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1st AD posted:Sting jobbed to Triple H in 2015 so dumb things happen all the time, pretty sure dumb luck and inertia was what fueled WCW's rise and fall. 'Dumb Luck and Inertia" should have been the title to Bischoff's book.
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May 18, 2015 23:53
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:The lesson of WCW's demise seem to be "for gods sake you need to have somebody in charge", "things need to make sense and matter" "don't ever let anyone write creative control into their contract" and "don't let wrestlers who are actively wrestling in a promotion handle booking too" Kevin Sullivan was active until mid-1997, but he also wasn't god tier in kayfabe like Nash. I think the lesson is "don't let Kevin Nash book himself."
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May 19, 2015 00:18
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Luigi Thirty posted:Kevin Sullivan was active until mid-1997, but he also wasn't god tier in kayfabe like Nash. I think the lesson is "don't let Kevin Nash book himself." No, because Jeff Jarrett and Triple H both prove the rule. Don't let active wrestlers handle booking or have creative control.
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May 19, 2015 02:10
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rotinaj posted:No, because Jeff Jarrett and Triple H both prove the rule. Don't let active wrestlers handle booking or have creative control. Yeah it's impossible to be objective when your immediate and future paydays are affected by the decisions you make as a booker. Just don't loving do it.
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May 19, 2015 02:17
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Not particularly WCW, but on booking rules, one should also never let whoever is booker book their own children/siblings.
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May 19, 2015 02:37
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It's kind of amazing the string of main events that preceded Vince Russo's first stint in WCW. 1999's Pre-Russo main events: 1. Goldberg vs. Scott Hall in a Stun Gun Ladder match (no title defense, 1 run-in on main event) 2. Hollywood Hogan vs. Ric Flair (David Flair run in, turns on father, uses stun gun) 3. Hollywood Hogan vs. Ric Flair (David Flair and Arn Anderson run-in in a First Blood Steel Cage Match where the crooked ref refuses to stop the match when Flair bleeds but counts a pinfall resulting from a figure four after Flair uses a tire iron on Hogan) 4. DDP v. Sting vs. Hogan vs. Flair (DDP wins after special guest referee attacks Flair) 5. Kevin Nash v. DDP (run-in and Dusty Finish, match restarted, another run-in) 6. Kevin Nash v. Randy Savage (match ends in DQ following a run-in) 7. Randy Savage & Sid Vicious vs. Kevin Nash and Sting (world title changes in tag match) 8. Hogan vs. Nash retirement match 9. Sting vs. Hogan (three run-ins, heel turn, an unconscious man made to submit) Just for contrast, here are the WWF 1999 PPV main events, WITH Russo: 1. Vince McMahon wins the Royal Rumble with copious interference and very little time in the ring 2. Austin vs. McMahon ends when Big Show debuts and throws Austin through the cage 3. Austin vs. Rock (interference banned by Shawn Michaels and this actually works) 4. Austin vs. Rock (guest referee interferes) 5. Austin vs. Undertaker (guest referee interferes) 6. Austin vs. Vince & Shane in a ladder match (someone raises the briefcase when Austin goes for it) 7. Austin vs. Undertaker first blood (two run-ins) 8. Austin vs. Mankind vs. HHH (I guess Chyna interferes?) 9. Triple H/Rock/Mankind/Kane/Big Show/Bulldog (referee interferes) Everyone interfered all of the time in both federations, but (at least at the top) it's kind of amazing how relatively coherent the storyline on WWF's part was. Except at the end of the summer when Vince turns face again and wins the belt for a day.
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May 19, 2015 03:59
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Luigi Thirty posted:Kevin Sullivan was active until mid-1997, but he also wasn't god tier in kayfabe like Nash. I think the lesson is "don't let Kevin Nash book himself." People sometimes forget that Gedo's an active wrestler because he doesn't generally wrestle on the big cards, but he and Jado won the best booker award for three years straight now and he's content to book himself as a low card guy that does a lot of comedy spots. It doesn't have to be disastrous.
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May 19, 2015 06:56
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I mean, he also booked himself to be the manager behind the New Top Guy. But he's been great in that role and I love it so that isn't a knock against him at all. Vince was also great as an active performer during Austin's run.
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May 19, 2015 06:59
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quote:3. Hollywood Hogan vs. Ric Flair (David Flair and Arn Anderson run-in in a First Blood Steel Cage Match where the crooked ref refuses to stop the match when Flair bleeds but counts a pinfall resulting from a figure four after Flair uses a tire iron on Hogan)
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May 19, 2015 11:45
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Edge & Christian posted:1. Goldberg vs. Scott Hall in a Stun Gun Ladder match (no title defense, 1 run-in on main event) Why would there be a title defense? And it wasn't so much a stun gun as a cattle prod. Damnit WCW
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May 19, 2015 15:02
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rotinaj posted:No, because Jeff Jarrett and Triple H both prove the rule. Don't let active wrestlers handle booking or have creative control. Yep Ric Flair was pretty good at it.
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May 19, 2015 15:13
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bobkatt013 posted:Yep Ric Flair was pretty good at it. IIRC Flair was a figurehead if you mean when he "had" the book in the early 90s.
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May 19, 2015 15:17
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Luigi Thirty posted:IIRC Flair was a figurehead if you mean when he "had" the book in the early 90s. He had it in 89 and then the first part of 94.
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May 19, 2015 15:29
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It's impossible to evaluate Flair as a booker. Most guys in that position book themselves like they're the greatest wrestler of all time. Flair arguably is the greatest wrestler of all time.
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May 19, 2015 15:30
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Did everyone see Scott Hall being escorted out of yet another event for being drunk/high off his rear end?
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May 21, 2015 01:01
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May 21, 2015 05:09
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Kevin Sullivan said that Tony Skee-A-Vonie was up for the position that Eric Bischoff got that put him in charge of WCW. Huh? Then again he also said Hulk Hogan's best year made him $26 million in salary, bonuses, PPV points, and 50% of everyone else's merchandise. That seems like a lot.
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May 22, 2015 19:13
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Luigi Thirty posted:Kevin Sullivan said that Tony Skee-A-Vonie was up for the position that Eric Bischoff got that put him in charge of WCW. Huh? Both things sound about right to me
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May 22, 2015 19:32
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Sounds like the Hulkster was pretty underpaid brother
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May 22, 2015 19:39
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It's known that Hogan had a 5 million guaranteed deal, something like 25% of all PPV revenue above average and 25% of house shows he appeared on, along with lord only knows what. Given that 1997 was the most profitable single year in the history of wrestling (at the time) and 1998 made even more money than that, I wouldn't be surprised at all if all those bonuses added up to 20 million bucks one of those years.
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May 22, 2015 19:44
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Luigi Thirty posted:Kevin Sullivan said that Tony Skee-A-Vonie was up for the position that Eric Bischoff got that put him in charge of WCW. Huh? He was, and he was convinced he had it as Bischoffwas no competition. This led to him hating both Bischoff (for beating him) and JR (for in his mind not supporting him). Honestly after Bill Watts they weren't looking for another "wrestling guy" and Eric was smart enough to present himself otherwise.
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May 22, 2015 20:10
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He got 50% of everyone else's merch? 
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May 22, 2015 20:10
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1st AD posted:He got 50% of everyone else's merch? Negotiated down from 65% iirc.
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May 22, 2015 20:13
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triplexpac posted:Both things sound about right to me Yeah, considering how much bands, celebs, and Michael Buffer were paid just for basically one appearance (or in Buffer's case basically a minute a week), I absolutely believe Hogan getting giant money for at least one year of their existence.
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May 22, 2015 20:15
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There was something about how the merchandise was split within NWO members as well. One of the reasons Hall and Nash started pushing for Jericho to join the NWO was that they would have gotten a wee bump in the wallet with how well his merch was selling.
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May 22, 2015 20:25
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Wasn't Jericho the one who said that when his girlfriend bought his action figure, the receipt said it was a Hogan or Sting doll? Meaning they would get the royalties?
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May 22, 2015 20:26
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My memory is hazy on this, but wasn't there something where they were doing a poll and if you voted for Flair it actually gave 2 votes to Hogan?
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May 22, 2015 20:27
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Halloween Jack posted:Wasn't Jericho the one who said that when his girlfriend bought his action figure, the receipt said it was a Hogan or Sting doll? Meaning they would get the royalties? triplexpac posted:My memory is hazy on this, but wasn't there something where they were doing a poll and if you voted for Flair it actually gave 2 votes to Hogan? Yes to both.
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May 22, 2015 20:30
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haljordan posted:Did everyone see Scott Hall being escorted out of yet another event for being drunk/high off his rear end? Yeah, and it's pretty sad. He seemed to be doing so well. I mean, you could kind of see this coming when he moved out of DDP's place. I remember someone asking DDP about it and he was like "Oh yeah it's totally cool bro he's doing great", and you could tell that he didn't believe it. I think it was Nash that said that if things don't work out with DDP then nothing will.
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May 22, 2015 21:32
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Halloween Jack posted:Wasn't Jericho the one who said that when his girlfriend bought his action figure, the receipt said it was a Hogan or Sting doll? Meaning they would get the royalties? I doubt this actually had anything to do with royalties.
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May 23, 2015 00:16
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Hogan never made more in a year than the 12 million Austin was making at his peak.
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May 23, 2015 00:49
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MassRafTer posted:Hogan never made more in a year than the 12 million Austin was making at his peak. Is that $12 million figure including merchandise?
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May 23, 2015 03:51
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Rodney the Piper posted:Is that $12 million figure including merchandise? Yes.
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May 23, 2015 03:54
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Yeah that twenty-six million figure sounded really suspect. Didn't his wife only get like eight million from the divorce, which represented most of The Hulkster's liquid cash?
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May 23, 2015 07:13
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I like his insights into booking WCW but any time he comes up with numbers they're pulled out of his rear end. It makes everything else suspect.
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May 23, 2015 07:24
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To be fair to Sullivan, he had nothing at all to do with contracts. That was all JJ and Eric.
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May 23, 2015 09:53
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Does hulk hogan not have a history of bad business and cocaine mountains that may have put a dent in his finances prior to the divorce?
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May 23, 2015 10:20
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:Does hulk hogan not have a history of bad business and cocaine mountains that may have put a dent in his finances prior to the divorce? I don't recall hearing about any issues until God laid some heavy poo poo on Nick Hogan's best friend and Terry had to pick up the tab.
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May 23, 2015 10:53
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DrVenkman posted:Yeah, and it's pretty sad. He seemed to be doing so well. I mean, you could kind of see this coming when he moved out of DDP's place. I remember someone asking DDP about it and he was like "Oh yeah it's totally cool bro he's doing great", and you could tell that he didn't believe it. I think it was Nash that said that if things don't work out with DDP then nothing will. On the flip side is Jake still doing well? He always looks so happy now in the photo's i had seen. Hall is a really sad case especially as everyone has pretty much given up on reforming him now.
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May 23, 2015 11:45
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Memento posted:Yeah that twenty-six million figure sounded really suspect. Didn't his wife only get like eight million from the divorce, which represented most of The Hulkster's liquid cash? You mean a professional wrestler might not have saved his money wisely after his peak years????
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May 23, 2015 13:51
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