered making a banme thread? I heard it's the ultimate rush! Everyone wins! tl;dr: gently caress off, zaurg
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
Divorcing a spending addict when you're at zero or negative is much better than divorcing once you've cleaned up you're behavior and they're still an addict.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 06:03
|
|
|
zaurg posted:Looking at a family summer vacation. Wife picks out a couple homes to rent for a week in the Keys for around $2500-3000 for the week. I wasn't crazy about the idea so I came back with another option - a 4 night stay at the Ritz Carlton in Key Biscayne for $1400-$2000 depending on the selection. She gets upset because all I ever do is think about the price and I don't want to have fun. I'm like what I just showed you a few quotes for the loving Ritz which I think is a decent resort (never been but heard good things). Our bank account says we really can't afford either. Her response I just don't get. I'll post again late in Summer with the stupid financial decision I made. I hope someday I can have a retarded pussy of a husband who badmouths me on the internet to people who hate him 
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 12:45
|
|
|
pig slut lisa posted:lmao I didn't realize that was zaurg at first lol me too. haha. Glad I checked the thread today.
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 13:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 14:59 |
|
|
Ignore Zaurg guys. Today's reddit roundup is wonderful. Everything you need to know about this one is in the title. $10,000 loan, been paying almost double the minimum payment for two years, debt not shrinking. What can I do? Just.. loving hell quote:I am on a study abroad trip in Japan for the next 2 weeks. I had saved up money for eating and everything, but a few days before I left on the trip my transmission on my car went out and cost me all of the money I had saved. I am in Japan with other students and a few of them have let me borrow a little money to eat, but they arn't going to let me borrow anymore. I don't have anyone in the states that can send me money. Any ideas on how I can come up with a little bit of money for food? "Stress bought a brand new car" Accidental Lease!
|
|
#
?
May 19, 2015 14:17
|
|
