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Series DD Funding posted:The paper said they were skeptical a minimum wage increase would significantly boost the economy. In that case, the increased spending demand of minwage workers must be balanced out somewhere else through higher prices. It's basic economics. If by basic you mean overly simplistic to the point where it's simple enough to be an example used in middle school economics class sure, unfortunately that's not very helpful in explaining actual real world phenomena.
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May 19, 2015 18:43
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Series DD Funding posted:The paper said they were skeptical a minimum wage increase would significantly boost the economy. In that case, the increased spending demand of minwage workers must be balanced out somewhere else through higher prices. It's basic economics. ah yes basic economics, *pulls statements out of butt, smears around walls, floor*
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May 19, 2015 18:43
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i swear every time finishes something with "it's basic economics!" the thing they said is stupid
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May 19, 2015 18:44
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Basic bitch economics.
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May 19, 2015 18:49
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baw posted:i swear every time finishes something with "it's basic economics!" the thing they said is stupid So it's in the same category as starting a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..."?
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May 19, 2015 18:54
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Alter Ego posted:So it's in the same category as starting a sentence with "I'm not racist, but..."?
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May 19, 2015 18:56
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a shameful boehner posted:Again, did you even read the article that you linked? Production does not significantly increase. You have a set of workers whos demand increases. What happens to prices, and what happens to other workers?
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May 19, 2015 19:01
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Bernie Sanders is elected on the promise of giving a $200 xbox one voucher to every goon. However, Microsoft finds they can't produce any more. What happens to the price? (3 points)
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May 19, 2015 19:01
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Is it just me, or is the GOP field kind of... Crowded this year? Like, this has gotta be near historic for how many people are going to be running for a modern, mainstream election, no? Every time someone else announces, I get slightly excited to drink my way through the debates.
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May 19, 2015 19:05
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It's important to keep in mind that a lot of voters really do consider suffering to be inherently good. You wouldn't really say Puritans voted against their interests when they refused to celebrate Christmas and other such things.
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May 19, 2015 19:06
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Series DD Funding posted:Production does not significantly increase. You have a set of workers whos demand increases. What happens to prices, and what happens to other workers? 1. Businesses see an increase in aggregate demand. 2. Businesses hire more workers to meet the demand. 3. Everyone is better off. Prices may increase, slightly; increased purchasing power from workers allows them to still target businesses offering the most competitive pricing on goods. "Prices" would only rise if a corresponding good is completely inelastic and supply constrained. The only thing I can think of where that's relevant is housing and only in certain cities. You're acting like just because people now make a living wage suddenly all goods in a consumer economy become supply constrained. This is not true. ex post facho fucked around with this message at 19:10 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 19:07
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Series DD Funding posted:Production does not significantly increase. You have a set of workers whos demand increases. What happens to prices, and what happens to other workers? 2 possibilities: If the worker remains profitable at the new increased wage, the company will still employ them, pay them more, and take less in profit. Since corporate profits are currently high and corporations are holding cash in offshore reserves to avoid taxes, I expect them to be able to pay their workers slightly more. The second possibility, of course, is the one you want me to say: that a small increase in the wage for a portion of their workers will send the company spiraling into bankruptcy, leaving them no choice but to fire the workers. Instead of, you know, investing slightly more into their productivity to recoup the higher wages or raising prices very slightly.
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May 19, 2015 19:11
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Cantorsdust posted:2 possibilities: If the worker remains profitable at the new increased wage, the company will still employ them, pay them more, and take less in profit. Since corporate profits are currently high and corporations are holding cash in offshore reserves to avoid taxes, I expect them to be able to pay their workers slightly more. I didn't say anything about the companies. The paper said they were skeptical a minwage increase would be stimulating. If companies don't raise production and demand increases, what happens to prices?
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May 19, 2015 19:15
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Series DD Funding posted:Bernie Sanders is elected on the promise of giving a $200 xbox one voucher to every goon. However, Microsoft finds they can't produce any more. What happens to the price? (3 points) I didn't realize this was part of Bernie Sanders' platform.
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May 19, 2015 19:17
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Series DD Funding posted:I didn't say anything about the companies. The paper said they were skeptical a minwage increase would be stimulating. If companies don't raise production and demand increases, what happens to prices? Prices stay within 1-2% of where they were before the minimum wage increase? Tell me, what do YOU think happens to prices, since this seems to be the most pressing concern that you hold?
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May 19, 2015 19:21
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Hey guys I'm gonna make a billion dollars selling my new widget by only making one of them and charging a billion dollars for it brb
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May 19, 2015 19:23
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a shameful boehner posted:Prices stay within 1-2% of where they were before the minimum wage increase? Prices increase, and the workers making more than the new minwage are harmed (unless the increase reverberates and lets them get a raise as well).
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May 19, 2015 19:25
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How much do prices increase and for what goods, specifically? How does the increase in those specific goods prices hurt the workers making more than the new minimum wage? You can't just say "workers making more are harmed". How are they harmed?
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May 19, 2015 19:28
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a shameful boehner posted:How much do prices increase and for what goods, specifically? How does the increase in those specific goods prices hurt the workers making more than the new minimum wage? The increase in prices means they have less buying power now. As far as the magnitude of the increase, no idea. One study from the minwage thread estimated a $15 minwage would cause Walmart's prices to increase 11%, as one data point.
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May 19, 2015 19:30
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Can everyone stop replying to the obvious troll? This is the primary thread, take this poo poo somewhere else.
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May 19, 2015 19:30
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Series DD Funding posted:Production does not significantly increase. You have a set of workers whos demand increases. What happens to prices, and what happens to other workers? We really need to institute a rule that you have to post a transcript showing you passed Econ 101 with a C or better before posting about the minimum wage. ASDF32 will need to post his 5th grade completion certificate as well.
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May 19, 2015 19:31
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Series DD Funding posted:Prices increase, and the workers making more than the new minwage are harmed (unless the increase reverberates and lets them get a raise as well). This would only happen if they didn't care about losing market share, which typically isn't the case. Again you are tackling this issue using middle school level economic models, this is not how things in the real world work. Where I work when pricing products the #1 concern is always gaining or retaining market share, profit margin is a secondary concern. In most cases if you tried to run a business concerned only about profit margin rather than your competition you aren't going to do very well.
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May 19, 2015 19:32
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Hey guys remember when Australia's economy collapsed since their minimum wage is over $16 an hour? I mean it did collapse right? Otherwise Series DD Funding would be talking out of their rear end like a crazy person.
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May 19, 2015 19:33
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BougieBitch posted:Can everyone stop replying to the obvious troll? This is the primary thread, take this poo poo somewhere else. Gee, if only there were a way to make people stop replying. Maybe by stopping anything they could reply to. Some sort of... posting restriction. But I'm just daydreaming here.
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May 19, 2015 19:35
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Evil Fluffy posted:Hey guys remember when Australia's economy collapsed since their minimum wage is over $16 an hour? I mean it did collapse right? Otherwise Series DD Funding would be talking out of their rear end like a crazy person. Australia is the butt of the earth, and elected a literal butt, & New Zealand made a nonce their prime minister. That said anybody saying minimum wage hurts business should be forced to be sent back in time to the Lochner era to rot in the streets.
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May 19, 2015 19:36
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Raskolnikov38 posted:We really need to institute a rule that you have to post a transcript showing you passed Econ 101 with a C or better before posting about the minimum wage. Econ 101 is still poo poo. They need to have taken intermediate macroeconomics so they can actually explain what an IS/LM model is and things like sticky prices/wages.
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May 19, 2015 19:37
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Series DD Funding posted:The increase in prices means they have less buying power now. As far as the magnitude of the increase, no idea. One study from the minwage thread estimated a $15 minwage would cause Walmart's prices to increase 11%, as one data point. Yeah, but federal minimum wage right now is $7.25, minimum wage workers would more than double their income. If my income doubles and prices only rise 11% my purchasing power is increased, not diminished. Also, as an aside, the idea that anyone who works hard to provide for themselves, and possibly others, deserves less than $15 an hour is ludicrous and heartless.
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May 19, 2015 19:39
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There is an entire thread for bad economics in posting about minimum wage that is active right now!
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May 19, 2015 19:40
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Is it just me, or is the GOP field kind of... Crowded this year? Like, this has gotta be near historic for how many people are going to be running for a modern, mainstream election, no? The GOP needs a tournament bracket for debates, complete with seeding and everything. It'd be more entertaining the the NCAA tournament.
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May 19, 2015 19:45
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axeil posted:Econ 101 is still poo poo. They need to have taken intermediate macroeconomics so they can actually explain what an IS/LM model is and things like sticky prices/wages. It is but these idiots posting about the min wage recently have made it abundantly clear they haven't even set foot inside a 101 class.
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May 19, 2015 19:49
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Evil Fluffy posted:Hey guys remember when Australia's economy collapsed since their minimum wage is over $16 an hour? I mean it did collapse right? Otherwise Series DD Funding would be talking out of their rear end like a crazy person. America is Something Else Entirely, it's an Exceptional country. You see, studies on mud people outside the USA have no bearing on the true children of God, Americans.
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May 19, 2015 19:51
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Sure looks like a lot of people are having wayy too much fun reading way too much into everyone else's arguments the past day or so. 
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May 19, 2015 19:58
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Hillary will fix this situation by plunging the country into further deficit spending.
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May 19, 2015 20:03
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An Angry Bug posted:Gee, if only there were a way to make people stop replying. Maybe by stopping anything they could reply to. Some sort of... posting restriction. But I'm just daydreaming here. I'll vote for whoever makes Fishmech a D&D mod for life.
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May 19, 2015 20:19
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I mean, dudes not entirely wrong. It's very possible to imagine a situation in which the minimum wage rises but economic growth does not, leading to higher inflation. The simplest and most probable cause would be that workers who saw their real wages increase would, rather than spend that money, turn around and pay off debt or save it. It's not really unheard of - one of the reasons economic growth has been so slow is because of that very fact, people are paying off debt and saving rather than buying poo poo.
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May 19, 2015 20:23
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That said, those are both positive outcomes and should be sought after. We're light years away from inflation being a "problem" (idk maybe a lot of hedge fund managers posting itt) for the vast majority of people and I think the market can bear a little more inflation even if Wall Street will be howling about it.
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May 19, 2015 20:26
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uncurable mlady posted:I mean, dudes not entirely wrong. It's very possible to imagine a situation in which the minimum wage rises but economic growth does not, leading to higher inflation. The simplest and most probable cause would be that workers who saw their real wages increase would, rather than spend that money, turn around and pay off debt or save it. It's not really unheard of - one of the reasons economic growth has been so slow is because of that very fact, people are paying off debt and saving rather than buying poo poo. Wages have stagnated, people aren't saving, they're spending more now or the same as they were before, the prices of everything has gone up especially food.
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May 19, 2015 20:26
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Nonsense posted:Wages have stagnated, people aren't saving, they're spending more now or the same as they were before, the prices of everything has gone up especially food. Wages have stagnated since the 70s, kiddo. People are saving and paying down debt in a way they weren't before 2008. In fact, people are spending a lot less of their income on debt servicing because they don't have as much any more and aren't taking on new debt for a variety of reasons. http://equitablegrowth.org/news/slicing-dicing-u-s-savings-rate/ http://www.businessinsider.com/debt-service-ratio-for-prior-expansion-2015-4
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May 19, 2015 20:32
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uncurable mlady posted:Wages have stagnated since the 70s, kiddo. People are saving and paying down debt in a way they weren't before 2008. In fact, people are spending a lot less of their income on debt servicing because they don't have as much any more and aren't taking on new debt for a variety of reasons. Please stop using loving kiddo, you're not fishmech. Thank you for the links, further reading ahoy!
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May 19, 2015 20:35
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Obviously, the people that aren't doing that are the ones making at or near the median income because they don't have enough money to. It's reasonable to assume, however, that individuals who are currently making minimum wage and living paycheck to paycheck (or not) wouldn't simply start spending more money in order to continue living paycheck to paycheck; they might increase their debt service to free up more money later down the line, they might save more money so they have a cash cushion in case of emergencies, etc. etc.
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May 19, 2015 20:35
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